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Featured A look at Quran

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Unes, Jul 4, 2016.

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  1. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    A look at Quran

    When religions are affecting and influencing, our security, our relationships, our laws, our public policies, and our international relationships, then religions is a dominant Political Issue, and as a concerned member of human race we are obligated to examine their behaviors and the validity of their claims very closely, without any intimidation and with an absolute freedom.

    In order to understand and appreciate Quran, first we need to remember the condition of the people whom Quran wanted to guide. Quran wanted to enlighten some simple-minded and illiterate Arabs, who were worshipping idols, and guide them to the invisible God of Abraham, and tell them to reject their idols.

    The verses of Quran do reflect this simplicity in meaning, that these very primitive and mostly nomad people could understand and comprehended its verses without any difficulty. For this very reason certainly we do not need to be a learned scholar or a philosopher to comprehend verses of Quran. Quran itself invites people to read it, and personally verify the significances of its divine verses.


    [17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

    Amen! This verse is an excellent advice from Quran. And I am going to apply it while I am examining verses of Quran directly. As this verse suggests Quran is meant to be read by everyone. This view is also presented in the following verses and many other verses.

    [39:17] As for those who discard the worship of all idols, and devote themselves totally to GOD alone, they have deserved happiness. Give good news to My servants.

    [39:18] They are the ones who examine all words, then follow the best. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence.

    Throughout the history the scholars who realized the falsehood of Quran they had to remain silent, the alternative was to face the Islamic sword. And in today’s time it is a Fatwa from an Ayatollah who are mostly crook to their core, and they have been threatening any opposing view. We cannot be intimidated by these self-serving and ignorant mullahs. This article is my contribution to help my fellow human beings who are under the brutal tyranny of Islam. If you are a Moslem, then, let us have a scholarly jihad for the truth.

    Before examining any verse, I like to expose the contradiction within the described meaning of “Islam”. The following is the common description that it is offered by the Moslem communities:

    Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and ...

    http://www.barghouti.com/islam/meaning.html

    Actually Peace and Submission are opposite of each other; Peace means equality and coexistence, but submission means surrender. And in practice, Moslems say: if you submit to us, then there will be peace, otherwise you need to be destroyed. And this is exactly what is happening in Iran, in Saudi Arabia, and many other places.

    Now, this is the responsibility of the civilized people to educate Moslems that they have been deceived by an imposter Prophet. The writing in Quran is too poor and it is full of flaws, and Quran cannot be word of God.

    In this article I have got Quran translation from Submission.org site: http://www.submission.org/

    And I verified the English translation with Farsi translation from another source. So, I am confident there is not a gross mistake in the translation of the verses that I am examining in this article.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Here I provide you with few verses that Quran invites people to read it and learn it. And also I provide few sample verses to show the simplicity in verses of Quran. As you will see the verses of Quran are straightforward and for the most part there is no ambiguity reading them. They are simple phrases that illiterate nomad Arabs could understand them without any difficulty.


    [2:242] GOD thus explains His revelations for you, that you may understand.

    [47:24] Why do they not study the Quran carefully? Do they have locks on their minds?

    [54:17] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

    [54:22] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

    [54:32] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

    [54:40] We made the Quran easy to learn. Does any of you wish to learn?

    [65:11] a messenger who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in GOD and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. GOD will generously reward him.

    [2:117] The Initiator of the heavens and the earth: to have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.

    [4:48] GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense.

    [12:3] We narrate to you the most accurate history through the revelation of this Quran. Before this, you were totally unaware.

    [22:23] GOD will admit those who believe and lead a righteous life into gardens with flowing streams. They will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold, and pearls, and their garments therein will be silk.

    [43:70] Enter Paradise, together with your spouses, and rejoice.

    [43:71] Offered to them will be golden trays and cups, and they will find everything the hearts desire and the eyes wish for. You live therein forever.

    [50:16] We created the human, and we know what he whispers to himself. We are closer to him than his jugular vein.

    [8:24] O you who believe, you shall respond to GOD and to the messenger when he invites you to what gives you life. You should know that GOD is closer to you than your heart, and that before Him you will be summoned.

    [55:10] He created the earth for all creatures.

    [55:11] In it there are fruits, and date palms with their hanging fruit.

    [55:12] Also grains and the spices.

    [57:1] Glorifying GOD is everything in the heavens and the earth. He is the Almighty, Most Wise.

    [64:1] Glorifying GOD is everything in the heavens and everything on earth. To Him belongs all kingship, and to Him belongs all praise, and He is Omnipotent.

    [77:15] Woe on that day to the rejectors.

    [2:2] This scripture is infallible; a beacon for the righteous;

    [10:38] If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."

    [4:82] Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions.

    [10:37] This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than GOD. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a fully detailed scripture. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

    [17:88] Say, "If all the humans and all the jinns banded together in order to produce a Quran like this, they could never produce anything like it, no matter how much assistance they lent one another."

    [18:1] Praise GOD, who revealed to His servant this scripture, and made it flawless.

    [41:42] No falsehood could enter it, in the past or in the future; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.
     
  2. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Flaws in Quran

    As you see verses of Quran are easy to read and easy to understand. And you see in some verses Quran confidently boasts its unique and unparalleled status that it is infallible, and there is no flaw in verses of Quran. And this makes a perfect sense; because, Quran is claimed it is authored by God, and God does not make any mistake.

    Now, if I find only one flaw in any verse of Quran, t
    hen, we have to conclude that Quran is fallible, and certainly it cannot be word of God, because God does not make any mistake. But, rest assured I will present you with one hundred easy to verify flaws.

    Here I need to explain something, sometime you may think that I repeat the same flaw twice, but that is not a repeat on my part, this is because Quran keep repeating the same phrase again and again and again. One may consider these repeats should be considered as flaws, and a flawless literature should not have such repeats. But that is another story and another point, which here I do not bother even to discuss it.


    = = = = = = = 1

    [7:94] Whenever we sent a prophet to any community, we afflicted its people with adversity and hardship, that they may implore.
    [6:42] We have sent (messengers) to communities before you, and we put them to the test through adversity and hardship, that they may implore.
    [6:43] If only they implored when our test afflicted them! Instead, their hearts were hardened, and the devil adorned their works in their eyes.

    These verses say that God intentionally is causing us troubles in order that we implore to him! What we helpless people are supposed to think!? That Omnipotent God is helpful and he has mercy? Or, God is the devil who brings us the hardships!?

    These awful verses cannot be word of God. The Omniscient God does not behave sadistically. Omniscient God cannot be this stupid that he shamelessly confesses to this despicable sadistic behavior. These cannot be words of God at all. We need to redirect this stupidity to Mohammad who uttered this Filth. This sick behavior is similar to the behavior of Nero, the infamous Roman emperor. Do Moslems really admit that Allah is as sick as Nero?

    Associating Glory of God to this sick thought is the worst illogical thought that we may have. The hardships and sufferings in this world they are meant to benefit the development and the growth of life, and not to satisfy God’s sadistic desires. We cannot allow Mohammad’s thoughts to pollute and degrade Glory of God. This is a flaw of the worst kind.



    Here, I provide verses [7:95] and [7:96] in order to show that I did not take verse [7:94] out of context.


    [7:95] Then we substituted peace and prosperity in place of that hardship. But alas, they turned heedless and said, "It was our parents who experienced that hardship before prosperity." Consequently, we punished them suddenly when they least expected.

    [7:96] Had the people of those communities believed and turned righteous, we would have showered them with blessings from the heaven and the earth. Since they decided to disbelieve, we punished them for what they earned.

    = = = = = = = 2

    [25:30] The messenger said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."

    [25:31] We also set up against every prophet enemies from among the guilty. Your Lord suffices as a guide, a master.

    This is another sadistic act! This sick God also sets up enemies against his own prophets. This cannot be, we cannot accept this sadistic conducts from Omniscient God. This stupid verse must be authored by Mohammad. This is another flaw of the worst kind.


    = = = = = = = 3


    [61:6] Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)." Then, when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."

    [5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

    There are few false statements in verse [61:6]. I will talk about Jesus and Christianity later. But, there is a new claim here, which is a false claim, Jesus never mentioned anything about a new messenger named Ahmad that he was coming after him. It is very convenient and self-serving to tell to those illiterate people that Jesus has announced Mohammad’s mission in advance, in the Gospel. Of course, those illiterate people had no Gospel, to ask Mohammad to show them the mentioned verse. But, we can ask the Islamic scholars today to present us with the mentioned verse in the Bible. Oh, by the way, Jesus knew nothing about the Gospel! This case is closed. This is a flaw.

    = = = = = = = 4


    [6:107] Had GOD willed, they would not have worshipped idols. We did not appoint you as their guardian, nor are you their advocate.

    [6:108] Do not curse the idols they set up beside GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done.

    Verse [6:108] is so weird.
    Don’t curse the idols because they are set up beside God!? So, by cursing the idols people may accidentally curse the Invisible God!!?? Can the Invisible God sit beside the idols!!!??? This God of Mohammad has phobia of getting cursed! This is a horrible verse. This verse counts for multiple screaming flaws.



    = = = = = = = 5


    [25:3] Yet, they set up beside Him gods who do not create anything - they themselves are created - and who possess no power to even harm or benefit themselves, nor do they possess any power to control life, or death, or resurrection.


    In this verse Quran rightfully explains how useless are the idols, and yet, in the following verse these useless idols cheated Omnipotent God from his share of provisions!


    [6:136] They even set aside a share of GOD's provisions of crops and livestock, saying, "This share belongs to GOD," according to their claims, "and this share belongs to our idols." However, what was set aside for their idols never reached GOD, while the share they set aside for GOD invariably went to their idols. Miserable indeed is their judgment.


    In verse [6:136], poor Almighty God, he was cheated by the idols for his share of provisions of crops and livestock! What can we say about this helpless God, that even idols could cheat him this easily of his share of provisions!? By this admission, who is more powerful; the idols or the Invisible God of Mohammad!? I guess Mohammad was hallucinating when he revealed this verse! This is a Giant flaw.

    = = = = = = = 6


    [50:38] We have created the heavens and the earth, and everything between them in six days, and no fatigue touched us.

    [57:4] He is the One who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. He knows everything that enters into the earth, and everything that comes out of it, and everything that comes down from the sky, and everything that climbs into it. He is with you wherever you may be. GOD is Seer of everything you do.

    In verse [50:38] and [57:4] God created heaven and earth in SIX days. In the following passage it took God EIGHT days to create heaven and earth. This is a flaw.

    [41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the universe."*
    [41:10] He placed on it stabilizers (mountains), made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four days, to satisfy the needs of all its inhabitants.
    [41:11] Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."
    [41:12] Thus, He completed the seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every universe. And we adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and placed guards around it. Such is the design of the Almighty, the Omniscient.
     
  3. Sees

    Sees Dragonslayer

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    I'm not a fan of Islam but disagree with a single flaw (or several) ruling out the Qur'an as being the word of Allah. Too many arbitrary conditions are necessary to make that a requirement.
     
  4. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    Slugs contradict the Quran, as they're asexual, thus not made in pairs, as the Quran states all animals are. ;)
     
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  5. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Flaws in Quran


    (Continued)


    Just remember, even if I find only one flaw in any verse of Quran, that is sufficient to conclude that Quran is a hoax.

    = = = = = = = 7

    [33:72] We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.

    This is so absurd that I cannot find proper words to express my annoyance or my indignation. I think there should be a limit for entertaining any nonsense.


    By pulling this kind of rabbit out of his hat Mohammad has disoriented our basic senses. I am learning some of the tricks of a master swindler. I must acknowledge Mohammad was a superb con-artist.


    First of all this version of freedom of choice contradicts with the story of creation of Adam, which Adam was intended to be the representative of God on earth. So, as the representative of God on earth, he would have freedom of choice, similar to God’s freedom of choice. So, by the original design Adam was created to have freedom of choice. And this freedom of choice did not make him ignorant, quite opposite that made him the jewel of the creation that God ordered all angels to prostrate before him.


    Now, let us see; how did God offer freedom of choice to the mountains? I guess he must have talked to them. Today in our society the person who talks to dead objects we call him crazy. And he remains crazy until he takes a comprehensive treatment. So, Mohammad who uttered this filth he is seriously sick, and if he was alive today, we would have put him in mental institution. Today Mohammad is not alive, but his followers are, we should feel sorry for them that they have been duped to this extent. We need to show them the facts, that Quran is a hoax, and it’s writing is at the level of an educated nomad 1400 years ago, and it is full of flaws, and it is not a masterpiece of literature, far from it, it is not even at the level of a scholarly writing. Let’s hope that Moslems may recover from this nightmare. And may God have mercy on them, they have suffered a lot under suffocating tyranny of Islam. This is a sickening flaw.


    = = = = = = = 8


    [38:86] Say, "I do not ask you for any wage, and I am not an impostor.

    [26:164] "I do not ask you for any wage; my wage comes only from the Lord of the universe.
    [26:109] "I do not ask you for any wage. My wage comes from the Lord of the universe.
    [26:127] "I do not ask you for any wage; my wage comes from the Lord of the universe.
    [26:145] "I do not ask you for any wage; my wage comes only from the Lord of the universe.
    [26:164] "I do not ask you for any wage; my wage comes only from the Lord of the universe.
    [26:180] "I do not ask you for any wage; my wage comes only from the Lord of the universe.

    In these seven verses Mohammad repeatedly says: "I do not ask you for any wage,", that may sound an honest and innocent plea. But in the following verse, he wants to receive God’s provisions!


    [36:47] When they are told, "Give from GOD's provisions to you," those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Why should we give to those whom GOD could feed, if He so willed? You are really far astray."



    And furthermore, he asks the believers to obey messengers the same way that they obey God, and they should make no distinction between messengers and God:


    [4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.
    [4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
    [48:9] That you people may believe in GOD and His messenger, and reverence Him, and observe Him, and glorify Him, day and night.


    I can declare with absolute confidence that Mohammad was the best swindler in the history. No other con-artist can even come close to his class, he was something else.


    This is a scam, and a flaw, of the highest rank.


    = = = = = = = 9


    [13:7] Those who disbelieved say, "If only a miracle could come down to him from his Lord (we will then believe)." You are simply a warner - every community receives a guiding teacher.

    [5:99] The sole duty of the messenger is to deliver the message, and GOD knows everything you declare and everything you conceal.

    [98:4] In fact, those who received the scripture did not dispute until the proof was given to them.
    [98:5] All that was asked of them was to worship GOD, devoting the religion absolutely to Him alone, observe the contact prayers (Salat), and give the obligatory charity (Zakat). Such is the perfect religion.

    [65:11] a messenger who recites to you GOD's revelations, clearly, to lead those who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone who believes in GOD and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. GOD will generously reward him.

    In these verses the things that the believers are required to do have been specified, obeying and submitting to messenger is not one of them. But in the following verses the status of messengers has changed, there is no distinction between him and the Omnipotent God any more, and the believers have to obey the messenger as well as God. This change in the status of Prophets is a flaw and a scam.

    [48:9] That you people may believe in GOD and His messenger, and reverence Him, and observe Him, and glorify Him, day and night.

    [47:33] O you who believe, you shall obey GOD, and obey the messenger. Otherwise, all your works will be in vain.

    [72:23] "I deliver GOD's proclamations and messages." Those who disobey GOD and His messenger incur the fire of Hell, wherein they abide forever.

    [4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

    [4:80] Whoever obeys the messenger is obeying GOD. As for those who turn away, we did not send you as their guardian.

    = = = = = = = 10

    [15:11] Every time a messenger went to them, they ridiculed him.

    [15:12] We thus control the minds of the guilty.

    [15:13] Consequently, they cannot believe in him. This has been the system since the past generations.

    [15:14] Even if we opened for them a gate into the sky, through which they climb;

    [15:15] they will say, "Our eyes have been deceived. We have been bewitched."

    If God controls the minds of the Guilty, then why does he bother sending messengers and Holy books? This makes God a lunatic, and that cannot be accepted. This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 11


    [37:102] When he grew enough to work with him, he said, "My son, I see in a dream that I am sacrificing you. What do you think?" He said, "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, GOD willing, patient. "

    [37:103] They both submitted, and he put his forehead down (to sacrifice him).

    [37:107] We ransomed (Ismail) by substituting an animal sacrifice.

    [12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.


    Quran says it confirms all previous scriptures. In this passage Quran says Abraham intended to sacrifice Ismail for God offering. In Bible Abraham intended to sacrifice Isaac for God offering. Ismail was Isaac’s elder half-brother from Abraham’s Egyptian servant, Hager. This contradiction between Quran and Torah is a flaw.


    Genesis 16:15 And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

    Genesis 21:3 And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac.

    Genesis 22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

    Genesis 22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

    = = = = = = = 12

    [16:86] And when those who committed idol worship see their idols, they will say, "Our Lord, these are the idols we had set up beside You." The idols will then confront them and say, "You are liars."

    The first quote in this verse indicates that at Judgment day the Idolaters confess to their sin, (this is a correct confession), but in the second quote the idols accuse them that they are liars! (this is an incorrect testimony, because the idolaters honestly confessed to their sin.)

    This verse reveals how limited Mohammad was in writing. He blundered because he was confused about the structure of the two sentences. This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 13


    [16:98] When you read the Quran, you shall seek refuge in GOD from Satan the rejected.

    [16:99] He has no power over those who believe and trust in their Lord.

    [16:100] His power is limited to those who choose him as their master, those who choose him as their god.

    [16:101] When we substitute one revelation in place of another, and GOD is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know.

    In this verse Quran admits that it substituted one verse with another one. This means a better verse was produced, and it replaced the fallible verse. This is a self-evidenced flaw.
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    <yawn>

    another one​

    </yawn>
     
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  7. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Hi Sees,
    I understand that you disagree with the concept of "a single flaw". That is fair, but may I ask you how did you accept that Quran to be word of God? I guess you remember that Quran claimed that it is flawless, and it is infallible. This is Quran's claim. So, it is fair to take upon Quran's challenge.

    May God Bless Us All,
    Unes
     
    #7 Unes, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    @Unes , do you have a point?
     
  9. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Dang. You beat me to it.


    <yawn>

    I really do have to go mow the lawn now.
     
  10. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    You're asking Sees this? LOL. @Sees
     
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  11. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

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    Peace be on you.
    Please note, Holy Quran is not a Book which one can understand with mere "A LOOK".
    There are certain essentials like:
    Good intention + Pure heart + Willingness to obey God are required to get real understanding:

    1=[2:3] This is a perfect Book; there is no doubt in it; it is a guidance for the righteous.
    2=[56:80] Which none shall touch except those who are purified.
    3=[2:27] ".............Many does He adjudge by it to be erring and many by it does He guide, and none does He adjudge thereby to be erring except the disobedient."

    So the Heading you chose, shows what is going to come in next deceptive green lines.


    Sorry to note that your statement was true in past, not anymore.
    IMO currently atheism is on the rise, law makers do not bother to consider religions guideline in parliaments. Your start shows of a some retired old anti-Islam person who mentally lives in yellowish pages of old library books rather than in existing society.




    Again wrong.
    a-Quran had to come at a place. It was Arabia for some wisdom e.g, their hidden good qualities.

    b-Quran is for all peoples. A claim, no other Book has made.

    [7:159]Say, ‘O mankind! truly I am a Messenger to you all (جميعا) from Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow him that you may be rightly guided.’

    c-Quran addressed un-lettered people of Arabiyya first. They were experts in trade, speech and poetry and other things.


    Though, Quran spoke in easy terms for immediate people, there are verses whose true meanings were only understood with scientific advancement.
    For example, creation+guided evolution of humanity:
    RF LINK:
    Quran uniquely tells about creation+guided evolution, and it prophecies scientific issues which are still being explored by modern science.

    So I think your castle of sand falls, so no need to waste time on further analysis.

    But you are most welcome to widen your horizon about Islam at
    https://www.alislam.org/books/

    Ahmadiyya-Muslim Resource backed by peaceful pratices for all humanity in whole wolrd under Khilafat.

    Thanks.
     
    #11 DawudTalut, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  12. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    This refers to previous scriptures in the Abrahamic traditions does it not? It is not self-referentualy regarding the Quran.

    Anyway, as regards other "points", in general the Quran is a work of rhetoric and should be interpreted as such. This means realising it contains metaphor, hyperbole, etc. and shouldn't always be interpreted with a superficial literalism.
     
    #12 Augustus, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  13. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    #13 Unes, Jul 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  14. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Hello Augustus,
    I do not know whether this verse is referred to other scriptures or not. But it does not matter, in either case replacing verses is a deficiency, especially when all texts are claimed that have been produced by the same Omniscient God, they should complement and add to each other instead of replacing each other, similar to our high school education that it adds and expands our elementary school education. The stories that Quran claims are accurate history, they better be accurate, otherwise, Mohammad’s God loses all his credibility.


    Who says that!? Quran says the following verse:

    [17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.



    May God Bless Us All,
    Unes
     
    #14 Unes, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  15. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Flaws in Quran
    (Continued)


    Just remember, even if I find only one flaw in any verse of Quran, that is sufficient to conclude that Quran is a hoax.

    = = = = = = = = = = 14

    [3:161] Even the prophet cannot take more of the spoils of war than he is entitled to. Anyone who takes more than his rightful share will have to account for it on the Day of Resurrection. That is when each soul is paid for whatever it earned, without the least injustice.

    [8:1] They consult you about the spoils of war. Say, "The spoils of war belong to GOD and the messenger." You shall observe GOD, exhort one another to be righteous, and obey GOD and His messenger, if you are believers.

    [8:41] You should know that if you gain any spoils in war, one-fifth shall go to GOD and the messenger, to be given to the relatives, the orphans, the poor, and the traveling alien. You will do this if you believe in GOD and in what we revealed to our servant on the day of decision, the day the two armies clashed. GOD is Omnipotent.

    In these verses the law of the distribution of spoils of war is different with each other, if one verse is correct then the others are wrong. This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = = = = 15


    [8:65] O you prophet, you shall exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are steadfast, they can defeat two hundred, and a hundred of you can defeat a thousand of those who disbelieved. That is because they are people who do not understand.


    [8:66] Now (that many new people have joined you) GOD has made it easier for you, for He knows that you are not as strong as you used to be. Henceforth, a hundred steadfast believers can defeat two hundred, and a thousand of you can defeat two thousand by GOD's leave. GOD is with those who steadfastly persevere.


    The ratio of strength factor of believers versus the nonbelievers in these two verses is different. If the ratio is correct in one verse then the ratio is incorrect in the other verse. This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 16


    [13:15] To GOD prostrates everyone in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and so do their shadows in the mornings and the evenings.

    If everyone in heaven and earth prostrates to God, willingly or unwillingly, then, what is the problem? And where are the idolaters and the transgressors? This is a flaw


    = = = = = = = 17


    [2:23] If you have any doubt regarding what we revealed to our servant, then produce one sura like these, and call upon your own witnesses against GOD, if you are truthful.


    [10:38] If they say, "He fabricated it," say, "Then produce one sura like these, and invite whomever you wish, other than GOD, if you are truthful."



    [11:13] If they say, "He fabricated (the Quran)," tell them, "Then produce ten suras like these, fabricated, and invite whomever you can, other than GOD, if you are truthful."



    When Quran changes its challenge from writing ONE chapter (ONE sura), to TEN chapters (10 suras), this is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 18


    [36:83] Therefore, glory be to the One in whose hand is the sovereignty over all things, and to Him you will be returned.

    Here God points out that we all will return to him. This cannot be right. God encompasses everything. Us being outside of God will create a boundary for God’s Dominion, and that is unacceptable. This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 19


    [2:117] The Initiator of the heavens and the earth: to have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.


    [36:71] Have they not seen that we created for them, with our own hands, livestock that they own?



    [51:47] We constructed the sky with our hands, and we will continue to expand it.


    The process of God using his hands to create something contradicts with the God’s ability that it is described in verse [2:117]. This is a flaw.

    May God Bless Us All,
    Unes
     
  16. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Flaws in Quran
    (Continued)

    Just remember, even if I find only one flaw in any verse of Quran, that is sufficient to conclude that Quran is a hoax.

    = = = = = = = 20

    [4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.


    [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.


    Holy Bible says that Romans did crucify Jesus. Crucifixion is a very important act in Christianity; it covers Man’s Original Sin, and how Jesus sacrificed himself to save Man from his Original Sin. Here, Quran is clueless about the content of the Bible, and it is contradicting the main essence of the Bible! This Contradiction shows the extent of Mohammad’s knowledge. Indeed he was very limited, but, he was extremely Bold and confident! This is a flaw.

    = = = = = = = 21

    [4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.


    There is another flaw in verse [4:158]. If God is the author of this verse, then God saying: “GOD raised him to Him” makes no sense at all. The second “Him” pronoun is totally wrong. It would have been much better if God had said: “I raised him to me”, or “I raised him to Heaven”, and so on. Quran is filled with these kinds of wrong pronouns in thousands of verses. An infallible literature cannot have any of those wrong pronouns at all. There are many verses that the correct pronoun has been used, the following verses are a sample of them.



    [6:84] And we granted him Isaac and Jacob, and we guided both of them. Similarly, we guided Noah before that, and from his descendants (we guided) David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron. We thus reward the righteous.



    [6:110] We control their minds and their hearts. Thus, since their decision is to disbelieve, we leave them in their transgressions, blundering.



    [18:51] I never permitted them to witness the creation of the heavens and the earth, nor the creation of themselves. Nor do I permit the wicked to work in My kingdom.


    [32:13] Had we willed, we could have given every soul its guidance, but it is already predetermined that I will fill Hell with jinns and humans, all together.


    = = = = = = = 22

    [4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

    The Bible teaches Trinity, and it says Jesus was God, and he was son of God, the father. Here, Quran is clueless about Christianity. It is obvious that Mohammad authored Quran based on the casual conversations that he had with Christians and Jews, but he could never understand Christianity. Christianity was too complex for Mohammad to understand and comprehend. So, he ends up making these kinds of blunders. This is a flaw.

    = = = = = = = 23


    Quran is extremely adamant that there is no deity but God; an ABSOLUTE Monotheism. And based on Monotheism, Quran rejects Trinity without any reservation. Now, please read the following verses:


    [19:16] Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location.
    [19:17] While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being.
    [19:18] She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous."
    [19:19] He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."
    [19:20] She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."
    [19:21] He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "
    [19:22] When she bore him, she isolated herself to a faraway place.


    In this story God says that he sent his spirit, in form of a man, to Mary. In this scenario God’s spirit, which was in form of a man, was operating as an entity separate from God. So, at this scenario two entities of the Trinity are identified. So, Monotheism is not ABSOLUTE after all! This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 24



    In flaw #23, we saw that the spirit of God, in the form of a man, made Mary pregnant. But in the following verse this is God himself who breathed into Mary and made her pregnant. This is a different version of the same story. This is a flaw.


    [21:91] As for the one who maintained her virginity, we blew into her from our spirit, and thus, we made her and her son a portent for the whole world.
    = = = = = = = 25

    [5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

    That is a wrong statement. Jesus did not produce the Gospels! Jesus was a fanatic Jew. Jesus knew nothing about the Gospels. Christianity was developed based on teachings from Saint Paul. And Bible was canonized by consensus of the First Council of Nicaea on 325 AD. And, this Bible was present at 610 Ad, when Mohammad started to produce his verses of Quran. This is a flaw.


    = = = = = = = 26


    [2:113] The Jews said, "The Christians have no basis," while the Christians said, "The Jews have no basis." Yet, both of them read the scripture. Such are the utterances of those who possess no knowledge. GOD will judge them on the Day of Resurrection, regarding their disputes.


    This verse is wrong. Old Testament is part of the Bible! This is a flaw.



    = = = = = = = 27


    [5:72] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.
    [5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.


    In these verses again Quran is Contradicting the content of the Bible. This is a flaw.



    = = = = = = = 28


    [6:35] If their rejection gets to be too much for you, you should know that even if you dug a tunnel through the earth, or climbed a ladder into the sky, and produced a miracle for them (they still would not believe). Had GOD willed, He could have guided them, unanimously. Therefore, do not behave like the ignorant ones.


    [6:39] Those who reject our proofs are deaf and dumb, in total darkness. Whomever GOD wills, He sends astray, and whomever He wills, He leads in a straight path.



    [6:111] Even if we sent down the angels to them; even if the dead spoke to them; even if we summoned every miracle before them; they cannot believe unless GOD wills it. Indeed, most of them are ignorant.



    In these verses God explains that the nonbelievers cannot change their beliefs because God wills them to be that way. If God has sent the nonbelievers astray, then, what is the point that God has sent Quran to enlighten them!? Quran was sent to guide people to righteous behaviors, and now if God bars these nonbelievers from changing, then this conduct of God sounds sadistic and sick. This sadistic behavior from God makes no sense. But this makes perfect sense if we think that Mohammad wrote these unacceptable verses. This confusing thoughts fits Mohammad’s mindset very well. This is a flaw.



    = = = = = = = 29 - 32


    Here I provide you a bunch more flaws on the subject of Christianity. There are more verses with flaws on subject of Christianity, but, I like to provide you flaws in other subjects.

    [12:111] In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. This is not fabricated Hadith; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe.


    [18:4] And to warn those who said, "GOD has begotten a son!"

    [18:5] They possess no knowledge about this, nor did their parents. What a blasphemy coming out of their mouths! What they utter is a gross lie.


    [19:91] Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son.

    [19:92] It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son.


    [37:151] Indeed, they grossly blaspheme when they say -

    [37:152] "GOD has begotten a son." Indeed, they are liars.


    [39:4] If GOD wanted to have a son, He could have chosen whomever He willed from among His creations. Be He glorified; He is GOD, the One, the Supreme.


    May God Bless Us All,
    Unes
     
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  17. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    The Quran is a work of rhetoric, it doesn't need to say it is, it is a question of style. It is the propogation of a particular theologocal worldview written in a particular style and intended to persuade.

    It's style is different to many western texts as the Western tradition grew out of Greek rhetoric. This is why the sttyle can appear 'strange' to a 21st century Westerner reading a translation. As such, to view everything in it to be treated in a perfectlt literal sense is not how it was intended in its original sitz im leben.

     
  18. Unes

    Unes Active Member
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    Dear Augustus,

    This rhetoric interpretation does not jive with the history of Quran at all.
    When Mohammad was reciting new revelation of Quran, five writers were assigned the task of writing those new verses of Quran. After Mohammad’s death some differences started to show up between these copies. The leaders of Islam at that time they were alarmed such differences could cause serious problem later on, so, they assembled a committee to reconcile these differences and create a unified version of Quran, and then they destroyed all other versions. In order to stop any future alteration in Quran they even counted the dots in entire Quran. (You know, similar to the dot in the letter i, most of Arabic alpha bets have dots; some has none, some has one dot, some has two dots, and some has three dots.) So, Quran was meant to be consistent in writing and in its meaning, and without any confusion. So, what you are suggesting to interpret Quran based on Greek rhetoric style, that would create all kinds of interpretations based on the scholars’ view point.

    In any lecture, conversations, or any debate, the person quotes from Quran in order to validate his/her point of view, and he/she who is in-line with Quran prevails, otherwise he/she is discredited! I wonder how you got the idea of Greek rhetoric style!?


    May God Bless Us All,
    Unes

     
    #18 Unes, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  19. blue taylor

    blue taylor Active Member

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    The Koran was written to enslave women, enable depraved old men to marry young girls, and enrich it's clergymen. Yes lets look at the Koran.
     
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  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Caritas Christi Urget Nos
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    That is extremely offensive. The pre-Islamic Arabs were an accomplished and civilized people with a lively culture, prominent kingdoms and complex trade networks. How dare you insult them in order to try to rewrite history. It's the same thing that Christians do when it comes to pre-Christian cultures - slander them as primitive savages after they have killed most of them off and destroyed their cultures.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arabia
     
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