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A Few Bad Apples?

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
American police have been getting a lot of negative publicity lately, Minorities distrust them, while the Right insists most are good and conscientious, with only a few outliers.
So, in today's news: Court Vindicates Black Officer Fired for Stopping Colleague’s Chokehold

A good and conscientious cop penalized for being good and conscientious; for stopping a bad cop brutalizing a handcuffed man.

Now, if a cop fails to stop another cop's misbehavior, or looks the other way, or fails to report it, doesn't that make him a bad cop? And when the whole department's complicit, doesn't that make the whole police force bad cops? Are there, in fact, only a few good apples?

Discuss.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The bad apples do not represent a category that has always protected and served.
Clearly there should be more selection in order to reduce the number of bad apples but the great majority of law enforcement are great, imho.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Now, if a cop fails to stop another cop's misbehavior, or looks the other way, or fails to report it, doesn't that make him a bad cop? And when the whole department's complicit, doesn't that make the whole police force bad cops? Are there, in fact, only a few good apples?

There is that infamous 'blue wall' strongly upheld by the unions that protect fellow officers. Doesn't make easy for one officer to 'turn' on another. But I do think there is change, even if ever so slowly.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Very few bad apples!

In 2019 there were 10,085,207 arrests in America. 60,000+ assaults' on cops, 424 W killed 252 Blacks killed, 167 Hispanic killed, 48 officers killed by citizens.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Very few bad apples!

In 2019 there were 10,085,207 arrests in America. 60,000+ assaults' on cops, 424 W killed 252 Blacks killed, 167 Hispanic killed, 48 officers killed by citizens.
Death statistics don't tell the whole story.
Cops also rob, rape, beat, falsely arrest, insult, threaten,
& otherwise abuse civilians. These instances far far far
outnumber killings. And they get away with the majority
by having only other cops as witnesses, by lying about
their actions, & by turning off cameras.
I personally know people who've been beaten, robbed,
& sexually assaulted by cops. They got no justice.
BTW, they're all white. It's a bigger problem than race.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
There is that infamous 'blue wall' strongly upheld by the unions that protect fellow officers. Doesn't make easy for one officer to 'turn' on another. But I do think there is change, even if ever so slowly.
Police unions follow the wishes of their members.

Members are the ones who elect the union leadership. Members are the ones who ratify collective agreements.

Police unions reflect at least the majority of the members they represent. When a police union protects a cop who's a killer or racist (or both), it's because that's how most of the members in that local wanted these cases to be handled.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Death statistics don't tell the whole story.
Cops also rob, rape, beat, falsely arrest, insult, threaten,
& otherwise abuse civilians. These instances far far far
outnumber killings. And they get away with the majority
by having only other cops as witnesses, by lying about
their actions, & by turning off cameras.
I personally know people who've been beaten, robbed,
& sexually assaulted by cops. They got no justice.
BTW, they're all white. It's a bigger problem than race.
I've also encountered crooked cops, but I don't consider them all crooked.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
American police have been getting a lot of negative publicity lately, Minorities distrust them, while the Right insists most are good and conscientious, with only a few outliers.
So, in today's news: Court Vindicates Black Officer Fired for Stopping Colleague’s Chokehold

A good and conscientious cop penalized for being good and conscientious; for stopping a bad cop brutalizing a handcuffed man.

Now, if a cop fails to stop another cop's misbehavior, or looks the other way, or fails to report it, doesn't that make him a bad cop? And when the whole department's complicit, doesn't that make the whole police force bad cops? Are there, in fact, only a few good apples?

Discuss.

I can't say how many cops are good apples vs. bad apples. Maybe it's the unions who protect them, although oftentimes, I see the media and even some liberals try to run interference for the cops whenever someone criticizes them. The courts have also protected them with qualified immunity.

Maybe there's a way to allow citizens to have qualified immunity. For example, if one of the bystanders in the Floyd case had pulled Chauvin off of Floyd in order to save Floyd's life, that bystander should be immune from prosecution as long as he sincerely believed that he was saving a life from a crooked cop. Cops seem to have a great deal of leeway from the courts if they believed their life was in danger, so why not extend that same courtesy to common citizens?
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Very few bad apples!

In 2019 there were 10,085,207 arrests in America. 60,000+ assaults' on cops, 424 W killed 252 Blacks killed, 167 Hispanic killed, 48 officers killed by citizens.
Wow, I can feel the pride oozing out of my pores.
A 17:1 kill ratio for the "serve and protect" crowd.
 

tas8831

Well-Known Member
Police unions follow the wishes of their members.

Members are the ones who elect the union leadership. Members are the ones who ratify collective agreements.

Police unions reflect at least the majority of the members they represent. When a police union protects a cop who's a killer or racist (or both), it's because that's how most of the members in that local wanted these cases to be handled.
Which is emblematic of the real problem.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
When you give someone authority, you give them power over others. And when you do that, there will be some, with the bully personality, who will abuse that authority. That's true whether they are policemen or school teachers.

The best solution is that when you create authority, you create a stringent oversight process to limit the abuse. Of the 17,000 law enforcement agencies in the USA, we can bet that there's 10% doing a fine job of oversight. The problem is that the federal government hasn't the power to use that 10% as exemplars and implement changes countrywide.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I always wonder why anyone who use this turn of phrase doesn't use the full saying:
A few bad apples spoils the bunch.

As in, keeping and protecting a minority of bad apples will corrupt the entire basket. If flawed apples are accepted, the entire institution is flawed.
 
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