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A karmic right to curse someone?

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Gandhari cursed Krishna for what she perceived to be his inaction in saving her sons during the Kurukshetra War. He willingly accepted the curse though he did/didn't do what was required for dharma. Gandhari accused him of "throwing the first punch".

Do we have a right to curse someone for what we perceive to be a wrong done to us, or to curse a person we feel "threw the first punch"? That is, doing something that by all accounts is unjust, even according to third party persons and the law.

I'll try to be brief (ha! as if! :D) ... my landlord sent a nebulous email a couple of months ago asking my husband and me to vacate the condo unit we are renting from her. The notice-to-quit had no reason in it though NJ law requires a good cause reason: non-payment of rent, illegal activities, and a few other reasons.

NJ is very tenant-friendly; it is difficult to evict someone in NJ. None of those reasons apply to us. Rent is current, for example; landlord even wrote, when I asked if we did something wrong: "Oh no, you're great tenants". Now, I have the legal right to tell her nope, we're not moving.

Needless to say, she got nasty bordering on abusive and accusatory. She admitted in writing that she didn't follow legal procedures but would do so now. When I pressed her for a reason she said she and her ex-husband were going to sell the unit. But even that has restrictions on eviction. So she filed suit in court for an eviction. In the court papers she changed her reason and said she wants her 20something son and daughter to move in. That is a gross violation of the NJ law. After an eviction only the owner can move in, not family members. I think she is very naive and is being given bad advice by her attorney. We have legal representation and have gotten hopeful advice. In a nutshell we don't think she will win; we hope she won't. At the least we'll be given a fairly long time to remain in order to save for moving expenses, possibly up to a year.

Anyway, while on the face of it this isn't directly related to Hinduism itself or dharma (well, maybe dharma) it goes to my question about cursing a person or even this unit once we leave) because of what I consider adharmic treatment by my landlord. I don't like playing with dark forces or energies but I'm simply thinking of telling her "Here are the keys. I curse you that you and your family, whom you say you are looking out for, will never have a moment's peace or happiness in this apartment, or with any money you get if you sell it. You will have nothing but problems with the property. You unjustly claimed that my actions affected your health; your own actions in this matter will adversely affect your health even more".

So the question is, should I even bother or just let karma work its magic, that is, let nature take its course?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Gandhari cursed Krishna for what she perceived to be his inaction in saving her sons during the Kurukshetra War. He willingly accepted the curse though he did/didn't do what was required for dharma. Gandhari accused him of "throwing the first punch".

Do we have a right to curse someone for what we perceive to be a wrong done to us, or to curse a person we feel "threw the first punch"? That is, doing something that by all accounts is unjust, even according to third party persons and the law.

I'll try to be brief (ha! as if! :D) ... my landlord sent a nebulous email a couple of months ago asking my husband and me to vacate the condo unit we are renting from her. The notice-to-quit had no reason in it though NJ law requires a good cause reason: non-payment of rent, illegal activities, and a few other reasons.

NJ is very tenant-friendly; it is difficult to evict someone in NJ. None of those reasons apply to us. Rent is current, for example; landlord even wrote, when I asked if we did something wrong: "Oh no, you're great tenants". Now, I have the legal right to tell her nope, we're not moving.

Needless to say, she got nasty bordering on abusive and accusatory. She admitted in writing that she didn't follow legal procedures but would do so now. When I pressed her for a reason she said she and her ex-husband were going to sell the unit. But even that has restrictions on eviction. So she filed suit in court for an eviction. In the court papers she changed her reason and said she wants her 20something son and daughter to move in. That is a gross violation of the NJ law. After an eviction only the owner can move in, not family members. I think she is very naive and is being given bad advice by her attorney. We have legal representation and have gotten hopeful advice. In a nutshell we don't think she will win; we hope she won't. At the least we'll be given a fairly long time to remain in order to save for moving expenses, possibly up to a year.

Anyway, while on the face of it this isn't directly related to Hinduism itself or dharma (well, maybe dharma) it goes to my question about cursing a person or even this unit once we leave) because of what I consider adharmic treatment by my landlord. I don't like playing with dark forces or energies but I'm simply thinking of telling her "Here are the keys. I curse you that you and your family, whom you say you are looking out for, will never have a moment's peace or happiness in this apartment, or with any money you get if you sell it. You will have nothing but problems with the property. You unjustly claimed that my actions affected your health; your own actions in this matter will adversely affect your health even more".

So the question is, should I even bother or just let karma work its magic, that is, let nature take its course?
I would monitor the situation and keep a lawyer handy.

On the note of cursing, though. Your story reminded me of when I first got into therapy and one of my "goto" lines was always, "Goddamn!" often said with a Yosemite Sam type drawl. No one ever picked me up on it till one night I was talking to an 80-year-old in our group, and he was a Christian man but did not wear his religion on his sleeve.

He flat out said, "Tell me, why does an atheist keep invoking a deity, he does not believe in, to keep damning things around him?" I was utterly speechless. It was just a reflexive expression I used -- a lot, and I meant it humorously. George helped me to realize that I was doing something highly negative and quite unconsciously. I never meant "god damn" in a literal sense but used it for comic relief. George helped me look at what I was really doing. I was using a VERY negative expression for COMIC relief. How much more disconnected can one get from their actions, I might ask?

Now, I no longer use the expression as I am far more conscious of the language I am using.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Sure, one has the right to curse another. One should just be prepared for karmic impact.

As I see it, cursing someone (or an apartment) in this instance does nothing to help you other than to satiate your own ego. It will only impact the landlord if she accepts the curse into her own reality (in other words believes in curses). If it was me, I would just allow her karma to work itself out.

While I'm thinking of it, what would a curse to an apartment do since it's not a sentient being?
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
I would monitor the situation and keep a lawyer handy.

On the note of cursing, though. Your story reminded me of when I first got into therapy and one of my "goto" lines was always, "Goddamn!" often said with a Yosemite Sam type drawl. No one ever picked me up on it till one night I was talking to an 80-year-old in our group, and he was a Christian man but did not wear his religion on his sleeve.

He flat out said, "Tell me, why does an atheist keep invoking a deity, he does not believe in, to keep damning things around him?" I was utterly speechless. It was just a reflexive expression I used -- a lot, and I meant it humorously. George helped me to realize that I was doing something highly negative and quite unconsciously. I never meant "god damn" in a literal sense but used it for comic relief. George helped me look at what I was really doing. I was using a VERY negative expression for COMIC relief. How much more disconnected can one get from their actions, I might ask?

Now, I no longer use the expression as I am far more conscious of the language I am using.
When I was a kid, I used to occasionally burst into giggles when someone would say "God damn it!" In my head, I'd picture some almighty hand of God breaking through the clouds to send the coffee table to hell(or whatever other ridiculous item the person had mindlessly damned).
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I would monitor the situation and keep a lawyer handy.
As luck would have it I just received a call from a NJ Legal Services attorney. We qualify for at least minimal representation due to our income status. She read the court complaint and said that by virtue of the incomplete notice-to-quit, that is, it has no reason given for eviction, it should and could be thrown out of court out-of -hand.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Sure, one has the right to curse another. One should just be prepared for karmic impact.

As I see it, cursing someone (or an apartment) in this instance does nothing to help you other than to satiate your own ego. It will only impact the landlord if she accepts the curse into her own reality (in other words believes in curses). If it was me, I would just allow her karma to work itself out.

While I'm thinking of it, what would a curse to an apartment do since it's not a sentient being?
This is what I kind of figure. My efforts may do nothing. In fact, I may have already incurred karmic effects by my thoughts. As far as cursing the apartment itself I mean causing it to harbor negativity. In the same way people sage or smudge an are I'm thinking of the opposite. But of course there is the danger of going to far and attracting something that may attach itself to us.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
When I was a kid, I used to occasionally burst into giggles when someone would say "God damn it!" In my head, I'd picture some almighty hand of God breaking through the clouds to send the coffee table to hell(or whatever other ridiculous item the person had mindlessly damned).
My husband hates it when I say that. To justify myself I tell him it only means "May God condemn/send it to hell". Actually it does mean that though. "God-****ing-dammit" takes it to a whole 'nother level. I try not to use it anymore. I'm taking to jai sri krishna! or krishna, yashoda, nanda ca!
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
As far as cursing the apartment itself I mean causing it to harbor negativity. In the same way people sage or smudge an are I'm thinking of the opposite. But of course there is the danger of going to far and attracting something that may attach itself to us.
I would also take into consideration applying a curse that could potentially harm tenants that move in after you.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
My husband hates it when I say that. To justify myself I tell him it only means "May God condemn/send it to hell". Actually it does mean that though. "God-****ing-dammit" takes it to a whole 'nother level. I try not to use it anymore. I'm taking to jai sri krishna! or krishna, yashoda, nanda ca!
I think the worst that comes out of my mouth anymore is, "Oh snap."
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I would also take into consideration applying a curse that could potentially harm tenants that move in after you.
Yeah, I wasn't thinking further than her family. She said she has to do what's best for her family, which means to her evicting us and giving the apartment to her son and daughter. I'm now thinking that if she loses this case she's responsible for court and lawyer's fees. That can be pretty hefty.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah, I wasn't thinking further than her family. She said she has to do what's best for her family, which means to her evicting us and giving the apartment to her son and daughter. I'm now thinking that if she loses this case she's responsible for court and lawyer's fees. That can be pretty hefty.
In that case, she's doing herself harm by not following proper procedure. Perhaps there's no need for a curse.

The son and daughter may or may not have an idea what's going on.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
In that case, she's doing herself harm by not following proper procedure. Perhaps there's no need for a curse.

The son and daughter may or may not have an idea what's going on.
That's why I'm now thinking let nature/karma take its course. What happened in the Itihasas and Puranas doesn't mean we should do the same. This is why I'm glad I broached the subject here. :)
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Gandhari cursed Krishna for what she perceived to be his inaction in saving her sons during the Kurukshetra War. He willingly accepted the curse though he did/didn't do what was required for dharma. Gandhari accused him of "throwing the first punch".

Do we have a right to curse someone for what we perceive to be a wrong done to us, or to curse a person we feel "threw the first punch"? That is, doing something that by all accounts is unjust, even according to third party persons and the law.

I'll try to be brief (ha! as if! :D) ... my landlord sent a nebulous email a couple of months ago asking my husband and me to vacate the condo unit we are renting from her. The notice-to-quit had no reason in it though NJ law requires a good cause reason: non-payment of rent, illegal activities, and a few other reasons.

NJ is very tenant-friendly; it is difficult to evict someone in NJ. None of those reasons apply to us. Rent is current, for example; landlord even wrote, when I asked if we did something wrong: "Oh no, you're great tenants". Now, I have the legal right to tell her nope, we're not moving.

Needless to say, she got nasty bordering on abusive and accusatory. She admitted in writing that she didn't follow legal procedures but would do so now. When I pressed her for a reason she said she and her ex-husband were going to sell the unit. But even that has restrictions on eviction. So she filed suit in court for an eviction. In the court papers she changed her reason and said she wants her 20something son and daughter to move in. That is a gross violation of the NJ law. After an eviction only the owner can move in, not family members. I think she is very naive and is being given bad advice by her attorney. We have legal representation and have gotten hopeful advice. In a nutshell we don't think she will win; we hope she won't. At the least we'll be given a fairly long time to remain in order to save for moving expenses, possibly up to a year.

Anyway, while on the face of it this isn't directly related to Hinduism itself or dharma (well, maybe dharma) it goes to my question about cursing a person or even this unit once we leave) because of what I consider adharmic treatment by my landlord. I don't like playing with dark forces or energies but I'm simply thinking of telling her "Here are the keys. I curse you that you and your family, whom you say you are looking out for, will never have a moment's peace or happiness in this apartment, or with any money you get if you sell it. You will have nothing but problems with the property. You unjustly claimed that my actions affected your health; your own actions in this matter will adversely affect your health even more".

So the question is, should I even bother or just let karma work its magic, that is, let nature take its course?
By all means do what you must within the confines of law, but to curse someone would be adharmic. Then it would be your new karma.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Gandhari cursed Krishna for what she perceived to be his inaction in saving her sons during the Kurukshetra War. He willingly accepted the curse though he did/didn't do what was required for dharma. Gandhari accused him of "throwing the first punch".

Austerities performed creates within us the power of Tapas, which is essentially to develop equanimity of mind. The power of austerity within also can aid in bringing about situations and circumstances of an auspicious or favorable nature.

Such Tapaswins can also bless others by transferring the power of austerity to them or curse others by using this power to bring about unfavorable or inauspicious circumstances .

GAndhari had developed great power of austerity by her chastity, self-denial and blind-folding herself in consideration of her blind husband.

After the war, Krishna was aware that Gandhari could curse the Pandavas for killing her children in combat, and so he willingly took Gandhari's curse on himself.

Gandhari had developed great power of austerity through years of self-denial but wasted it in cursing Krishna. Ideally, she should have accepted Krishna as a mentor or Guru, and following his instructions on yoga, could have attained Self-realization very swiftly on account of her tremondous power of austerities.

However she was incapable of emotional self-regulation necessary for clear thinking and correct action. Hence her emotions got the better of her, and she pursued a wrong and irrational course of action.

By cursing Krishna, she only cursed herself many times over, because whatever you give to the divine you will get many times over.

If she had blessed the Pandavas instead, on account of their virtuous conduct, she would have blessed Dharma itself and that would have been a meritorious deed as well on her part.

This incident shows that having great power of austerity is not necessarily a good thing to have. Ravana also developed great power of austerities setting the foundation for his conquests and vices.

The power of austerity is safe only in a person wedded to virtuous conduct and he or she will know prudently whom to bless and so on.


Anyway, while on the face of it this isn't directly related to Hinduism itself or dharma (well, maybe dharma) it goes to my question about cursing a person or even this unit once we leave) because of what I consider adharmic treatment by my landlord. I don't like playing with dark forces or energies but I'm simply thinking of telling her "Here are the keys. I curse you that you and your family, whom you say you are looking out for, will never have a moment's peace or happiness in this apartment, or with any money you get if you sell it. You will have nothing but problems with the property. You unjustly claimed that my actions affected your health; your own actions in this matter will adversely affect your health even more".

So the question is, should I even bother or just let karma work its magic, that is, let nature take its course?

By cursing out of hatred, you will lose your power of austerity in the process. By forgiving you will further enhance it, as all virtues are austerities in themselves.

The purpose of austerity is also to bring about mental equanimity necessary for auspiciousness in general and Self-realization.

Hatred is a vice that will agitate the mind instead of enhancing mental equanimity. For this reason, it is said that angry people usually have bad luck constantly. It is their own mental imbalance that is attracting inauspicious circumstances.

Just consider the incident as occurring due to past karmas and be grateful that you could exhaust them and begin a new chapter.

Reactivity and hatred however perpetuates the karmic cycle and you will experience more of the same.

You can go through these threads of mine for reference...


 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
By all means do what you must within the confines of law, but to curse someone would be adharmic. Then it would be your new karma.
I kind of thought so. I'm glad I asked first, before doing anything to affect my karma. I'm probably going to be reborn for many lifetimes as an artichoke or centipede as it is. :disappointed:
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
By cursing out of hatred, you will lose your power of austerity in the process. By forgiving you will further enhance it, as all virtues are austerities in themselves.
Good and educational points. It's really all pretty intricate I see. In my case it's probably more out of anger ... I really don't hate anyone, I never have, I may hate the actions but not the person. Forgiveness on the other hand ... I can't think of anyone I haven't forgiven for things they've done to me. And plenty of people have hurt me in my lifetime. Holding grudges is almost as damaging to oneself as hatred. It probably is best to go about our business and act within the law and let karma and nature takes its course.
 
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