1 Corinthians 13:13.What does it mean to you?

[Frank Goad]

1 Corinthians 13:13.What does it mean to you?I think it is a list of good things that a christian should focus on.

 

[exchemist]

1 Corinthians 13:13.What does it mean to you?I think it is a list of good things that a christian should focus on.

I think this is St. Paul in one of his more lucid moments. There are not that many.

But let's get a translation in modern English: "As it is, these remain: faith, hope and love, the three of them; and the greatest of them is love."

This comes at the end of chapter 13, subtitled in my bible "hymn to love". The whole chapter is devoted to pointing out the futility of the fulfilment of all other requirements of Christianity, if love is absent.

This, I feel, must be true - and also, for a rather misanthropic person like me, very hard to live up to.

(On reflection, I wonder if he is also wanting to draw a deliberate contrast with the rather legalistic approach of the old religion of Judaism that was his own background - or else with the prevailing religion of the time in Corinth.)

 

[metis]

1 Corinthians 13:13.What does it mean to you?I think it is a list of good things that a christian should focus on.

Love ("agape" in Koine Greek), was what Jesus' message was mainly about, namely "love one another as I have loved you". If we all did this, I do believe the world would be a much better place.

 

[Triumph]

Paul was skilled in the craft of religious poetry. Brilliant, crafty man. He was intelligent making religion his profession forming a new church that did not follow the 12 Apostles that taught the doctrine of Jesus. Paul mixed the old wine with the new wine and destroyed the true religion in doing so as he formed an apostate, inferior church, rejecting the true church. The true church called Paul a sinner for it.
Galatians 1:13
For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:"
Never forget Paul slaughtered innocent Christians sometimes breaking into their homes and Paul threw innocent people into prison.
Paul speaks of the horrors he committed but never shows an iota of remorse or repentance. Paul has no sympathy for the lives he destroyed and said he just forgets about those people like they were nothing. Paul never says he regrets anything he did.
In the temple Jesus said the people that want to kill him do not love God, do not love Jesus and are not the people of God.
Pharisee Paul agreed Jesus should die and teaches God wanted Jesus to die which is not what Jesus said.
Jesus taught people are never to curse.
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

But what does Paul do?
Galatians 1: 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Paul is cursing Jesus because their gospels are different, but Paul is so sly about it people do not notice.
Paul also said,
Romans 12:14
"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not."
So Paul curses but tells other people not to curse so he will sound righteous. Also, Paul often contradicts himself.

Jesus said he is the son of God but Paul calls Jesus the son of Abraham. In the temple Jesus denied being a son of Abraham so Paul lies about Jesus. Paul does not believe in a virgin birth so believes Joseph is the biological father of Jesus.

Matthew 19:18
He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,"
Telling people Jesus is the seed of Abraham, son of David is bearing false witness.

Apostle Peter called Paul "beloved brother" because Jesus taught Peter to love his enemy.

Paul did say a lot of beautiful verses, but it was icing that covered his false doctrine that denied what Jesus said is true. Paul's conversion is pretense, and he is a self-appointed Apostle that refuses to release his title of Pharisee. A lot of Paul's messages just repeated OT scripture in his attempt to lead people back into Jewish beliefs and laws that Jesus had rejected and was leading people away from believing.

 

[metis]

Paul did say a lot of beautiful verses, but it was icing that covered his false doctrine that denied what Jesus said is true. Paul's conversion is pretense, and he is a self-appointed Apostle that refuses to release his title of Pharisee.

That's highly unlikely because, if that were true, the Twelve would have had nothing to do with him, especially with his past.

 

[74x12]

1 Corinthians 13:13.What does it mean to you?I think it is a list of good things that a christian should focus on.

You're basically right. Those 3 things will keep people with God and keep them from straying. God gives a little bit of each and they have to be grown and cultivated.

 

[Triumph]

That's highly unlikely because, if that were true, the Twelve would have had nothing to do with him, especially with his past.

The true Apostles desired Paul to convert and be saved. They did not want to abandon a sinner. They were happy to give Paul advice based on what Jesus taught them because Paul did not know what Jesus taught having not followed him as he gave sermons. If the Apostles told Paul what Paul did not want to believe, Paul ignored it and would do what Paul wanted to do. For example, the Apostles told Paul that circumcision as a religious ritual is not done in the true church so Paul went out and circumcised a Greek man's son turning him into a spiritual Jew supporting the covenant of Abraham that Paul refused to stop believing was true. Paul's gospel/church is based on the Abrahamic covenant. The gospel, church of the Living God, that Jesus established is not.
God gives so many clues that the gospel of Paul is wrong. Jesus called the sons of Abraham that supported the Abrahamic covenant and believed in blood sacrifice for sin removal, "vipers". Paul was blind with scales on his eyes after his lie of seeing Jesus on the road to Damascus. Blind, Paul did not eat or drink for days until the scales fell off.
Real serpents, snakes shed their skin and are blind for 3 to 5 days as the cloudy scales loosen and fall from their eyes and during that time they do not eat or drink. Then they slither out of their old skin, still the exact same viper with poison in their mouth that kills people but with a fresh new garment to appear new and attractive.

 

[74x12]

The true Apostles desired Paul to convert and be saved. They did not want to abandon a sinner. They were happy to give Paul advice based on what Jesus taught them because Paul did not know what Jesus taught having not followed him as he gave sermons. If the Apostles told Paul what Paul did not want to believe, Paul ignored it and would do what Paul wanted to do. For example, the Apostles told Paul that circumcision as a religious ritual is not done in the true church so Paul went out and circumcised a Greek man's son turning him into a spiritual Jew supporting the covenant of Abraham that Paul refused to stop believing was true. Paul's gospel/church is based on the Abrahamic covenant. The gospel, church of the Living God, that Jesus established is not.
God gives so many clues that the gospel of Paul is wrong. Jesus called the sons of Abraham that supported the Abrahamic covenant and believed in blood sacrifice for sin removal, "vipers". Paul was blind with scales on his eyes after his lie of seeing Jesus on the road to Damascus. Blind, Paul did not eat or drink for days until the scales fell off.
Real serpents, snakes shed their skin and are blind for 3 to 5 days as the scales loosen and fall from their eyes and during that time they do not eat or drink. Then they slither out of their old skin, still the exact same viper with poison in their mouth that kills people but with a fresh new garment to appear new and attractive.

So you say Paul is the devil.

Matthew 10:25
It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

 

[metis]

The true Apostles desired Paul to convert and be saved.

Which he did.

If the Apostles told Paul what Paul did not want to believe, Paul ignored it and would do what Paul wanted to do.

False. We know from scripture that Paul met with Peter and the others at least three times, plus there were letters sent back and forth [some with money]-- how many cannot be determined.

The only real friction was between Paul and James, but that may have just been because of Paul's frequent use of hyperbole in his writings [and probably speech as well], especially over the issue of salvation and "faith" and "works".

 

[Triumph]

The true Apostles desired Paul to convert and be saved. They did not want to abandon a sinner. They were happy to give Paul advice based on what Jesus taught them because Paul did not know what Jesus taught having not followed him as he gave sermons. If the Apostles told Paul what Paul did not want to believe, Paul ignored it and would do what Paul wanted to do. For example, the Apostles told Paul that circumcision as a religious ritual is not done in the true church so Paul went out and circumcised a Greek man's son turning him into a spiritual Jew supporting the covenant of Abraham that Paul refused to stop believing was true. Paul's gospel/church is based on the Abrahamic covenant. The gospel, church of the Living God, that Jesus established is not.
God gives so many clues that the gospel of Paul is wrong. Jesus called the sons of Abraham that supported the Abrahamic covenant and believed in blood sacrifice for sin removal, "vipers". Paul was blind with scales on his eyes after his lie of seeing Jesus on the road to Damascus. Blind, Paul did not eat or drink for days until the scales fell off.
Acts 9:9
And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
Real serpents, snakes shed their skin and are blind for 3 to 5 days as the cloudy scales loosen and fall from their eyes and during that time they do not eat or drink. Then they slither out of their old skin, still the exact same viper with poison in their mouth that kills people but with a fresh new garment to appear new and attractive.

In addition, people that want to handle real poisonous snakes in their religion to prove they won't die from it are not understanding scripture.
James 3:8
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison".
The blood of Jesus is the words of God and we are to drink= take into our life for nourishment, those words and have faith in them as truth. The flesh and blood of Jesus are his symbolic words for the Holy Words of Truth from God.
John 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed."
To be able to drink poison and not die from it means you can listen to deadly false doctrine but not believe in it or support it.

 

[Triumph]

So you say Paul is the devil.

Matthew 10:25
It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

I say Paul sins as he teaches false doctrine and is an antichrist because he does not believe in a virgin birth so denies Father and son. Paul insists the Christ is the seed of Abraham, but Jesus denies the Christ is the seed of Abraham. Paul tells us Abraham is the Father of us all, but Jesus says Abraham is not the father of us all. Paul wants to create a Christ in Paul's image, a son of Abraham, what Paul wants people to believe to follow the traditions of his Pharisee father.
Paul never mentioned the name of Mary, the mother of Jesus, or John the Baptist, the man that Jesus exalted as the greatest man born of a woman. Paul curses John the Baptist because they do not have the same gospel. Paul cursed the Angel Gabriel that told of the birth of John and Jesus because Paul does not believe water baptism removes sin (that at the same time is removing belief in human sacrifice to a God) nor does Paul believe in a virgin birth because Joseph had to fornicate with Mary before marriage in order for Jesus to be of the bloodline of David, son of Abraham. Paul does his best to weaken the concept of water baptism, so it holds no importance when the truth is it is a COMMANDMENT from GOD to do it and believe it. Paul claims he is baptized but he never reveals if he means an actual water baptism believing water not actual blood is for the remission of sin. Jesus never said my death will remove sin. He did say it is the words of God that save.
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Human sacrifice to a God is demonic but it is the foundation of Paul's gospel.

 

[Triumph]

Which he did.

False. We know from scripture that Paul met with Peter and the others at least three times, plus there were letters sent back and forth [some with money]-- how many cannot be determined.

The only real friction was between Paul and James, but that may have just been because of Paul's frequent use of hyperbole in his writings [and probably speech as well], especially over the issue of salvation and "faith" and "works".

From the start of his preaching as an "Apostle", Paul refused to do what God required. Followers of Jesus were told to first go to Jerusalem to receive Holy Spirit before going out to preach. But Paul tells us he did not do that before going out to preach his own version of religion in the desert for 3 years. So, his first act was one of disobedience to God and Paul was preaching without Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is given to those that obey God, but Paul only claims he obeys God while he does not. First a person has to believe in water baptism for remission of sin forsaking belief in blood sacrifice and then they receive Holy Spirit. Understanding the true words of God by the voice of Jesus fills you with Holy Spirit/Ghost.
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Galatians 1:18
"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days."
I assure you that Peter was spending those 15 days trying to convert Paul and stop his false doctrine. Peter and the true Apostles never called Paul an Apostle because they know he is not one.
NOTE in Galatians 1, Paul is bragging about his deep knowledge of the Hebrew/Jewish religion and how he profits from it.
Paul also believes the Christ is a son of Abraham that is revealed by the birth of Paul as a son of Abraham. Paul considers himself born holy already in the correct religion given knowledge of the Son by traditions of his religion. Paul loves those blood sacrifice for sin beliefs. He conferred with no man before starting out, because in Jerusalem they would not accept Paul's beliefs since they know the truth Jesus taught. Paul is determined to preach his own Blood Sacrifice and inequality of race and gender beliefs to the heathen without any knowledge of the gospel of Jesus or Holy Spirit from God.

 

[74x12]

I say Paul sins as he teaches false doctrine and is an antichrist because he does not believe in a virgin birth so denies Father and son. Paul insists the Christ is the seed of Abraham, but Jesus denies the Christ is the seed of Abraham. Paul tells us Abraham is the Father of us all, but Jesus says Abraham is not the father of us all. Paul wants to create a Christ in Paul's image, a son of Abraham, what Paul wants people to believe to follow the traditions of his Pharisee father.
Paul never mentioned the name of Mary, the mother of Jesus, or John the Baptist, the man that Jesus exalted as the greatest man born of a woman. Paul curses John the Baptist because they do not have the same gospel. Paul cursed the Angel Gabriel that told of the birth of John and Jesus because Paul does not believe water baptism removes sin (that at the same time is removing belief in human sacrifice to a God) nor does Paul believe in a virgin birth because Joseph had to fornicate with Mary before marriage in order for Jesus to be of the bloodline of David, son of Abraham. Paul does his best to weaken the concept of water baptism, so it holds no importance when the truth is it is a COMMANDMENT from GOD to do it and believe it. Paul claims he is baptized but he never reveals if he means an actual water baptism believing water not actual blood is for the remission of sin. Jesus never said my death will remove sin. He did say it is the words of God that save.
Galatians 1:8
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Human sacrifice to a God is demonic but it is the foundation of Paul's gospel.

I disagree with your doctrine. I think you're misunderstanding too many key points of scripture here ...

 

[Triumph]

Which he did.

False. We know from scripture that Paul met with Peter and the others at least three times, plus there were letters sent back and forth [some with money]-- how many cannot be determined.

The only real friction was between Paul and James, but that may have just been because of Paul's frequent use of hyperbole in his writings [and probably speech as well], especially over the issue of salvation and "faith" and "works".

Paul claims being unmarried makes a person closer to God than a married person. Jesus chose Peter to be an Apostle teaching the Words of God and Peter is a married man. So, Paul claims he is closer to God than Apostle Peter and you think there would be no real friction there?
God never chose Paul because Paul is found in the house of Judas. Paul never sincerely converted from his old beliefs; Pharisee Paul just lies saying he did as Paul wants people to approve of the murder of Jesus for sins he did not commit. Paul insists Gentiles become spiritual circumcised Jews accepting the Jewish race as the chosen of God and the Davidic bloodline as chosen, so those people become false Jews because the Jews will not accept them, and Jesus rejects the entire concept of religious circumcision and the covenant.
Please note that Paul claims that it was Paul that brought Gentiles into the faith “the apostle to the Gentiles” in Romans 11:13 when Jesus and the true Apostles had been converting Gentiles as well as Hebrew/Jews from the beginning of their mission of preaching.
Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant,> Jesus < whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles." Example: Jesus converted a Roman Centurian healing his sick child. The true religion never turned anyone away that sought truth, Jew or Gentile. "And in his name shall the Gentiles trust" The multitudes that gathered to listen to Jesus were not just Jews. Many Gentiles became water baptized disciples of Jesus given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:45
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."

 

[metis]

From the start of his preaching as an "Apostle", Paul refused to do what God required. Followers of Jesus were told to first go to Jerusalem to receive Holy Spirit before going out to preach. But Paul tells us he did not do that before going out to preach his own version of religion in the desert for 3 years. So, his first act was one of disobedience to God and Paul was preaching without Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is given to those that obey God, but Paul only claims he obeys God while he does not. First a person has to believe in water baptism for remission of sin forsaking belief in blood sacrifice and then they receive Holy Spirit. Understanding the true words of God by the voice of Jesus fills you with Holy Spirit/Ghost.
Mark 1:8
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."
Galatians 1:18
"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days."
I assure you that Peter was spending those 15 days trying to convert Paul and stop his false doctrine. Peter and the true Apostles never called Paul an Apostle because they know he is not one.
NOTE in Galatians 1, Paul is bragging about his deep knowledge of the Hebrew/Jewish religion and how he profits from it.
Paul also believes the Christ is a son of Abraham that is revealed by the birth of Paul as a son of Abraham. Paul considers himself born holy already in the correct religion given knowledge of the Son by traditions of his religion. Paul loves those blood sacrifice for sin beliefs. He conferred with no man before starting out, because in Jerusalem they would not accept Paul's beliefs since they know the truth Jesus taught. Paul is determined to preach his own Blood Sacrifice and inequality of race and gender beliefs to the heathen without any knowledge of the gospel of Jesus or Holy Spirit from God.

Again, you still cannot account for why the Apostles even gave Paul the time of day if he was some sort of outcast, especially with his past.

Also, there's the matter of early Church tradition and practice as to how is it possible that it circulated Paul's letters even prior to any other Church writings, at least as far as we know, if he was some sort of outcaste?

No, I've seen these charges numerous times before, but they simply do not add up.

 

[syo]

1 Corinthians 13:13.What does it mean to you?

Horrible. No.

 

[metis]

Paul claims being unmarried makes a person closer to God than a married person.

That's because Jesus was unmarried, and Paul considered his behavior to be the ideal. It also appears, imo, that Paul thought Jesus' return would occur "within this generation", thus marriage would not be necessary. However, in later letters he backs off on that and says it's OK to marry if one is "weak" and may slip into illicit sex.

 

[Triumph]

Again, you still cannot account for why the Apostles even gave Paul the time of day if he was some sort of outcast, especially with his past.

Also, there's the matter of early Church tradition and practice as to how is it possible that it circulated Paul's letters even prior to any other Church writings, at least as far as we know, if he was some sort of outcaste?

No, I've seen these charges numerous times before, but they simply do not add up.

Jesus commanded his Apostles to teach and convert and they were not going to reject a lost sheep no matter how evil he was.
Paul was invited into their churches and Paul robbed them. How many times were the followers of Jesus to forgive those that trespasses against them? 70 times 7, symbolically meaning as many times as it takes proving the door to salvation is always open for a person to learn truth with none turned away. Paul turned young widows and orphans away and they were innocent people in need, but Paul did not want them in his church. Jesus would never do that.
Paul brags he broke into the homes of Christians and as a thug brutalized them. No Jew was better at it than Paul, he said. It is logical he would search their homes for anything written down about their religious beliefs to use it as evidence they are rejecting the Jewish religion to have cause to throw those he doesn't murder into prison.
Those written words of Jesus would have been destroyed as the intent of Paul is to destroy the true church stopping the rise of Christianity. There are few written accounts of Jesus and the true Apostles because Paul destroyed the words of God. If you think God is pleased with Paul allowing him to go unpunished, think again because Paul is rejected in the kingdom of heaven but is found in the house of Judas with the condemned by God church robber Ananias that gave Paul the sight that if he was crafty enough, he could rob churches and get away with it.

 

[Triumph]

That's because Jesus was unmarried, and Paul considered his behavior to be the ideal. It also appears, imo, that Paul thought Jesus' return would occur "within this generation", thus marriage would not be necessary. However, in later letters he backs off on that and says it's OK to marry if one is "weak" and may slip into illicit sex.

That was Paul's own personal interpretation that being single is more approved than being married, not the opinion of Jesus or God.
2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
Note that ONLY Paul said being single was being closer to God than being married. The true Apostles never said that because it is not true. Being single did not make Jesus closer to God. Being ideal is being married with children. Jesus and Mary supported marriage. Had Mary never have had children then Jesus would never have been born. Paul is morally evil implying that Jesus was born of the desire for lust not the desire to be close to God. Paul is corrupt and a brilliant deceiver making his evil doctrine actually sound righteous.
In Genesis God Commanded humans to join and have children, fill the Earth with them. The command from God was not, stay single and not have children to be closer to Me so I will save your life. Paul does not serve God, he serves Paul, a man that enjoys having single men around him that he praises for rejecting women and that prefer to be with Paul that financially supports them, giving them titles and status in his church instead. Paul does not like having single women or children around him or around his male companions as Paul throws young widows and orphans out of his church. Jesus called Pharisee Paul a hypocrite and Paul's long prayers are in vain, a pretense of righteousness when none exists in him.
If everyone obeyed the gospel of Paul and not have children, then the human race would go extinct from lack of birth. Paul wants to be free to travel and get people to pay him for teaching lies about God and Jesus.
Paul is not Jesus and Paul did not hear the voice of God. I believe Jesus would have married had he not been murdered before he could do so. It is even possible that Jesus did marry but in a quiet ceremony, not given to public knowledge to prevent the attention of Jews that would desire to harm his wife. Jesus lived with the constant threat of being murdered by the Jews including Paul that demanded Jesus die and wants praise for accomplishing that murder from people that know not what they do.

 

[metis]

Paul was invited into their churches and Paul robbed them.

Before his conversion

Paul is not Jesus and Paul did not hear the voice of God.

And you cannot know that with any certainty that you're correct.

Anyhow, have a nice rest of the weekend.