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A Few Bad Apples?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Valjean, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    American police have been getting a lot of negative publicity lately, Minorities distrust them, while the Right insists most are good and conscientious, with only a few outliers.
    So, in today's news: Court Vindicates Black Officer Fired for Stopping Colleague’s Chokehold

    A good and conscientious cop penalized for being good and conscientious; for stopping a bad cop brutalizing a handcuffed man.

    Now, if a cop fails to stop another cop's misbehavior, or looks the other way, or fails to report it, doesn't that make him a bad cop? And when the whole department's complicit, doesn't that make the whole police force bad cops? Are there, in fact, only a few good apples?

    Discuss.
     
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  2. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but, as your example shows, the police is actively doing something against it.
     
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  3. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Fifteen years later....
     
  4. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    The bad apples do not represent a category that has always protected and served.
    Clearly there should be more selection in order to reduce the number of bad apples but the great majority of law enforcement are great, imho.
     
  5. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    There is that infamous 'blue wall' strongly upheld by the unions that protect fellow officers. Doesn't make easy for one officer to 'turn' on another. But I do think there is change, even if ever so slowly.
     
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  6. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Very few bad apples!

    In 2019 there were 10,085,207 arrests in America. 60,000+ assaults' on cops, 424 W killed 252 Blacks killed, 167 Hispanic killed, 48 officers killed by citizens.
     
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  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Death statistics don't tell the whole story.
    Cops also rob, rape, beat, falsely arrest, insult, threaten,
    & otherwise abuse civilians. These instances far far far
    outnumber killings. And they get away with the majority
    by having only other cops as witnesses, by lying about
    their actions, & by turning off cameras.
    I personally know people who've been beaten, robbed,
    & sexually assaulted by cops. They got no justice.
    BTW, they're all white. It's a bigger problem than race.
     
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  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Police unions follow the wishes of their members.

    Members are the ones who elect the union leadership. Members are the ones who ratify collective agreements.

    Police unions reflect at least the majority of the members they represent. When a police union protects a cop who's a killer or racist (or both), it's because that's how most of the members in that local wanted these cases to be handled.
     
  9. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    I've also encountered crooked cops, but I don't consider them all crooked.
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Of course not all.
     
  11. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I can't say how many cops are good apples vs. bad apples. Maybe it's the unions who protect them, although oftentimes, I see the media and even some liberals try to run interference for the cops whenever someone criticizes them. The courts have also protected them with qualified immunity.

    Maybe there's a way to allow citizens to have qualified immunity. For example, if one of the bystanders in the Floyd case had pulled Chauvin off of Floyd in order to save Floyd's life, that bystander should be immune from prosecution as long as he sincerely believed that he was saving a life from a crooked cop. Cops seem to have a great deal of leeway from the courts if they believed their life was in danger, so why not extend that same courtesy to common citizens?
     
  12. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if cops had tranquilizing darts instead of bullets?
     
  13. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    source please?
     
  14. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    You forgot civil forfeiture, a.k.a. legal robbery.
     
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  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I didn't forget.
    Civil forfeiture is just one of their tools.
     
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  16. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I can feel the pride oozing out of my pores.
    A 17:1 kill ratio for the "serve and protect" crowd.
     
  17. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

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    Which is emblematic of the real problem.
     
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  18. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    When you give someone authority, you give them power over others. And when you do that, there will be some, with the bully personality, who will abuse that authority. That's true whether they are policemen or school teachers.

    The best solution is that when you create authority, you create a stringent oversight process to limit the abuse. Of the 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the USA, we can bet that there's 10% doing a fine job of oversight. The problem is that the federal government hasn't the power to use that 10% as exemplars and implement changes countrywide.
     
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  19. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    I always wonder why anyone who use this turn of phrase doesn't use the full saying:
    A few bad apples spoils the bunch.

    As in, keeping and protecting a minority of bad apples will corrupt the entire basket. If flawed apples are accepted, the entire institution is flawed.
     
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  20. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    How about electrical darts?
     
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