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A question about Ukraine.

an anarchist

Your local anarchist.
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
I would say yes.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I’d say yes to your questions. Just hoping it doesn’t drag on like Afghanistan, but probably will. The weapons producers are happy, but it’s terrible for the Ukrainian people.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
There is a crucial difference between aiding someone else's army and fighting yourself. Proxy wars, aided by both sides, went on throughout the cold war period. What both sides wanted to avoid was direct conflict which could escalate to involving the nuclear weapons that both sides possess.

As Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, and nobody is going to give them any, Russia has no reason to fear their use in this war. That is very, very important.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
As I understand it, Biden pulled out of the Afghan war to then start another one in Ukraine. MPVP
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?

Officially, we're not really at war unless Congress declares war. However, I've come to realize that the practice of "declaring war" is something that went out with muskets.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Was France declaring war with England when they sent the US (English colonies) ships, cannons, and other supplies in the Revolutionary War that we fought against England?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Was France declaring war with England when they sent the US (English colonies) ships, cannons, and other supplies in the Revolutionary War that we fought against England?

Slightly different situation since they might have still viewed the colonies as still British territory in a state of rebellion, but France's recognition of U.S. independence in 1778 would have been seen as a hostile act against Britain, in addition to openly signing a treaty with them and giving them aid. Britain declared war on France because of that.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
You guys been at war with them for 75 yrars now.
Get used to it alreafy.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?

Lots of spending for lots of weapons...


“Those amounts by themselves are in excess of $3 billion; by the end of April, the total U.S. expenditure on the war in Ukraine was close to $14 billion, drawn from the additional $13.5 billion Congress authorized in mid-March. While some of that is earmarked for economic and humanitarian assistance for Ukraine, most of it will go into the coffers of the weapons industry — including Raytheon, on whose Board of Directors the current Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, sat immediately before being chosen by Biden to run the Pentagon. As CNN put it: “about $6.5 billion, roughly half of the aid package, will go to the US Department of Defense so it can deploy troops to the region and send defense equipment to Ukraine.”

“As enormous as those sums already are, they were dwarfed by the Biden administration's announcement on April 28 that it “is asking Congress for $33 billion in funding to respond to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, more than double the $14 billion in support authorized so far.” The White House itself acknowledges that the vast majority of that new spending package will go to the purchase of weaponry and other military assets: “$20.4 billion in additional security and military assistance for Ukraine and for U.S. efforts to strengthen European security in cooperation with our NATO allies and other partners in the region.”

Biden Wanted $33B More For Ukraine. Congress Quickly Raised it to $40B. Who Benefits?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
It's military aid, just as wealthy nations provide their allies. The USA provided materiel to the English in 1941 but we were not officially at war with Germany. Be aware that Putin has not officially declared war on Ukraine. It is being termed a "special operation" not a war. The USA has been careful in how it approaches the aid to Ukraine. The war does give NATO an opportunity to see where Russia is weak and where it is strong.

If you compare this war to the Spanish Civil War it is nothing like it. The SCW had many nations directly involved with fighting, either with or against the fascists. Russia and Germany faced off directly. These nations had many pilots and other forces fight and die in Spain.

There is an international legion fighting in Ukraine including many Americans. These are volunteers and I'm not sure how they deal with the citizenship.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
So you agree with KenS, that Biden started the war in Ukraine?

If so, explain. Use facts and coherent thinking.
I feel no need to explain myself to your demanding requests in a belittling tone
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
I feel no need to explain myself to your demanding requests in a belittling tone
Well Ken set the table, and you sat down to eat.

If Ken's comment isn't a joke then it is the worst kind of disinformation. Your agreement suggested he was being serious and you buy into that disinformation. Of course you want to avoid being accountable for your factless position, because it isn't true.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Well Ken set the table, and you sat down to eat.

If Ken's comment isn't a joke then it is the worst kind of disinformation. Your agreement suggested he was being serious and you buy into that disinformation. Of course you want to avoid being accountable for your factless position, because it isn't true.
Exactly this tone I meant
I am not interested in that

Jumping to false conclusions, just trying to find faults in others. Well you failed this time. Good luck next time.
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
So, the US is sending lots of weapons to Ukraine. Is the US at war with Russia by proxy (Ukraine being the proxy)?
How is sending weapons to Ukraine much different than sending troops? It’s not that different at all in my view. As an American, am I at war with Russia right now? I mean, my tax money is going towards the war effort. Will I look back at this year as when the war between our nations begun?
The war began when Russia invaded Ukraine, not when the US started supplying weapons.

What should the US (and NATO) have done? What is your better idea?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Very important observation

It's all about dollars and their power games

As I understand it
What lazy cynicism. The Russians are killing, raping and torturing thousands of innocent people, and 4 million have been displaced from their homes, and you say it's about "dollars".

It's about Putin trying to rebuild the Soviet empire by conquest and about Ukraine, supported by Europe and the US, trying to stop him.

It is costing tens of billions of "dollars".
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
What lazy cynicism. The Russians are killing, raping and torturing thousands of innocent people, and 4 million have been displaced from their homes, and you say it's about "dollars".
What a lazy reading skill

As I said "power games" what Putin does. And don't pretend US and NATO are innocent not playing power games, I don't buy that
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
It's about Putin trying to rebuild the Soviet empire by conquest
Again Power games. As I said

It is costing tens of billions of "dollars

Exactly, here only come the dollars. Don't misinterpret, and on purpose attribute your negativity to my words. Some people earn hoards of money selling the weapons to them to kill people
 
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