12 Step Programs & the First Amendment

[linwood]

Just FYI:

"Atheists and agnostics are, in fact, able to benefit from 12 Step recovery programs. The only requirement for membership in a 12 Step program is the desire for the person to stop using their drug of choice (including alcohol). It is not required that a person believe in God; however it suggested that a person be able to believe in a power greater than themselves. That power, usually referred to as a Higher Power, may be the collective members of a 12 Step group or the fellowship, one's own understanding or belief system in some form of divine entity, the power of nature, and so on. Many addicts, while actively using and/or abusing drugs or alcohol certainly behaved as if these same drugs and/or alcohol were powers greater than themselves."

Twelve Step Programs for Atheists and Agnostics - Living Sober Network Addiction Article

Yes, I just finished reading the section in AA`s handbook entitled "We Agnostics".
It seems more than a bit demeaning to humanity and not something a philosophical atheist would consider at all.

However I did just find a list of mostly UU churches that hold twelve step AA meetings with atheistic content.

DISCLAIMER: This list of meetings is included on this web site as a service to recovering alcoholics who may prefer meetings with an agnostic orientation. The list has been compiled mostly from published meeting books and online listings based largely on the names of the groups. In most cases, these meetings have not given us approval to list them here, and we don't know what these meeting are really like. The publication of this list has not been authorized or endorsed by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc. or the General Service Office of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Worldwide Agnostic A.A. Meetings

Impressive.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is not required that a person believe in God; however it suggested that a person be able to believe in a power greater than themselves. That power, usually referred to as a Higher Power, may be the collective members of a 12 Step group or the fellowship, one's own understanding or belief system in some form of divine entity, the power of nature, and so on.

Exactly how would an atheist come up with a Higher Power that makes sense in the context of step 3 (turning our will and lives over to the care of our Higher Power), step 6 (being entirely ready for our Higher Power to remove all our defects of character), step 7 (humbly asking our Higher Power to remove our shortcomings), and step 11 (seeking to improve contact with our Higher Power through prayer and meditiation)?

And frankly, if you put the 12 step group in there in place of the "Higher Power", it makes the group sound like a cult.

 

[gnomon]

As others have already appointed out there have been a number of appellate cases determining that mandated 12 step treatment is a violation of an individuals first amendment rights.

However, since these are appellate cases no move has been made to translate this into law considering that one of the primary resources for new AA membership is court mandated attendance.

One thing must be made fair to many AA groups. There was a recognition that my first home group made for those people mandated to attend by the courts. Just listen and make up your own mind but just remember to have your little card signed at the end of every meeting. In other words, it was one group that understood individuals were forced to be there and there was never any compunction to convince those individuals, anywhere from people who probably were addicts to some kid who was caught with their first joint, nor did they try to run people off. I wish the same was for most of the different groups I attended.

AA is a religious organization. There is no weaseling out of it by definition although any individual's experience would differ by group. I remember my roommate at the halfway house which I lived in remarking to me, in response to me noting an individual who recovered without AA and been sober over 30 years, that the individual must be miserable because no one recovers without the 12 steps. His indoctrination was almost cult like, for a self professed agnostic atheist and Marxist, that I was more than disturbed by that conversation. What happened to me later I think opened him to be more skeptical of the dogma and Wilson worship by FOB's.

Exactly how would an atheist come up with a Higher Power that makes sense in the context of step 3 (turning our will and lives over to the care of our Higher Power), step 6 (being entirely ready for our Higher Power to remove all our defects of character), step 7 (humbly asking our Higher Power to remove our shortcomings), and step 11 (seeking to improve contact with our Higher Power through prayer and meditiation)?

The most common way is to avoid supernatural higher powers and use the community itself as a higher power for step 3. A sort of collective authority on wisdom. Not too bad until you get into later steps with those who hold a religious version of a higher power.

In the end, courts should not be mandating solely AA as a means of recovery. There are a number of organizations that exist to help people with substance abuse. Unfortunately, most of the hospitals for addicts are based off the AA model of recovery. While it does work for some, especially those already leaning towards spirituality and work well within groups and an open environment, they are not always the best especially for those with mental disabilities because the experience of schizophrenics and manic-depressives can be the opposite of those who develop a substance addiction. When forced into that environment it may not only be non-productive but literally life threatening.

A need for a greater diversity of options and the law following along with the expanding number of groups will be better.

 

[Zephyr]

Not a criticism of YOU, Scott, but that's how it strikes me.

Off-topic, but this picture is awesome. Saved.

 

[Scott1]

Exactly how would an atheist come up with a Higher Power that makes sense in the context of step 3 (turning our will and lives over to the care of our Higher Power), step 6 (being entirely ready for our Higher Power to remove all our defects of character), step 7 (humbly asking our Higher Power to remove our shortcomings), and step 11 (seeking to improve contact with our Higher Power through prayer and meditiation)?

The article seemed to answer these questions to my satisfaction... not sure how better to explain it to you, sorry.

And frankly, if you put the 12 step group in there in place of the "Higher Power", it makes the group sound like a cult.

Frankly, the people I met in group have been more of a "higher power" and made a much more positive impact on my recovery than my personal faith in God. The most important thing to remember is that the "mission" of these groups is to assist the addict in beating their addiction.... the 12 steps are a "tool" towards that goal which work (IMO) and still work for the numerous friends I've made in recovery who did not --- and STILL do not --- have any kind of "religious" faith in God.

I know some people who object ... but it seems silly to me... but when I was an atheist, I had no problem taking an oath that stated "so help me God"... it seemed to me no more than a quaint formality --- not a personal attack on my freedom not to worship... but I do understand some people are less tolerant of those sort of situations.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The article seemed to answer these questions to my satisfaction... not sure how better to explain it to you, sorry.

Frankly, the people I met in group have been more of a "higher power" and made a much more positive impact on my recovery than my personal faith in God. The most important thing to remember is that the "mission" of these groups is to assist the addict in beating their addiction.... the 12 steps are a "tool" towards that goal which work (IMO) and still work for the numerous friends I've made in recovery who did not --- and STILL do not --- have any kind of "religious" faith in God.

Fair enough... but when I think to myself what there is that could fill the place of a "higher power" and do all of the things I would ask of it in a 12-step program, I can't think of anything I actually believe in that would fit the bill for me.

I may be overly sensitive to the cult issue, though, based on personal experiences with cult-like organizations (which is a long story probably best saved for another thread). For me, the idea of setting up a situation where a person is dependent on the group for purpose and self-worth sets off all sorts of alarm bells.

I know some people who object ... but it seems silly to me... but when I was an atheist, I had no problem taking an oath that stated "so help me God"... it seemed to me no more than a quaint formality --- not a personal attack on my freedom not to worship... but I do understand some people are less tolerant of those sort of situations.

I think in this case, it depends on your point of view. IMO, given my personal beliefs, there isn't anything I would honestly think could fulfil the role of the higher power in steps 6 or 7. I suppose I'd be able to go through the motions without really believing in what I was doing, but wouldn't that go against the purpose of this sort of program?

 

[Scott1]

Fair enough... but when I think to myself what there is that could fill the place of a "higher power" and do all of the things I would ask of it in a 12-step program, I can't think of anything I actually believe in that would fit the bill for me.

What "fits" for you might be different if you were a addict at "rock bottom" ... I don't know too many participants in programs who worry about such things... their main concern is cleaning up, and they will do whatever it takes to do so... for some, this desire becomes their "higher power"... quite simply, faith in themselves.

I suppose I'd be able to go through the motions without really believing in what I was doing, but wouldn't that go against the purpose of this sort of program?

The purpose, as I've stated, is to get clean... and as long as this happens, I don't know anyone who would be bothered if, for instance, 99.9% of those who complete the program and are clean for life become atheists.

Yes, some operate it as a religious/Christian program, but IMO those sort of programs should only be for those who already profess religious/Christian faith and NO ONE should ever be forced to be involved (i.e. by court order) to participate in such an environment against their will.