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“The Son is equal to his Father”

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Kenny, who do you say created all things…?

The Great I AM - The Eloyhiim Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Just like when you type your response… who is creating it? You - Your spirit, your soul, AND your body.

Each part has a different purpose but all work together as one. :) Is that easy to understand?
If you believe it was Yeshua, then that’s what you believe - to you.
If you believe it was the Spirit of God, then it was the spirit of God - to you!

But the truth is that it was God; Yhwh; the only True God, who’s powerful Spirit enacted the creation:
  • ‘In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.’ (Psalm102:25)
  • “This is what the YHWH says— your Redeemer, who formed you in the womb: I am the YHWH, the Maker of all things, who stretches out the heavens, who spreads out the earth by myself,” (Isaiah 44:24)

Please refer back to first answer
Kenny, who was the psalmist addressing in that verse? Was it not YHWH, his God.

Is Yeshua’s NAME, ‘YHWH’… No, YHWH’s NAME is ‘YHWH’…

God gave his name to Moses as ‘YHWH’ - His name for all eternity.

The name of the Son of God is given to him BY YHWH through an angel as, ‘YESHUA’ - “For he shall save his people [The Jews / All believers]’’.
Yes… each part has a name.

Incidentally, I call what you refer to as YHWH - as…… “Father” and even “I love you daddy”. It is a relationship - not a formal introduction.
The Spirit of God is an Holy ‘Instrument’, the ENACTOR, the ACTIVE FORCE,

More than an active force, He is the person of The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. Like you have a spirit…. and a soul and a body.

with which YHWH created all things and acts upon things in the created world. God SPEAK, metaphorically, a word, and it is done as an action…Analogy: The human thought that results in an act through the body of a person.
Humans are Spirit in a body. We think an act, and our body performs that act.

There is no intermediatary second, let alone, third, ‘person’ - YHWH IS ONE, as Man is ONE in himself: Man is IMAGE of YHWH!!
EXACTLY! Man is ONE - but manifested in three - spirit, soul and body. Different purposes, different materiality but still you.
EXACTLY! YHWH - ELOYIM - manifested in three - Father, The Word and Son, and the Holy Spirit! Different purposes but still the great I AM

I think you are finally getting the picture

You do realise that taking the glory of YHWH and giving it to another, even the Son of man, is a sin?

Not when the glory is the Father giving it back to The Word...


"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

YHWH, the mighty God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon… created the world and everything in it FOR THE SON OF HIS LOVE

Kenny, believe the truth… not fallacy dictated by Trinitarian ideology.

You might want to revisit your understanding in light of all the scriptures I have given to your...

Remember… And the Word WAS God.
Many of the responses you gave to my questions show that you deviated from giving honest, holy, genuine answers. This shows you know the truth but just cannot bring yourself to admit it.
LOL… No… you just didn’t like my biblical answers.
Judging… it is YOU who judges yourself… Kenny. You judged yourself unworthy to present honest answers seeing that you knew you could not answer in sincerity - You are your own Judge… Kenny.
LOL… Again… apparently you didn’t like the answer in Romans… It is Christ that justifies.
 

Ajax

Active Member
Not at all… LOVE IT - all those are great scriptures! Do you need one explained because it created confusion

Not necessary, thank you, I can read English and Greek for the originals and can make up my mind.

What I want you to explain to me though is the following....

I understand that you claim God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one God and all three persons had a plan before the foundation of the world, that Jesus would save mankind through his crucifixion (1 Peter 1:18-20). If that is the case, and Jesus knew that he would be resurrected in three days, why didn't he want to go through with it? Why was he in agony, sweated heavily and even needed an angel from heaven to support him?
Compare his attitude with martyrs who gave their only life for Jesus, smiling.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Not necessary, thank you, I can read English and Greek for the originals and can make up my mind.
Great.
What I want you to explain to me though is the following....

I understand that you claim God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one God and all three persons had a plan before the foundation of the world, that Jesus would save mankind through his crucifixion (1 Peter 1:18-20). If that is the case, and Jesus knew that he would be resurrected in three days, why didn't he want to go through with it? Why was he in agony, sweated heavily and even needed an angel from heaven to support him?
Compare his attitude with martyrs who gave their only life for Jesus, smiling.

Good questions and big difference between martyrs and Jesus

Why it was more difficult to go through than the martyrs?

Well, physically speaking, martyrs have never had to pray through their difficulty to the point that the capillaries on the forehead burst and mixed with sweat. Here are a few reasons:
  1. Jesus took the sins of the world and the results of sin of the world - martyrs won’t go through that
  2. Jesus went to Hell and was tormented for the sins of mankind - martyrs won’t go through that.
  3. All Hell’s powers tried to hold Jesus - martyrs work on the basis of victory already achieved.
(there are more)

So martyrs smile because they know that their suffering is light and momentary. Martyrs will never have suffered all that Jesus suffered and still receive an eternal glory.

For that matter, you don’t have to be a martyr to smile when you pass away. We all can smile knowing that the work of Jesus has opened the door to where every tear will be wiped away and death will be no more.

2 Cor 4: 17
MSG
So we’re not giving up. How could we! Even though on the outside it often looks like things are falling apart on us, on the inside, where God is making new life, not a day goes by without his unfolding grace. These hard times are small potatoes compared to the coming good times, the lavish celebration prepared for us. There’s far more here than meets the eye. The things we see now are here today, gone tomorrow. But the things we can’t see now will last forever.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
The Great I AM - The Eloyhiim Godhead, Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Just like when you type your response… who is creating it? You - Your spirit, your soul, AND your body.

Each part has a different purpose but all work together as one. :) Is that easy to understand?


Please refer back to first answer

Yes… each part has a name.

Incidentally, I call what you refer to as YHWH - as…… “Father” and even “I love you daddy”. It is a relationship - not a formal introduction.


More than an active force, He is the person of The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. Like you have a spirit…. and a soul and a body.


EXACTLY! Man is ONE - but manifested in three - spirit, soul and body. Different purposes, different materiality but still you.
EXACTLY! YHWH - ELOYIM - manifested in three - Father, The Word and Son, and the Holy Spirit! Different purposes but still the great I AM

I think you are finally getting the picture



Not when the glory is the Father giving it back to The Word...


"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."



You might want to revisit your understanding in light of all the scriptures I have given to your...

Remember… And the Word WAS God.

LOL… No… you just didn’t like my biblical answers.

LOL… Again… apparently you didn’t like the answer in Romans… It is Christ that justifies.
Kenny, you are having way too much fun being deceitful.

Beware Beware Beware!!! Beware the tides of wrath!
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The point was the answer was clear, when asked how to earn life eternal.
is that what you got from the comment? is that the wisdom that you identified?
OK, but that is now what the reply was.
Keeping the commandments is how to earn life eternal, the folk that do not accept that need to know humility and why the additional lesson as most do not appreciate that the commandments have been as good then, as now and when written but who actually accepts that?
What commandments ?
The Constitution of the Mosaic Law for ancient Israel ended with Christ - Romans 10:4 ; 7:6
Jesus fulfilled the old law - Matt. 5:17; Ephesians 2:15; Colossians 2:14
Jesus gave us a replacing NEW commandment found at John 13:34-35; 15:12
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
Jesus loved others MORE than the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
So, we are now to love neighbor MORE than self, more than the Golden Rule.
This is why Jesus instructed to do as he did and tell others about God's Kingdom - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Great.
Good questions and big difference between martyrs and Jesus
Why it was more difficult to go through than the martyrs?
Well, physically speaking, martyrs have never had to pray through their difficulty to the point that the capillaries on the forehead burst and mixed with sweat. Here are a few reasons:
  1. Jesus took the sins of the world and the results of sin of the world - martyrs won’t go through that
  2. Jesus went to Hell and was tormented for the sins of mankind - martyrs won’t go through that.
  3. All Hell’s powers tried to hold Jesus - martyrs work on the basis of victory already achieved. (there are more).......................
True, martyrs don't go through what Jesus went through.
Some martyrs simply just faced a firing squad for not giving up their faith.
So, yes on a basis of victory already achieved.
True, dead Jesus went to hell ( Acts 2:27 ) but Jesus was Not tortured in biblical hell.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus knew he would be 'sleeping a sound unconscious sleep' while in biblical hell.( A well deserved rest )
Both Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Great I AM ...................................................................................................................................................................
Remember… And the Word WAS God.
Eloyhim is Not the Tetragrammaton YHWH ( Psalm 83:18 KJV )
I AM is Not a name.
God's spirit (Psalm 104:30) is Not a person. God is Not sending forth a person.
Like our spirit "it" (Ecclesiastes 12:7 B) God's spirit is a neuter "it" -Numbers 11:17,25
KJV English has the Word was God ( Doesn't say the Word is God )
Why is there No letter 'a' before the word God at John 1 because KJV has the letter 'a' at Acts 28:6 B ?
The same Greek grammar rule applies to both verses.
Plus, the Bible teaches No man can see God and live. People saw Jesus and lived - Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1st John 4:12
So, God/god is a title like LORD/Lord (Psalm 110) is a title and Not a proper name as YHWH is.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Kenny, you are having way too much fun being deceitful.

Beware Beware Beware!!! Beware the tides of wrath!
I have founded and built my life on the Rock of my salvation.

Isaiah 12:2 - Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I understand what you mean, you believe what is IN the Bible, but the Bible does not speak and interpret itself.
People read it and assign meanings to the verses.

If the Bible interpreted itself, Christians would all believe the same things and we would not have threads like these where Christians disagree. ;)
Yes, I agree.

That’s why Jesus’ statement at Luke 10:21 is so important!
Only Jesus’ God - who is Jesus’ Father - can reveal the meaning of His Word; reveal it, or hide it.
 
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Ebionite

Well-Known Member
I AM is Not a name.
But it is.

And Moses said unto Elohim, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The Elah of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
And Elohim said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:13-14
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
The Constitution of the Mosaic Law for ancient Israel ended with Christ - Romans 10:4 ; 7:6
Paul had prejudice against Moses:

And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2 Corinthians 3:13
 

Ajax

Active Member
  1. Jesus took the sins of the world and the results of sin of the world - martyrs won’t go through that
  2. Jesus went to Hell and was tormented for the sins of mankind - martyrs won’t go through that.
  3. All Hell’s powers tried to hold Jesus - martyrs work on the basis of victory already achieved.
:laughing: This is a lie. Jesus was never tormented in hell. Do you have any evidence from the bible for this, or is it just what the heretic Word of Faith movement thinks?

Anyway, my point is that a "God" who has made a plan before the foundation of the world to save humanity from their "sins" by dying on the cross (weird... why didn't he just forgive them as he did with the thief) and knows that he will rise in 3 days, can not have tremendous agony, sweat in the thought of it, begging his "counterpart" (God) to avoid it and need psychological support from a specifically sent angel from heaven. This is ridiculous for a man, let alone for a "God" who had planned it!
As I said, martyrs were much more brave giving away their only life (forget about Jesus being tormented).

Regarding Jesus taking the sins of the world, Christianity believes that he took upon himself the condemnation that our disobedience and disloyalty to God had earned. The wages of sin is death, but that death sentence was carried out on him when he died on the cross, and that was it. (Rom. 8:1).
 
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Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
But it is.

And Moses said unto Elohim, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The Elah of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them?
And Elohim said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exodus 3:13-14
I Am’ is not a NAME.

It is the MEANING of the name which is ‘YHWH’.

Every name (Common-noun or Proper-noun) carries a MEANING.

For instance, ‘Peter’ is a proper-noun. It carries the MEANING of ‘A Rock, a Stone, or a Pebble’.
Notice the both are used in a sentence:
  • “And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”
Jesus was not calling Simon-Peter, a stone/a rock. He was saying that Simon-Peter was LIKE A STEADFAST ROCK/STONE in his belief in God and Christ. And because of that the Church of God will be built upon that steadfast belief - so secure that death and hell cannot overcome it.

At no time else does anyone even refer to Peter by the MEANING of the name. Note also that if was Jesus who turned the given birth name of ‘Simon’ to that of ‘Peter’ for that purpose described earlier. We see this many times in scriptures where a persons given birth name is changed to one that DESCRIBES the great task that God (Who instructed Jesus to call him that name - not Jesus himself decided!) wants them to embark on… e.g. Abram - Abraham, Jacob - Israel.

Each proper-noun carries its meaning - we do not go around calling Jesus ‘He who saves’, do we?? The proper-noun of ‘YESHUA’ which is ‘JOSHUA’ and ‘JESUS’ (BY DIFFERENT LANGUAGE!!) means ‘He who saves’.

So also, the Proper-noun, ‘YHWH’ (YAHWEH, JEHOVAH, … by transliteration) MEANSI AM’.

The Bible translator never translated ‘YHWH’ to ‘I AM’ in any place EXCEPT the one place where it is used to DESCRIBE what ‘YHWH’ MEANS.
In all other places, the PROPER-NOUN of ‘YHWH’ is used and then MISTRANSLATED as ‘LORD’ (all caps) so as to cause confusion in those lacking discernment (i.e. Writing or reading it as ‘Lord’ (without the caps) instead thus claiming that Jesus and God are the same ‘LORD / Lord’…)

This is exactly a reason Trinitarianism shows itself as a false belief since not only is it completely ungodly to claim Jesus and God are the same person but it is sheer disingenuousness (a lie!!!) translation KNOWN to those who do the mistranslation.

‘LORD’ is not ‘Lord’… but speaking or writing without proper regard leads to wrongful belief - and they know it - even encourage it in their ideology. This raises the question of WHY would a belief system need to be disingenuous in order to persuade its congregation!!!!

‘LORD’ is ‘YHWH’… nothing to do with ‘Lord’…

And ‘YHWH’ only carries a DESCRIPTION of ‘I AM’ from the Hebrew ‘I am who I am’. God was saying that He is a constant, never changing, complete entity… The description of ‘I Am’ is the greatest name there can ever be by that…

We are to say ‘YHWH’ (or some transliteration of it)..,

God’s NAME is ‘YHWH’ - not ‘I AM’.
But Satan is not sleeping
. And so it is that he causes confusion through his demon angel brothers and human ‘children’ (You are a child of him who you do the works of…!)

The man healed of lifelong blindness was asked by a magistrate of Jews if he was indeed that same man… He replied, ‘I AM’….’

Was he saying that he was Almighty God??
 

Ajax

Active Member
True, martyrs don't go through what Jesus went through.
Some martyrs simply just faced a firing squad for not giving up their faith.
So, yes on a basis of victory already achieved.
True, dead Jesus went to hell ( Acts 2:27 ) but Jesus was Not tortured in biblical hell.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus knew he would be 'sleeping a sound unconscious sleep' while in biblical hell.( A well deserved rest )
Both Jesus and the OT teach 'sleep' in death - John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
You are kidding, right?
Read the bold text that you've written...:laughing:
Martyrs were well tormented before being usually decapitated.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
:laughing: This is a lie. Jesus was never tormented in hell. Do you have any evidence from the bible for this, or is it just what the heretic Word of Faith movement thinks?

Anyway, my point is that a "God" who has made a plan before the foundation of the world to save humanity from their "sins" by dying on the cross (weird... why didn't he just forgive them as he did with the thief) and knows that he will rise in 3 days, can not have tremendous agony, sweat in the thought of it, begging his "counterpart" (God) to avoid it and need psychological support from a specifically sent angel from heaven. This is ridiculous for a man, let alone for a "God" who had planned it!
As I said, martyrs were much more brave giving away their only life (forget about Jesus being tormented).

Regarding Jesus taking the sins of the world, Christianity believes that he took upon himself the condemnation that our disobedience and disloyalty to God had earned. The wages of sin is death, but that death sentence was carried out on him when he died on the cross, and that was it. (Rom. 8:1).
Jesus fulfilled the law by following the lead of his Father, and becoming a human sacrifice. The wage of sin is death. However, killing an innocent man, like Jesus, also caused death, but not due to sin. Jesus did not earn the wage of sin; death, according to the law, even though the law was illegally used against him; misuse of the law. This shows how the law could be perverted. It also created a legal loophole with respect to the law, since according to the law, death was the ultimate punishment for sin, but Jesus was sinless man who paid the ultimate price for sin; paradox.

Technically, Jesus was dead by the law, but he had no sins, and therefore his unique death created a legal double jeopardy, where he could not be tried again for the death penalty, due to sin; paid in advance. The result was eternal life; could never die again. Death due to law was only for the earth, but not in the after life.

Up to that time, one slept after death, regardless of how you got there, in a state of hibernation. Any death penalty due to sin would be served on earth among the humans. This loophole in the law, due to the unique circumstance of Jesus, fulfilled the law; legal double jeopardy paradox, and opened up a path to eternal life instead of eternal sleep. This new eternal life would also apply to the worse of sinners, who had died on earth at the hands of the law. They would awaken and live forever, in torment, in hell; heaven and hell would appear as part for eternal life.

After Jesus dies on the cross, he goes to the underworld, and awakens those who were sinless. Satan and death have no power over him and cannot stop him due to double jeopardy. This loophole would lead to a political conflict in heaven and then to a war, leading to the Red Dragon; Satan, being thrown from heaven; Revelations.

Satan had been condoned in Heaven durian the Old Testament and New Testament. He was in charge of law and humans, since the time Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of knowledge of good and evil; law. God never condoned the tree of law. He washed his hands of it and gave it to Satan and the humans. With law for righteousness fulfilled, by Jesus and that his unique sacrifice, Satan's acceptance in heaven, was terminated. This is why in modern times the Jews may do everything by the old law, but there is no peace; Satan is on the earth is not condoned in Heaven.

God the Father rested on the seventh day. There is no formal place, in the Old or New Testament that tells us how long God's rest lasted. It appears thatGod was resting during and after the fall of Adam and Eve. God did not work on the Divine Sabbath and could therefore not intercede for Adam and Eve. Before he rested he had placed Satan in charge of the humans, as the Lord of the Earth. Satan was also in charge of law, since this was assigned tree; tree of knowledge of good and evil; law. Satan over stepped his authority by allowing Jesus, an innocent man, to pay the wage of sin, while being without sin.

If you look through the Bible there is no epic creation like in the first six days of creation, until Revelations. This suggest God rested for a long time and does not get back to work until Revelations, where he creates a New Heavens and New Earth; epic creation, and then on the second day a Heavenly Jerusalem descends to the new earth. The first earth had been tainted by law, humans, Satan, while God rested.

God creates the second heaven and earth in two days; from his template instead of fresh brooding; Sunday and Monday, and on the third day; Tuesday, Gods is still working, but now his job is to be among his people in a new and improved paradise; heaven on earth with God among them. There the tree of life appears again, with its twelve types of fruit and leaves for healing the nations.

Addendum: If you look at today, the radical Left hates religion, especially Christianity. Yet they have no problem with Satanic religion. They use fake news to lie. Their leaders use law like a weapon; dual justice, and to attack political opponents and even to condemn innocent people. It appears that Satan is not in heaven but on earth; law being used for evil purposes without even being subtle.
 
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Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
:laughing: This is a lie. Jesus was never tormented in hell. Do you have any evidence from the bible for this, or is it just what the heretic Word of Faith movement thinks?

Love the discussion.

OK… so the rest was ok but you don’t believe He went to Hell.

What we also know is:

Psalm 86:13 For Your graciousness toward me is great, And You have saved my soul from the depths of Sheol.
and
Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

At the least, when He took our sins on the cross, his body was marred more than any man (Isaiah 53) as He received the consequences of sin. At the most, as He went to Sheol, the lower parts of the earth, we can believe that possibly there was weeping, gnashing of teeth and torment.


Anyway, my point is that a "God" who has made a plan before the foundation of the world to save humanity from their "sins" by dying on the cross (weird... why didn't he just forgive them as he did with the thief) and knows that he will rise in 3 days, can not have tremendous agony, sweat in the thought of it, begging his "counterpart" (God) to avoid it and need psychological support from a specifically sent angel from heaven. This is ridiculous for a man, let alone for a "God" who had planned it!

Of course, that is easy for you to say since your didn’t suffer with the sins of humanity. Your right to believe that but I wouldn’t subscribe to that since you have no idea what the sins of the world would do to a body.

As I said, martyrs were much more brave giving away their only life (forget about Jesus being tormented).
Again… I hear you, but which martyr prayed to where capillaries burst and mixed with their efforts?

Regarding Jesus taking the sins of the world, Christianity believes that he took upon himself the condemnation that our disobedience and disloyalty to God had earned. The wages of sin is death, but that death sentence was carried out on him when he died on the cross, and that was it. (Rom. 8:1).

No or, at least, it would be a very small group that believes that since Isaiah 53 says differently, along with 1st John 2:2, Col 2:14 along with the type an shadow presented with the two goats to the high priest once a year
 

Ajax

Active Member
@wellwisher
Thank you for your effort in writing this imaginable story..

Any evidence? The New Testament War in Heaven theme of Revelation 12, in which the dragon "who is called the devil and Satan was thrown down to the earth", was derived from the passage about the Babylonian king in Isaiah 14.

Technically, Jesus was dead by the law, but he had no sins, and therefore his unique death created a legal double jeopardy, where he could not be tried again for the death penalty, due to sin; paid in advance
No he wasn't sinless, as he supposedly took on him all the sins of the world....hence his crucifixtion.
 
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Ajax

Active Member
Love the discussion.

OK… so the rest was ok but you don’t believe He went to Hell.

What we also know is:

Psalm 86:13 For Your graciousness toward me is great, And You have saved my soul from the depths of Sheol.
and
Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

At the least, when He took our sins on the cross, his body was marred more than any man (Isaiah 53) as He received the consequences of sin. At the most, as He went to Sheol, the lower parts of the earth, we can believe that possibly there was weeping, gnashing of teeth and torment.
First of all let's clarify a few things if you want to have a proper discussion..

1) The book of Isaiah is identified by a superscription as the words of the 8th-century BCE prophet Isaiah ben Amoz, but there is evidence that much of it was composed during the Babylonian captivity (after 600 BCE) and later. Furthermore it is written by two or three authors. The book can be read as an extended meditation on the destiny of Jerusalem into and after the Exile. The Deutero-Isaian part of the book describes how God will make Jerusalem the centre of his worldwide rule through a royal saviour (a messiah) who will destroy the oppressor (Babylon); this messiah is the Persian king Cyrus the Great, who is merely the agent who brings about Yahweh's kingship. Isaiah speaks out against corrupt leaders and for the disadvantaged, and roots righteousness in God's holiness rather than in Israel's covenant. By the way, Isaiah 7:14 is proven beyond any doubt that has nothing to do with Jesus.
2) Psalms. The book is an anthology of Hebrew religious hymns. It is not a prophetic book. It is divided into five sections, each ending with a doxology, or a hymn of praise. There are several types of psalms, including hymns or songs of praise, communal and individual laments, royal psalms and individual thanksgivings.

So there is no point for you to quote them (as well as the Book of Daniel, whose author(s) were writing ...history).

I will revert with the rest as soon as I can (very busy weekend), but in the meantime please find some evidence that Jesus was tormented in hell. Thanks.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
I have founded and built my life on the Rock of my salvation.

Isaiah 12:2 - Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Kenny, Which God are you referring to?

What is His NAME… What is the NAME of the Son of His love?

Isn’t Yeshua the MAN through whom GOD will judge the world?

What will ‘Jesus-your-God’ be doing while ‘Jesus-the-Man’ is seated on the great white throne judging the world?
  • ‘For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.’ (1 Cor 15:27)
GOD has placed all things (except His throne) in the hands of Jesus Christ. But if Jesus Christ is already ‘God’… how does that work - because Jesus Christ is still subject to God, the king, who is seated on the throne of POWER (not the great white throne which is the throne of judgement).

God (YHWH) …. (On the seat of Power)
|
The Son (Jesus) …. (On the seat of Judgement)
|
Human Kings and Priests (The Elect of God)
\ \
/\/\
The Second Resurrected Ones (To be judged)
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Jesus never ever referred to His Heavenly Father as ‘God the Father’.

God the Father’ is not even linguistically correct as a description. The point is that it should show an adjective:
  • God: The Father
  • God (the Father)’
  • God, the Father
  • God, who is the Father
  • The Father [is] the one who is our God
  • The Father, God, the Almighty one…
Do you say:
  • God: The Holy Spirit
  • God (the Holy Spirit)’
  • God, the Holy Spirit
  • God, who is the Holy Spirit
  • The Holy Spirit [is] the one who is our God
  • The Holy Spirit, God, the Almighty one…
Or:
  • God: Jesus Christ’
  • God (Jesus Christ)’
  • God, Jesus Christ’
  • God, who is Jesus Christ
  • Jesus Christ [is] the one who is our God
  • Jesus Christ, God, the Almighty one…
And where in scriptures do you get the idea that the Spirit of God is a person?
I believe I go by the definition of a person is one who has personality. ie personal characteristics like love.
 
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