a letter to the muslims

[chuck010342]

This may be new to me as well. Could you expand on it in a PM, if Chuck doesn't explain it?

What do you think about Jesus having a wife, and even a child, Chuck?

I honestly don't think it matters. Jesus was Human and God. So his human side could have a wife and children I see no problem with this.

 

[chuck010342]

As many others have said, you seem to have made up your mind already, and are simply mocking people of other faiths for something your own faith could be accused of.

Mock? I would never do that. If it seems that I have, then I apologize. If people in my faith mock people of other faiths then they are not members of my faith I want nothing to do with them. In only one circumstance I would (but there are not muslims)

Please explain why they cannot be, in this thread you're wanting to start against relativism. I do not expect that to have any influence on you, much as peoples' kind and patient answers to your questions (have you thanked them yet for replying, even when they must have known their relgion was about to be attacked?) have not yet done so.

I have not attacked anybody, Its called a debate. I will show you how this cannot be in another thread.

 

[chuck010342]

Why not? They (peace be upon them both) are both prophets from the same God. You still accept what the Prophets (pbut) before Jesus (pbuh) had to say as truth, don't you? You don't think they were lying about God and such matters do you? I really doubt it. So why can't Jesus and Muhammad (pbut) be telling the truth about God.

Jesus says "I am the way the light and the truth"

Does Mohummed ever say that "Jesus is the light and the thruth"?

Yes, I have heard of jihad. However,I'm wondering if you have ever heard of the correct meaning of jihad. I would love to hear what you think jihad means, please it explain it to me.

Jihad has two meanings. One it is one of an internal struggle that a muslim goes thru trying to be with the right of God. The second meaning is one of outworldy fighting like a war, that muslims have waged in the past. Some Like the Whabbis still are.

 

[chuck010342]

Alright, befrore I begin I would like to say to Chuck that I apologize if I came off as being boastful or rude in my response. I would also like to applaud Chuck for looking at my reply with an open mind and especial for admitting that things were not as they seemed. Props to you, cause I know it's not easy for people to admit when they have made a mistake.

yeah

The reason for this being that two out of the three verses that were put forward are open to interpretation (which I will explain latter on). As you can imagine different interpretations can give very different views on a subject. So here we go, I will once again provide the verses for those of you that are following along.

Verse 2:132 says:
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen The Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."

This verse obviouslly implies that Abraham (pbuh) was a Muslim and I'm sure this is why Chuck included it.

Verse 7:143 says:
"....When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust, and Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! To Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

Verse 39:12 says:
"And I (Muhammad) am commanded to be the first of those who bow to God in Islam."

Bofore I continue I would like to give a little explanation of the Muslim belief as for who we believe to be the first Muslim. We believe the first Muslim to be Adam (pbuh) and we also believe that all the Prophets (peace be upon them all) from Adam up to Muhammad were Muslim's. Even though these people didn't call themselves Muslim's we believe they were Muslim's in the sense that they believed in the One True God and that they taught the submission to God's will, in other words they called people to follow and obey God.

Now to tackle the issue. I stated before that two of the verse were open to interpretation, these two would be verses 7:143 and 39:12. At a first glance it might appear that there isn't much to interpret from these verses, however, when one looks at them closer we find that there are no specifics stated as to how or who Prophets Moses and Muhammad (pbut) were the first of. How they were the first, might sound kind of weird but I say "how" because in the commentary provided by Yusuf Ali in his Translation of the Meaning of the Qur'an, he interprets these verses to mean not the first in a chronological sense but rather the first, or the most eminent one, in "zeal" and "readiness to suffer for the Cause". I also said "who" because the text doesn't specify who these Prophets (pbut) were the first of. Were they the first of all of mankind in general, were they the first among their own people, their tribes, their families, the fact is that it isn't specified within the text.

At this point we're left with how we should decide to interpret these verses. As I stated earlier Muslim's believe Adam (pbuh) to be the first Muslim. This belief puts a limitation on how a Muslim can now interpret these verses. If the Muslim already believes that Adam (pbuh) was the first Muslim then it makes no sense that he would interpret these verses to mean that Moses or Muhammad (pbut) was now the first Muslim of all time. So a Muslim is not able to interpret these verses in this sense due to the limitation from the basic belief about Adam (pbuh). At this point a Muslim has to find a logical interpretation such as the one provided by Yusuf Ali or that these Prophets (pbut) were the first Muslims of their people/community, which is a perfectly reasonable explanation. Yes, Moses' (pbuh) people were Jews, however, they were extremely ignorant to there religion and didn't exactly follow it or know much about it even after Moses tried to teach them, so I think it's safe to say that this interpretation applies here. As for Muhammad (pbuh) this interpretation applies without a doubt. Now for a non-Muslim, who isn't limited in his interpretation by the beleif about Adam (pbuh), he could have no problem coming up with an interpretation that would be contradictory, but for the Muslim this is not something he can do.

My point is this, being that the verses are open to interpretation there are many things that could be given to explain the verses. I'm sure you would agree that certain verses in the Bible that are open to interpretation could, depending on the interpretation, appear to be contradictory. (Notice that I'm NOT saying that such verses are contradictory or are not contradictory, but rather that depending on the intrepretation they might appear to be contradictory)

Whoa wait a min here. I thought that the Quran was perfect? How then can it be open to interpetation?

 

[_salam_]

Jihad has two meanings. One it is one of an internal struggle that a muslim goes thru trying to be with the right of God. The second meaning is one of outworldy fighting like a war, that muslims have waged in the past. Some Like the Whabbis still are.

Correct, however I would just like to specify a couple of things about the second form of Jihad. As you said it is a outworldy struggle or fighting, but let us keep in mind that struggling or fighting against worldly forces doesn't always have to have a violent means. I'm not saying that fighting (in a physical sense) isn't alloud, cause it is, but it has certain specifics put on it. As I have said before fighting is only alloud in self defence or if you are being oppressed, and Here is a very small overview of some of the the rules or conditions that must be followed if a Muslim does have to fight.

 

[_salam_]

Whoa wait a min here. I thought that the Quran was perfect? How then can it be open to interpetation?

I didn't know that interpretations made something "unperfect". Would you not agree that the Bible has verses that could/are interpreted differently by different people. Also when we look to the Qur'an itself we find that it says in verse 3:7

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof thta is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from the Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."

 

[_salam_]

I didn't know that interpretations made something "unperfect". Would you not agree that the Bible has verses that could/are interpreted differently by different people. Also when we look to the Qur'an itself we find that it says in verse 3:7

"He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof thta is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from the Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."

As we can see from this verse, the fundamentals of the book (or those things that have established meaning) are the foundation of the Qur'an. However, the book also has verses that are allegories that may or may not have a hidden meaning in them (this obviously implies that they are open to interpretation) and that sometimes Allah is the only one how knows these hidden meanings.

 

[Peace]

If I wanted to attack your religion I would blow up Mecca. I have no desire to do any such thing.

And of course you cannot because it is protected by God.

You believe that he is and I believe that he is not. Which one of us has the truth, is what I want to know

If Jesus Christ on the day of judgement (or any other day) comes to me and says "Islam is true and your bible is false" I will believe it. I will take nobody and I mean nobodys word, unless that man is Jesus.

Be sure and certain that that day will come when Jesus peace upon him will tell you that you are wrong and that Muhammed peace be upon him is the last Prophet of God and Jesus himself believes in his Prophethood and is a follower of him. If this wouldn't happen call me a liar then.
By the way I am not saying that the Bible is false. I believe in the Bible that was revealed to Prophet Jesus pbuh, but many things has been added by different men to the Bible that exists nowadays.

I heard that there is a perfect copy of the Quran in heaven written in Arabic. Is God showing particularity towards a single culture/language?

Allah revealed the Quran in the Arabic language because Prophet Muhammed is an Arab, so normally the Quran must be revealed in the Arabic language and no other language. But the message of Islam is universal; it is destined for all humanity Arabs and non Arabs, and you must know that non Arabs Muslims are more in number than the Arabs.

Peace

 

[chuck010342]

Allah revealed the Quran in the Arabic language because Prophet Muhammed is an Arab, so normally the Quran must be revealed in the Arabic language and no other language. But the message of Islam is universal; it is destined for all humanity Arabs and non Arabs, and you must know that non Arabs Muslims are more in number than the Arabs.

Peace

If the Quran is destined for all of humanity they why is it in its perfect form in a paticular language?

 

[_salam_]

If the Quran is destined for all of humanity they why is it in its perfect form in a paticular language?

Simply because that's the language that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) spoke. It would make no sense for God to reveal the Qur'an to Muhammad (pbuh) in any other language. I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) you believe the Bible is a perfect book, but the whole of the Bible wasn't even revealed, or originally written, in the same language. And I'm guessing the Bible that you are reading is written in English, which we both know isn't the language it was first revealed/written in. I'm sure if God had decided to reveal the Qur'an in English, or any other language, it would still be in perfect form.

 

[chuck010342]

Salam your the first Muslim to give me an answer to this question. You seem to be a muslim apologetic

I didn't know that interpretations made something "unperfect".

God is perfect right? His book is perfect right? Humans are not perfect right? So why are you relying on a non perfect being to explain the perfect?

Would you not agree that the Bible has verses that could/are interpreted differently by different people.

Yes I would agree but the bible is not directly from God. God used man to write his book, so therefore we would expect some passages not to be clear because they are partly from Humans and Partly from God.

[/quote] "He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof thta is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from the Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding."[/QUOTE]

Two questions 1. WHere did those ( ) come from? Were they part of the orginal koran or was it the work of humans to put them in?
2. If only Allah knows the meaning of the words then why does he even write the book in the first place?

 

[chuck010342]

Props to you, cause I know it's not easy for people to admit when they have made a mistake.

Does this mean I get frubals? ( I still have no idea what those are) It is easy for me to say I made a mistake because I have made thousands of them. THats how you learn. Besides my master is quite good at forgiving those who make mistakes does he not?


Verse 2:132 says:

"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen The Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."

This verse obviouslly implies that Abraham (pbuh) was a Muslim and I'm sure this is why Chuck included it.

Verse 7:143 says:
"....When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust, and Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! To Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

Verse 39:12 says:
"And I (Muhammad) am commanded to be the first of those who bow to God in Islam."

Bofore I continue I would like to give a little explanation of the Muslim belief as for who we believe to be the first Muslim. We believe the first Muslim to be Adam (pbuh)

so now its not Abraham Moses or Mohummed but Adam.

and we also believe that all the Prophets (peace be upon them all) from Adam up to Muhammad were Muslim's.

Even Balaam?

Even though these people didn't call themselves Muslim's we believe they were Muslim's in the sense that they believed in the One True God and that they taught the submission to God's will, in other words they called people to follow and obey God.

What exactly is a prophet according to islam. I ask because would this include Jonah?

Now to tackle the issue. I stated before that two of the verse were open to interpretation, these two would be verses 7:143 and 39:12. At a first glance it might appear that there isn't much to interpret from these verses, however, when one looks at them closer we find that there are no specifics stated as to how or who Prophets Moses and Muhammad (pbut) were the first of. How they were the first, might sound kind of weird but I say "how" because in the commentary provided by Yusuf Ali in his Translation of the Meaning of the Qur'an, he interprets these verses to mean not the first in a chronological sense but rather the first, or the most eminent one, in "zeal" and "readiness to suffer for the Cause".

So what your saying is that there is a pecking order to how one can be a muslim? Doesn't this countradict the fact that all muslims submit there will to Allah and should give there lives for him?

I also said "who" because the text doesn't specify who these Prophets (pbut) were the first of. Were they the first of all of mankind in general, were they the first among their own people, their tribes, their families, the fact is that it isn't specified within the text.

Your right here

At this point we're left with how we should decide to interpret these verses. As I stated earlier Muslim's believe Adam (pbuh) to be the first Muslim.

Adam had to be the first muslim because he was the first in his own people his own tribe and his own family.

Yes, Moses' (pbuh) people were Jews, however, they were extremely ignorant to there religion and didn't exactly follow it or know much about it even after Moses tried to teach them, so I think it's safe to say that this interpretation applies here.

One of the few instances where the bible goes with the Koran.

 

[croak]

Well, I guess it's my turn.

Salam your the first Muslim to give me an answer to this question. You seem to be a muslim apologetic

What's that supposed to mean?

God is perfect right? His book is perfect right? Humans are not perfect right? So why are you relying on a non perfect being to explain the perfect?

Allah sent His Message to us, to believe in Him and do good. Now, it is obvious that people interpret things in different ways. For example:

I asked ten people to describe an elephant:

It is big.
It has a long trunk.
It has four legs.
It can fly (a kid who watched Dumbo ).
It is a herbivore.
It can swim.
It likes water.
It has a rope-like tail.
It cannot jump.
It lives in Africa and Asia.

Now, this is ten people describing an elephant. Now, they can be correct, as most of them are. They interpret it as being big, herbivorous, etc. However, some interprtations can be incorrect, such as the child's interpretation. My point: Humans should base their ideas on what Allah has revealed to us. The interprtations are based on revelation. Many people, however, base interpretations upon other peoples interpretations, meaning that you interpreted their interpretations wrong. We rely on ourseleves or other people to interpret Allah's Word. We might interpret wrong, but someone else will interpret correctly. So, it all comes down to what Allah has revealed and how we can understand it.
I don't think that made much sense, so you might like to ignore it.

Two questions 1. WHere did those ( ) come from? Were they part of the orginal koran or was it the work of humans to put them in?

These () do not exist in Arabic, they only exist in other languages. Why? A ayat in Arabic makes sense, but in English, it doesn't. The words enclosed in () make the Ayat make sense in English; without them, it wouldn't. This is precisely why you should learn the Qur'an in Arabic.

2. If only Allah knows the meaning of the words then why does he even write the book in the first place?

Read again.

But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof thta is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah.

It clearly states that if you are looking in the allegorical parts, looking for contradictions (discord), and searching for hidden meanings, you won't find them, because no one knows the except for Allah. Example: At the beginning of Surah Al-Baqarah, in the first Ayat, is Alf-Lam-Meem. It roughly translates to A-L-M, which are the sounds those letters represent. Do you know what that means? No, and neither do I. Only Allah knows. So, unless you know the meaning, you can't make a contradiction. Obviously, the whole Qur'an isn't allegorical. So, there are only some things that we are unable to understand. But why have an allegorical part at all? It's like asking why did 'Isa (Jesus)(as) speak in parables? The allegorical part, for Muslims, should mean that we do not know some things, and that those things we do not understand are proof of a being far more knowledgeable and intelligent than us.

Besides my master is quite good at forgiving those who make mistakes does he not?

I am not sure of your master, but my Master is Most-Merciful.

so now its not Abraham Moses or Mohummed but Adam.

Let's look at them again:

"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen The Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."

I cannot remember the exact meaning of Islam, but as far as I know, it is "submission to Allah." Now, here, Ibrahim (Abraham)(as) is telling them not to die as disbelievers, but as a people who believe in Allah and submit themselves to Him.

Verse 7:143 says:
"....When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust, and Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! To Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe."

These are Musa (Moses)(as)'s words, correct? Now, if you read the preceding Ayat, you shall find out that he was in the presence of people. So, we can conclude he is the first to believe from the people.

Verse 39:12 says:
"And I (Muhammad) am commanded to be the first of those who bow to God in Islam."

Here is Islam, the religion revealed to Muhammed (saas).

Even Balaam?

Who's that?

What exactly is a prophet according to islam. I ask because would this include Jonah?

People who have been chosen to reveal Allah's Word. Jonah is included. He is mentioned in the Qur'an as being a Prophet.

So what your saying is that there is a pecking order to how one can be a muslim? Doesn't this countradict the fact that all muslims submit there will to Allah and should give there lives for him?

I don't say there is a pecking order. If you want to be a Muslim, you can. No questions asked. Except that you might be asked if you're telling the truth.

Adam had to be the first muslim because he was the first in his own people his own tribe and his own family.

He (as) had to be because he was in Heaven before he was sent to Earth, and he saw Allah, the Angels, and the Jinn. You think somebody wouldn't believe if Allah Himself was talking to Him?

 

[_salam_]

Salam your the first Muslim to give me an answer to this question. You seem to be a muslim apologetic

What questions is that? (I think you're referring to the one about the Qur'an being revealed in Arabic, but correct me if I'm wrong) I wouldn't consider myself an apologetic, cause I don't feel that I'm apologizing for anything within my religion, I'm just trying to explain what my religion teaches and believes.

God is perfect right? His book is perfect right? Humans are not perfect right? So why are you relying on a non perfect being to explain the perfect?

The reason I'm "relying" on a person to try and explain certain verses to me is because as the Qur'an said itself "others (meaning verses) are allegorical" and "no one knows its (the Qur'an) hidden meanings except Allah". Therefore we know that there are going to be things in the Qur'an that we can't understand at the present time. Some reasons for this could be that: One, God is not fully comprehendable to humans, or two we do not have the current knowledge and understanding to decifer certain verses but perhaps we will in the future.

Two questions 1. WHere did those ( ) come from? Were they part of the orginal koran or was it the work of humans to put them in?
2. If only Allah knows the meaning of the words then why does he even write the book in the first place?

Perhaps if I provide another interpretation of the meaning of the Qur'an it will help to answer your first question. Maulana Muhammad Ali translates verse 3:7 this way:

"He it is Who has revealed the Book to thee; some of its verses are decisive - they are the basis of the Book - and others are allegorical. Then those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead, and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. And none knows its interpretation save Allah, and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord. And none mind except men of understanding."

So it would appear to me that the verse, even without the parenthesis (sp?), still holds the same meaning, that is that the decisive or verses of established meaning are the basis of the Book, and it would appear that Yusuf Ali translated it the way he did, with the parenthesis, only to add clarification. Now judging by the question that you posted right after this I can tell the point that your trying to make. If I say that Yusuf Ali added this for clarification then your going to tell me that the Qur'an now has the word of man in it and is not dirrectly Gods word. However, lets keep in mind that only the original Arabic is considered the Qur'an. What I have posted on here is merely the Translation of the MEANING of the Qur'an, and is not to be confused as being the actual Qur'an itself. So in other words when we read the Qur'an in any other language but Arabic we are just reading the MEANING of the Qur'an and not the actual Qur'an.

Now to answer the your second question, I would say that Allah gives us the Qur'an to teach us.

 

[Sunstone]

I think the word "apologetic" is here being used in it's old fashioned sense of "to defend" rather than "to apologize."

 

[croak]

I thought that as well.

 

[croak]

Hey, I got an idea. chuck can ask this kid to see if there are any contradictions.

 

[_salam_]

What exactly is a prophet according to islam. I ask because would this include Jonah?

In my response to this I'm going to give some quotes from The Complete Idiots Guide to Understanding Islam, written by Yahiya Emerick. In the chapter titled "It's All in the Prophets" it says:

"The Qur'an puts it this way:
"O Muhammad, We have sent revelations to you just as We sent them to Noah and the Prophets who came after him; We also sent revelations to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, his descendants, and to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron and Solomon. We revealed the Psalms to David. Revelations were also sent to those Messengers whom We have already mentioned to you and to those whose name We have not mentioned to you, and God spoke to Moses directly. All these Messengers conveyed good news to mankind and admonished them so that, after conveying the message through the Messengers, people would have no excuse to plead against God. Indeed, God is the Mighty, the Wise." (Qur'an 4:163-165)
So Islam accepts all true prophets from God whether He told us their name in the Qur'an or not."

Further in the book it states:
"When Muslims try to identify a potential prophet in a religion they have just encountered, we must first ask several questions. The first question is this: Was the religion founded between the time of Adam and Muhammad? Why focus on this range? The Qur'an calls Muhammad the seal and the last Prophet to the world. If the religion was founded after the time of Muhammad, then Islam says it is a false religion. To be even more accurate, we find that Prophet Muhammad said, "There were no Prophets sent to the world between Jesus and I."......
"The second question is what did that founding person teach? This is where a little deeper investigation is necessary. Through the use of whatever old records are available, a survey of current practices and their consistency can be conducted....... Some Muslim scholars, who have undertaken such a survey, are of the opinion that Buddha might even have been a prophet of God whose teachings became altered through the centuries...... While these theories cannot really be proven with available data, it is interesting to get a peek into how the world of Islam tries to make sense of and integrate the founders of other religions into its own milieu. None of this influences Islamic teachings, however, which are forever enshrined in the Qur'an and in the sayings of Muhammad. This process does serve to accentuate the strain of tolerance inherent in Islamic philosophy, though. If all true religion is from God, then all prophets must be brothers. How can a Muslim discriminate against a follower of another religion?"

Later in the same chapter it says:
"Islam accepts that written revelations given by God existed before the time of the Qur'an...... There are two types of prophets: regular prophets who received prophecies, and messengers who received codified "books" that were meant to be passed down...... So, where do all these revelations come from? The Qur'an says that God keeps a special book with Him called the "Mother of the Book." This is the source from which all revelations are derived. When a messenger is supposed to receive a message from God, the Angel Gabriel, who is nicknamed the Spirit of Holiness (also often called the Holy Spirit, as you can see it doesn't have the same meaning as in trinitarian belief) in the Qur'an, takes the revelation from the "Mother of the Book" and brings it to the messenger entitled to get it."

So what your saying is that there is a pecking order to how one can be a muslim? Doesn't this countradict the fact that all muslims submit there will to Allah and should give there lives for him?

What I'm saying is that in order for a person to be considered a Muslim he does have to believe in certain things, thats simply what makes a Muslim a Muslim or a Christian a Christian and so on, wouldn't you agree? For example some very basic things that a person would have to believe in order to be considered a Muslim would be belief in God, belief in the angels, belief in the revealed Books of God, belief in God's prophets, belief in the day of judgement, belief in the divine measurement of human affairs, and belief in a life after death.

One of the few instances where the bible goes with the Koran.

There are actually quite a few instances where the two agree.

 

[chuck010342]

What I'm saying is that in order for a person to be considered a Muslim he does have to believe in certain things, thats simply what makes a Muslim a Muslim or a Christian a Christian and so on, wouldn't you agree?

yes I would agree.

For example some very basic things that a person would have to believe in order to be considered a Muslim would be belief in God, belief in the angels, belief in the revealed Books of God, belief in God's prophets, belief in the day of judgement, belief in the divine measurement of human affairs, and belief in a life after death.

I believe in all of these things how come I'm not a muslim then?

There are actually quite a few instances where the two agree.

Quite a few? Maybe the OT but not the NT.

The reason I asked about Jonah is because Jonah was not a willing prophet. I wanted to know if the critera for a prophet was his willingness to submit to God.

 

[chuck010342]

What questions is that? (I think you're referring to the one about the Qur'an being revealed in Arabic, but correct me if I'm wrong) I wouldn't consider myself an apologetic, cause I don't feel that I'm apologizing for anything within my religion, I'm just trying to explain what my religion teaches and believes.

See sunstones post he gives the answer.

The reason I'm "relying" on a person to try and explain certain verses to me is because as the Qur'an said itself "others (meaning verses) are allegorical" and "no one knows its (the Qur'an) hidden meanings except Allah".

If nobody knows the meanings of the verses execpt Allah then why are they there? Its not for humans because we cannot understand them in the first place. Also if Nobody knows then your not relying on a person at all. If nobody knows the meaning of the verses then the verses are useless. And the Koran cannot be a perfect book if it has useless verses in them.

Therefore we know that there are going to be things in the Qur'an that we can't understand at the present time. Some reasons for this could be that: One, God is not fully comprehendable to humans, or two we do not have the current knowledge and understanding to decifer certain verses but perhaps we will in the future.

Another critera for the book not being perfect and from heaven. If the book is perfect then it should be able to be understood in the now.

Perhaps if I provide another interpretation of the meaning of the Qur'an it will help to answer your first question. Maulana Muhammad Ali translates verse 3:7 this way:

"He it is Who has revealed the Book to thee; some of its verses are decisive - they are the basis of the Book - and others are allegorical. Then those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead, and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. And none knows its interpretation save Allah, and those firmly rooted in knowledge. They say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord. And none mind except men of understanding."

So it would appear to me that the verse, even without the parenthesis (sp?), still holds the same meaning, that is that the decisive or verses of established meaning are the basis of the Book, and it would appear that Yusuf Ali translated it the way he did, with the parenthesis, only to add clarification.
Now judging by the question that you posted right after this I can tell the point that your trying to make. If I say that Yusuf Ali added this for clarification then your going to tell me that the Qur'an now has the word of man in it and is not dirrectly Gods word. However, lets keep in mind that only the original Arabic is considered the Qur'an. What I have posted on here is merely the Translation of the MEANING of the Qur'an, and is not to be confused as being the actual Qur'an itself. So in other words when we read the Qur'an in any other language but Arabic we are just reading the MEANING of the Qur'an and not the actual Qur'an.

right so the koran cannot be perfect for all humans because we need ( ) to clarify it. If the book was perfect for all humans then we wouldn't need the ( ) now would we?

Now to answer the your second question, I would say that Allah gives us the Qur'an to teach us.

Teach us? How can it teach us if the book has verses in them that cannot be understood?