A question about Ukraine.

[F1fan]

Exactly this tone I meant
I am not interested in that

Jumping to false conclusions, just trying to find faults in others. Well you failed this time. Good luck next time.

So what you really mean is that KenS is wrong and Biden didn't start the war with Ukraine as he wrote?

As I said "power games" what Putin does. And don't pretend US and NATO are innocent not playing power games, I don't buy that

Do you think NATO and the USA is wrong to be strategic about national and global security? You call it games, and that isn't a bad way to put it if you aren't being cynical. But I suspect you are being cynical as if the US and NATO is doing it wrong some how. Of course you are being vague, so we are guessing. Maybe you haven't thought it all through and are confused.

Exactly, here only come the dollars. Don't misinterpret, and on purpose attribute your negativity to my words. Some people earn hoards of money selling the weapons to them to kill people

Do you prefer weapons be made for free? You seem discontent with this war and how weapons have to be used and replaced. Do you have a better solution for NATO and the USA? Let's hear it. Anyone can complain.

 

[JIMMY12345]

So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?

Having dead Americans. Ukrainians or any other nationality (including Russian's) is immoral and politically unacceptable. We live in civilized times and should be using AI and robotics to fight wars not humans.The Russian Government is composed of animals ready to invade an innocent country and risk there own citizens. That's the difference.Financing arms is just printing money.Sending troops is sending young lives to be maimed and die.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Was France declaring war with England when they sent the US (English colonies) ships, cannons, and other supplies in the Revolutionary War that we fought against England?

Without a doubt. England and France were at war pretty much continuously for centuries. I think French forces actually fought alongside American revolutionary forces? The French navy was certainly directly involved.

 

[Wandering Monk]

So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?

You mean kinda like American supplying Britain against the Nazis before we entered WWII? Yeah, a real problem. Screw democracy!

 

[ajay0]

What lazy cynicism. The Russians are killing, raping and torturing thousands of innocent people, and 4 million have been displaced from their homes, and you say it's about "dollars".

It's about Putin trying to rebuild the Soviet empire by conquest and about Ukraine, supported by Europe and the US, trying to stop him.

It is costing tens of billions of "dollars".

Russian invasion of Ukraine started after U.S-Nato reneged on all its promises to Gorbachev to 'not expand an inch east', and came all the way east to the borders of Russia, incorporating new east european nations to NATO and creating new markets for its weapons from the western military-industrial complex capitalists.

American wmd placed alongside the borders can enable U.S-NATO to have a strategic military advantage over Russia.

This is the reason why the Russians started the invasion, taking into account its security concerns.

If U.S-Nato was sincere about serving the cause of Ukraine's security, they should have backed off tactfully from taking Ukraine into Nato upon Russian warnings of invasion, but they did not.

Unfortunately, the war can potentially develop into a nuclear holocaust wiping out the U.S., Russia and Europe and creating global complications for the rest of the world.

A weak UN is also at fault for not proactively creating a buffer zone between these nuclear-armed adversaries.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Russian invasion of Ukraine started after U.S-Nato reneged on all its promises to Gorbachev to 'not expand an inch east', and came all the way east to the borders of Russia, incorporating new east european nations to NATO and creating new markets for its weapons from the western military-industrial complex capitalists.

American wmd placed alongside the borders can enable U.S-NATO to have a strategic military advantage over Russia.

This is the reason why the Russians started the invasion, taking into account its security concerns.

If U.S-Nato was sincere about serving the cause of Ukraine's security, they should have backed off tactfully from taking Ukraine into Nato upon Russian warnings of invasion, but they did not.

Unfortunately, the war can potentially develop into a nuclear holocaust wiping out the U.S., Russia and Europe and creating global complications for the rest of the world.

A weak UN is also at fault for not proactively creating a buffer zone between these nuclear-armed adversaries.

They lost and we won. They are trying to reverse that. They won't admit they lost. As for the morality of that, there is none. It is realpolitik and about power.

 

[ajay0]

They lost and we won. They are trying to reverse that. They won't admit they lost. As for the morality of that, there is none. It is realpolitik and about power.

I am not bothered about some tribe's wins and losses, but about peace, and that too, not the peace of the graveyard.

Unfortunately we have not invested enough in creating a matured international leadership capable of seeing the bigger picture and acting accordingly.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I am not bothered about some tribe's wins and losses, but about peace, and that too, not the peace of the graveyard.

Unfortunately we have not invested enough in creating a matured international leadership capable of seeing the bigger picture and acting accordingly.

Who is that "we"?

 

[ajay0]

Who is that "we"?

Humanity without man-made boundaries and imaginary labels.


Humanity with man-made boundaries and imaginary labels obviously find it harder to see the bigger picture as they are trapped in their mental spectrum, and thereby get into trouble more often than not due to consequent poor judgement.

"We" help stretch the mental boundaries of those stuck in their mental spectrum. But it is a thankless job as "we" don't get any counselling fees for showing a different perspective and bringing in peace.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Humanity without man-made boundaries and imaginary labels.


Humanity with man-made boundaries and imaginary labels obviously find it harder to see the bigger picture as they are trapped in their mental spectrum, and thereby get into trouble more often than not due to consequent poor judgement.

"We" help stretch the mental boundaries of those stuck in their mental spectrum. But it is a thankless job as "we" don't get any counselling fees for showing a different perspective and bringing in peace.

Noble idea, hard to do in practice. But in principle I am not against your "we" and I might even be one of the "we".

 

[Secret Chief]

As I understand it, Biden pulled out of the Afghan war to then start another one in Ukraine.

As I understand it:

"The United States Armed Forces completed their withdrawal from Afghanistan on 30 August 2021, marking the end of the 20-year long war in Afghanistan. In February 2020, the Trump administration and the Taliban, without the participation of the then Afghan government, signed the Doha Agreement, which stipulated fighting restrictions for both the US and the Taliban, and provided for the withdrawal of all NATO forces from Afghanistan in return for the Taliban's counter-terrorism commitments."

- Withdrawal of United States troops from Afghanistan (2020–2021) - Wikipedia

 

[Koldo]

Russian invasion of Ukraine started after U.S-Nato reneged on all its promises to Gorbachev to 'not expand an inch east', and came all the way east to the borders of Russia, incorporating new east european nations to NATO and creating new markets for its weapons from the western military-industrial complex capitalists.

American wmd placed alongside the borders can enable U.S-NATO to have a strategic military advantage over Russia.

This is the reason why the Russians started the invasion, taking into account its security concerns.

If U.S-Nato was sincere about serving the cause of Ukraine's security, they should have backed off tactfully from taking Ukraine into Nato upon Russian warnings of invasion, but they did not.

Unfortunately, the war can potentially develop into a nuclear holocaust wiping out the U.S., Russia and Europe and creating global complications for the rest of the world.

A weak UN is also at fault for not proactively creating a buffer zone between these nuclear-armed adversaries.

The NATO didn't go further east through military conquests though. So why did more and more countries want to join NATO rather than remaining neutral?

 

[Secret Chief]

We live in civilized times and should be using AI and robotics to fight wars not humans.

Civilised times would not involve wars.
Would the AI/robots not be killing humans then, during this civilised war that you suggest?

The Russian Government is composed of animals ready to invade an innocent country and risk there own citizens.

The only animals that invade innocent countries are humans.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Russian invasion of Ukraine started after U.S-Nato reneged on all its promises to Gorbachev to 'not expand an inch east', and came all the way east to the borders of Russia,

was or was that not in writing though

 

[amorphous_constellation]

So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?

Was it a 40 billion dollar bill that got bipartisan senate approval? I have nothing against poor ukraine, but we now have huge tent cities in america. Maybe the money could have solved that a bit? Or maybe produced all the high speed rail you could ever want?

You know I heard that before all of this, zelensky wanted to negotiate the donbass issues with something called the minsk 2 agreement, but perhaps nationalist elements didn't want him to do that. If that is true, that he was elected with the pretense of making peace, but never got to, then I don't know if something smells right

 

[Kenny]

As I understand it:

"The United States Armed Forces completed their withdrawal from Afghanistan on 30 August 2021, marking the end of the 20-year long war in Afghanistan. In February 2020, the Trump administration and the Taliban, without the participation of the then Afghan government, signed the Doha Agreement, which stipulated fighting restrictions for both the US and the Taliban, and provided for the withdrawal of all NATO forces from Afghanistan in return for the Taliban's counter-terrorism commitments."

- Withdrawal of United States troops from Afghanistan (2020–2021) - Wikipedia

As part of the Doha Agreement, the Trump administration agreed to an initial reduction of US forces from 13,000 to 8,600 troops by July 2020, followed by a complete withdrawal by 1 May 2021, if the Taliban kept its commitments.[10]

Resumption of insurgency[edit]
See also: 6 March 2020 Kabul shooting, Kabul gurdwara attack, May 2020 Afghanistan attacks, June 2020 Afghanistan attacks, July 2020 Afghanistan attacks, August 2020 Afghanistan attacks, September 2020 Afghanistan attacks, October 2020 Afghanistan attacks, and Russian bounty program
After the signing of the Doha Agreement on February 29, 2020, insurgent attacks against Afghan security forces surged. The Taliban resumed offensive operations against the Afghan army and police on March 3, 2020, conducting attacks in Kunduz and Helmand provinces.[47]

I think I can continue to stand on my statements.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As an American, am I at war with Russia right now?

Let's set that question aside for a moment and permit me a more fundamental one. Is there an ethical reason that we, as Americans, should take sides in this conflict?

• If your answer is "yes," I'd like to know what you think that should look like.
• If your answer is "no," I'd appreciate knowing if you believe this to be true in all cases of military conflict.

Thanks.

 

[Stevicus]

They lost and we won. They are trying to reverse that. They won't admit they lost. As for the morality of that, there is none. It is realpolitik and about power.

Who is "we" and what did we "win"? If you're talking about the Soviet withdrawal from Eastern Europe, the Russians decided it was time to end the Cold War and did so of their own accord. They were decent, gracious, and magnanimous to stand down as they did, in the purest desire for world peace.

After that, the U.S. leadership acted treacherously and deceitfully, ratcheting up their globally aggressive policies even more than before.

That may be (as you say) realpolitik and all about power, but even then, the U.S. leadership fails on that point as well. What have we gained? Where are our spoils of victory? Why is our economy sputtering at the edge of an abyss?

If we look at today's situation as any indication, then "we" didn't win anything. "We" lost - big time. Anyone who advocates that the U.S. continue with the same failed, self-destructive policies is either a traitor or a fool.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

If your answer is "no," I'd appreciate knowing if you believe this to be true in all cases of military conflict.

You didn't mention nuclear warheads, which you know, change everything. We would have stopped russia on February 25th, if it was not for that. Now as it is, it seems that we are all being dragged into a dangerous game

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Who is "we" and what did we "win"? If you're talking about the Soviet withdrawal from Eastern Europe, the Russians decided it was time to end the Cold War and did so of their own accord. They were decent, gracious, and magnanimous to stand down as they did, in the purest desire for world peace.

After that, the U.S. leadership acted treacherously and deceitfully, ratcheting up their globally aggressive policies even more than before.

That may be (as you say) realpolitik and all about power, but even then, the U.S. leadership fails on that point as well. What have we gained? Where are our spoils of victory? Why is our economy sputtering at the edge of an abyss?

If we look at today's situation as any indication, then "we" didn't win anything. "We" lost - big time. Anyone who advocates that the U.S. continue with the same failed, self-destructive policies is either a traitor or a fool.

Well, we are not the USA so no, we didn't win as that. But just make it about 2 empires and forget the rest.