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Foreign Aid bills - this would not have happened under Trump

Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Quintessence said:
Sorry, I'm confused.

What's wrong with foreign aid?

Especially foreign aid that serves humanitarian, ecological, and/or domestic interests? In an era of globalism where isolationism doesn't actually work as a viable foreign policy?
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on sending billions in military aid to Israel considering its actions in Gaza (e.g., killing over 34,000 Palestinians, the vast majority of whom are civilians)?

(I'm keeping the aid to Ukraine a separate topic for the purpose of this post, since I see fundamental differences between its situation and Israel's.)
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Nakosis said:
That's why we can't let Trump win. No war, no profit.

IDK if that is true but the threat is there. Trump has said he would end the war in Ukraine in one day. Can't have that while there is still money to be made.
Click to expand...
Oh, of course he'd end the war in one day -- just hand the Ukrainians in slavery to Putin, all nice and tidy.

Yes, there's always money to be made in war, because humans can find a way to make money out of everything. But there are costs to not fighting rapacious aggressors, but when we try to measure costs in human lives and misery, it never, ever comes close to being as meaningful as the almighty dollar, does it?
 
Godobeyer

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
robocop (actually) said:
The Ukraine, Israel, Taiwan aid and the so-called Tik-tok ban.

We can thank Biden and Johnson for these things.

And Haley got 16% in the Pennsylvania primary where she was not even running.
Click to expand...
If USA works hard for peace same as for wars , it's will gain their own money,and others gain peace and no soul dies.
I do believe Americians citizens not satify for this situation.sponsers of wars.
Americans taxes goes to help others people to fight other people , then all made peace later.The only benefits side is USA weapons companies.
.
 
Godobeyer

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Quintessence said:
Sorry, I'm confused.

What's wrong with foreign aid?

Especially foreign aid that serves humanitarian, ecological, and/or domestic interests? In an era of globalism where isolationism doesn't actually work as a viable foreign policy?
Click to expand...
Language of guns used more than langauge of peace, because actual leaders of West are bad.
there are many factures ,
For Israel about racist in first place and for my opinion is less religion facture .I don't buy anymore the idea of return Jesus/Messiah.
For Ukraine about geopolitical(land) and economic.
For China it's clear economic competition ,and less geopolitical problem

If USA focus on peace,instead of war , the world will definitly better place to live.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Spice said:
Sure he could -- if he sold Ukraine to Russia.
Click to expand...
That's a problem with Trump, ie, avoiding defense
spending by capitulating to the enemy. Trump has
made noises that he'd allow Putin to attacking more
countries in Europe, including NATO members.
That would likely involve USA in a direct war with
Russia....or while Trump is President (if he wins)
would let NATO countries fall to Putin, sparking
a much wider war in Europe.
The Trump scenarios look far riskier than sending
materiel to Ukraine, & stopping Putin there.

BTW, I'm relatively an isolationist. Oddly, to
remain so, it can be useful to support friendly
countries when unfriendlies attack them.
This can reduce the threat to us.

Think Trump is the anti-war candidate compared
to Biden? While Biden is a hawk, don't forget
that Trump planned an airstrike directly on Iran,
which would initiate all out war between them &
USA. Fortunately, he was dissuaded from it by advisers.
www.nytimes.com

Trump Sought Options for Attacking Iran to Stop Its Growing Nuclear Program (Published 2020)

The president was dissuaded from moving ahead with a strike by advisers who warned that it could escalate into a broader conflict in his last weeks in office.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
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Spice

Spice

StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Revoltingest said:
That's a problem with Trump, ie, avoiding defense
spending by capitulating to the enemy. Trump has
made noises that he'd allow Putin to attacking more
countries in Europe, including NATO members.
That would likely involve USA in a direct war with
Russia....or while Trump is President (if he wins)
would let NATO countries fall to Putin, sparking
a much wider war in Europe.
The Trump scenarios look far riskier than sending
materiel to Ukraine, & stopping Putin there.

BTW, I'm relatively an isolationist. Oddly, to
remain so, it can be useful to support friendly
countries when unfriendlies attack them.
This can reduce the threat to us.
Click to expand...
I don't consider myself an isolationist. But I'm not a globalist, either. I'd like to see an advancement towards globalism by first respecting our neighbors' cultures, and boundaries. I imagine this will take several centuries. I am pleased to see the US has backed off of their previous big brother stance in my lifetime. Now I hope to see them do more of a community watch role. Not likely with Trump. He wants power too much.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Spice said:
I don't consider myself an isolationist. But I'm not a globalist, either. I'd like to see an advancement towards globalism by first respecting our neighbors' cultures, and boundaries. I imagine this will take several centuries.
Click to expand...
An optimist, eh.
I harbor hope for the unlikely too.
Spice said:
I am pleased to see the US has backed off of their previous big brother stance in my lifetime. Now I hope to see them do more of a community watch role. Not likely with Trump. He wants power too much.
Click to expand...
Aye, I thought Nixon was an angry man.
Trump makes him look like Mister Rogers.

I should know better, but I'm still bemused
by people supporting someone as dishonest,
violent, ignorant, undisciplined, & treasonous
as Trump.
 
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robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
Explain what? I don't like my money being stolen from me to feed the war machine and murder innocent people who haven't done anything to deserve it. That money should be used to help Americans. It's our money, if you pay taxes.
Click to expand...
Would you rather not defend democracy and let the world descend into that?
 
robocop (actually)

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Godobeyer said:
If USA works hard for peace same as for wars , it's will gain their own money,and others gain peace and no soul dies.
I do believe Americians citizens not satify for this situation.sponsers of wars.
Americans taxes goes to help others people to fight other people , then all made peace later.The only benefits side is USA weapons companies.
.
Click to expand...
We are trying to prevent further war.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
I don't like my money being stolen from me to feed the war machine and murder innocent people who haven't done anything to deserve it.
Click to expand...
I didn't realize that you have money. Be that as it may, for better or for worse much of the money will make its way to the U.S. armaments industry.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Spice said:
I don't consider myself an isolationist. But I'm not a globalist, either. I'd like to see an advancement towards globalism by first respecting our neighbors' cultures, and boundaries. I imagine this will take several centuries. I am pleased to see the US has backed off of their previous big brother stance in my lifetime. Now I hope to see them do more of a community watch role. Not likely with Trump. He wants power too much.
Click to expand...
How odd it is -- I truly suspect that, no matter how small this little world is now (we can talk instantly to anyone, anywhere, and we can be anywhere in hours, not days and weeks), we will never be a planet of "globalists" until some of us are on another planet.

Be fun to speculate on how we'd fight those future wars, when you can't get a bomb to your nemesis in anything less than months and years.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
I didn't realize that you have money. Be that as it may, for better or for worse much of the money will make its way to the U.S. armaments industry.
Click to expand...
<yawn> <ugh> <yawn>
The arms industry.
Not the problem.
It's what voters & politicians choose to do with the military.
Useless but deadly long wars.
Aiding genocide.
 
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