• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Estro Felino said:
This is based upon perceptions.

I have personal perceptions too.
For example...watching this video, I realize than women in America tend to be much more "masculine" and "fierce" than men.
I see American men are very sweet... :)

Click to expand...
Yes, and she is wrong. Some of us are pointing out why and the problem with your assertions too. Misandry has not taken over feminism. Women saying they'd choose the bear is not misandry. Responding to those women by telling them they're wrong and that they just hate men is the wrong response. The right response is to listen to them and realize what their reactions tell us about the world - that a whole lot of women have a whole lot of bad experiences with men.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Estro Felino said:
This is based upon perceptions.

I have personal perceptions too.
For example...watching this video, I realize than women in America tend to be much more "masculine" and "fierce" than men.
I see American men are very sweet... :)

Click to expand...
That's great, but it has nothing to do with anything. Again, the response should be to learn from women's response to this question, not tell them they're wrong or that they hate men. If such a large majority of women have so many bad experiences with men, that's a big problem.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
This is also due to the fact that in the USA people are allowed to lie in court and they are allowed to file false accusations.
Click to expand...
That's not true.
However, there are examples of
people getting away with perjury.
Estro Felino said:
Accusing a man of rape is a double-edged sword in Italy because any attorney can destroy the lying woman in court, by providing with the alibi and the scientific evidence (example: the surveillance camera that shows that on that day the defendant was in another city).

And in that case the woman will be sentenced to jail for defamation and forced to pay a big compensation.

The American law encourages so many liars to destroy a man's reputation...
in the era of "all men are rapists".

Precisely. What I have just said.

Ditto.
Click to expand...
It is a problem.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
PureX said:
For obvious reasons, black men are more likely to become frustrated with the course of life as they are experiencing it. And so would be more likely to respond violently in that frustration. It has nothing to do with skin color except that they are living in a culture that treats them badly because of their skin color. Causing the increased frustration and anger.
Click to expand...
There are indeed reasons for the statistical disparity.
But to be clear, they don't excuse wrongful acts.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
SkepticThinker said:
Statistically, women are safer with bears than men. In the last 4 years, seven women were killed by bears and 15 were attacked and survived. Do you want to know the rape/murder statistics for the same time range of men killing/raping women?
We are safer with a bear.
Click to expand...
I'm not offended that these women consider me
highly dangerous. Phobias aren't rational, so it's not
about me.
Nonetheless, I'll take vigorous issue with the specious
reasoning exemplified by the quoted portion of text.
They mis-use statistics (real or invented) to reinforce
their phobia / paranoia. This isn't just bad for their
mental health, & ability to engage in major life activities.
I speculate that it can also lead to discrimination in
housing & employment.....and perhaps false accusations
due to mistaken inferences of speech & acts by males.

It reminds me....
A lesbian acquaintance once told me that she resented
me for how I entered a room with assurance (can't
recall the exact word). I found this surprising & interesting
rather than offensive. But I wonder today how such an
attitude affected her when defending people in court?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
crossfire said:
Stevicus posted an in-depth article about the case here:

Here's the promised link to one of the local newspaper articles:
www.heraldnet.com

Rape victim suing Lynnwood police | HeraldNet.com

LYNNWOOD — The victim of a serial rapist is now suing the Lynnwood police detectives who once accused her of lying about being sexually assaulted.
www.heraldnet.com www.heraldnet.com
Click to expand...
Isolated examples don't paint the larger picture
that's claimed. I certainly don't dispute the ill
treatment by authorities of female victims of
sexual assault. I've made many posts about this.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Estro Felino said:
This is also due to the fact that in the USA people are allowed to lie in court and they are allowed to file false accusations.
Click to expand...
No one is allowed to lie in court, even if some people get away with it.
Estro Felino said:
Accusing a man of rape is a double-edged sword in Italy because any attorney can destroy the lying woman in court, by providing with the alibi and the scientific evidence (example: the surveillance camera that shows that on that day the defendant was in another city).

And in that case the woman will be sentenced to jail for defamation and forced to pay a big compensation.

The American law encourages so many liars to destroy a man's reputation...
in the era of "all men are rapists".
Click to expand...
Everyone agrees that if a woman truly does lie about being assaulted, there should be consequences for her. The problem is that the bar for proving that she lied (as in knowingly made up the accusation) needs to be extremely high.

It's hard enough for women to come forward as it is. They're often (possibly usually) not believed, and they face a very uphill climb just to achieve an arrest, much less a conviction. And then even when convicted, there are plenty of examples of leniency toward the rapist. That's why such a low percentage of rapes/sexual assaults are reported in the first place.

No law encourages liars to destroy a man's reputation. False accusations of rape and sexual assault are exceedingly rare. There is no era of "all men are rapists".
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
SkepticThinker said:
I think that's covered by #3: 8. A bear's motives are easier to understand.
Click to expand...

True, although a man's motives aren't that difficult to figure out either. I think another point is that a man is considered sentient and responsible for his own actions. This would mean that, regardless of what the victim does, the perpetrator is still guilty and morally responsible for their own actions (assuming they've been proven guilty in a court of law).

With bears, the usual reaction is that they were just following their instincts and are not held morally responsible for their actions.

Bears don't get trials, and in many cases, the general procedure is to put down any bears who lose their fear of humans. That's why feeding bears is rightly condemned, since a fed bear is a dead bear. Feeding bears is tantamount to sentencing them to death.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Magic Man said:
That's great, but it has nothing to do with anything. Again, the response should be to learn from women's response to this question, not tell them they're wrong or that they hate men. If such a large majority of women have so many bad experiences with men, that's a big problem.
Click to expand...
Since American men are crucified all the time...
I was trying to defend them...and being their advocate, by saying that American women should try to manage their anger better, and to be sweeter.
:)

Or is it just men that can be crucified?
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Magic Man said:
Everyone agrees that if a woman truly does lie about being assaulted, there should be consequences for her. The problem is that the bar for proving that she lied (as in knowingly made up the accusation) needs to be extremely high.
Click to expand...
Here it's very low.
If you fail to prove your claim...then you will be condemned to pay for compensation.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Estro Felino said:
Since American men are crucified all the time...
I was trying to defend them...and being their advocate, by saying that American women should try to manage their anger better, and to be sweeter.
:)

Or is it just men that can be crucified?
Click to expand...
American men (and men in most other countries) aren't crucified. They have it really good, actually, and don't need your defense.

American women are perfectly sweet and able to manage their anger. That's why it's generally the men you see with anger problems. That's why so many women choose the bear.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Estro Felino said:
Here it's very low.
If you fail to prove your claim...then you will be condemned to pay for compensation.
Click to expand...
If that's true, it's a horrific way to handle the situation. As I said, it's hard enough for women to get their claims taken seriously, much less get an arrest or a conviction. They already don't come forward a large percentage of the time because they'll have to go through even more trauma with not much hope of getting justice. Threatening to punish them if they simply "fail to prove their claim" is one of the worst decisions the law could make.
 
Stevicus

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
Since American men are crucified all the time...
I was trying to defend them...and being their advocate, by saying that American women should try to manage their anger better, and to be sweeter.
:)

Or is it just men that can be crucified?
Click to expand...

As an American man, I can't say I've ever been crucified. As I mentioned earlier, women in real life don't seem to be at all like the women on the internet.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Magic Man said:
If that's true, it's a horrific way to handle the situation. As I said, it's hard enough for women to get their claims taken seriously, much less get an arrest or a conviction. They already don't come forward a large percentage of the time because they'll have to go through even more trauma with not much hope of getting justice. Threatening to punish them if they simply "fail to prove their claim" is one of the worst decisions the law could make.
Click to expand...
If I say that Leonardo Di Caprio raped me, I have to prove it.
:)
Am I believable, if I say so?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Magic Man said:
American men (and men in most other countries) aren't crucified. They have it really good, actually, and don't need your defense.
Click to expand...
Sure, things are really good for most of us. But your argument
doesn't address men subject to the US justice system. They
face incompetence, bigotry, corruption, violence, sexism, & loss
of liberty, even for false charges. (Of course, the same happens
to women when they run into the legal system.)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top