Why ‘us vs them’?

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

Why haven’t we people been more vigilant with regards to our leaders both religious and political, turning us against one another by creating an ‘us vs them’ mentality in our minds when in reality we are all fellow humans? For thousands of years we humans have been pitted against one another often manipulated by leaders demonising other human beings so we will kill them.

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted. Why do many choose to listen to political and religious leaders who want us to kill each other? Is it an ego trip where the follower feels on top of the world upon hearing in a sermon by the priest that he’s the ‘only’ one saved and all others are sinners condemned to hell or a true believer told by his imam that all non believers are ‘infidels’ and their lives inferior? Why do we not question this?

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

You have never fought with family?
Weird that.

Some of the most nasty, vicious, malicious, etc. fights I have ever been in have been with family.

McBell said:

You have never fought with family?
Weird that.

Some of the most nasty, vicious, malicious, etc. fights I have ever been in have been with family.

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Disagreements and even violence within families occurs today very often but It’s not normal for family to kill each other.

loverofhumanity said:

Disagreements and even violence within families occurs today very often but It’s not normal for family to kill each other.

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Wanting to kill someone and actually killing someone are two very distinctive things.

loverofhumanity said:

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted.

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You mean like the way Baha'is are educated to shun so-called covenant breakers right?

loverofhumanity said:

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

Why haven’t we people been more vigilant with regards to our leaders both religious and political, turning us against one another by creating an ‘us vs them’ mentality in our minds when in reality we are all fellow humans? For thousands of years we humans have been pitted against one another often manipulated by leaders demonising other human beings so we will kill them.

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted. Why do many choose to listen to political and religious leaders who want us to kill each other? Is it an ego trip where the follower feels on top of the world upon hearing in a sermon by the priest that he’s the ‘only’ one saved and all others are sinners condemned to hell or a true believer told by his imam that all non believers are ‘infidels’ and their lives inferior? Why do we not question this?

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

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No, I don't believe them. The only people we should ever be against are those who advocate for the destruction of the rights of others, or who actually perpetrate such. Otherwise we are all family.

Good thread.

McBell said:

Wanting to kill someone and actually killing someone are two very distinctive things.

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If we could confine our wishes to harm in thoughts only then this would be a beautiful world.

loverofhumanity said:

If we could confine our wishes to harm in thoughts only then this would be a beautiful world.

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I don't know about that solution. Harm in realty begins with harm in thoughts.

loverofhumanity said:

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

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I didn't take your poll, because your selections came across more as you just venting your frustration than making a serious proposal.

First let's deal with the basic question about "us v. them." This tendency is biologically engrained in us. It's literally in our DNA. It must have evolved because at some time in our past, not trusting strangers was a better survival technique. But you can LITERALLY divide psych 100 students into two completely random groups, have them shmooze for 15 minutes, and then when they fill out the questionnaires they will say their own group is smarter, funnier, friendlier, etc. RANDOM groups.

IOW, if we stopped dividing over skin color, politics, religion, national origin, etc., we would fight each other over which end of the egg to crack.

Fortunately there are exceptions to the rule. There are people who do exist who are actually attracted to those who are different, rather than being afraid.

Now let's consider your two other questions, one at a time. Let's begin with the advantages of government. Sure, it means taxes and being bossed around. But it also means we are safer, and protected from dangerous things like unhealthy things in the foods we buy, or pollutants coming out of factories. It means having the convenience of roads and sewer systems. Here is a short clip of a funny movie called Life of Brian, where they are complaining "What have the Romans ever done for us." enjoy:


Now let's talk about the benefits of religion. Certainly religion can be abused, but its manipulation for war or to con people out of their money is not exactly due to the religion, but is simply due to human corruption. On the flip side, scientific research has found that involvement in religious communities makes us statistically more likely to be healthier, happier, longer lived, and have a buffer against anxiety and depression. Evolutionary biologists are now starting to say that religion helps to form cooperative groups, and of course cooperative groups out compete non-cooperative groups every time. Religion has evolved because, like everything else that evolves, it is ADAPTIVE.

This makes perfect sense. Instead of fighting amongst one another, let's fight the political and religious leaders. Surely that will squash any 'us vs. them' mentality.

McBell said:

You have never fought with family?
Weird that.

Some of the most nasty, vicious, malicious, etc. fights I have ever been in have been with family.

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Which rather underlines Carl Jung's observation that "man is born free, but the family imprisons him."

danieldemol said:

You mean like the way Baha'is are educated to shun so-called covenant breakers right?

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I think many religious groups definitely have an 'us vs them' mentality, even if they claim they don't. Pack mentality tends to do that. Probably the most common example is the ongoing theist vs. atheist we see on this forum, and in real life. Its strength varies though.

loverofhumanity said:

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

Why haven’t we people been more vigilant with regards to our leaders both religious and political, turning us against one another by creating an ‘us vs them’ mentality in our minds when in reality we are all fellow humans? For thousands of years we humans have been pitted against one another often manipulated by leaders demonising other human beings so we will kill them.

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted. Why do many choose to listen to political and religious leaders who want us to kill each other? Is it an ego trip where the follower feels on top of the world upon hearing in a sermon by the priest that he’s the ‘only’ one saved and all others are sinners condemned to hell or a true believer told by his imam that all non believers are ‘infidels’ and their lives inferior? Why do we not question this?

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

Are we all related?

Basic math tells us that all humans share ancestors, but it’s amazing how recently those shared ancestors lived. Thanks to genetic data in the 21st century, scientists are discovering that we really are all descended from one mother. It’s Okay To Be Smart explores our common human ancestry.

ed.ted.com

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Tribalism is an inherent part of religion, IMO. You can't have an in-group without an out-group.

Some religions are exclusive and try to avoid their out-group. Some religions are "inclusive" and try to proselytize to their out-group so they can convert out-group members into in-group members. Both approaches rely on there being an in-group and an out-group. IMO, both approaches are instances of the same problem.

McBell said:

You have never fought with family?
Weird that.

Some of the most nasty, vicious, malicious, etc. fights I have ever been in have been with family.

Click to expand...

Family is the worst.
Friends you can choose.
Family you're given with no choice.
But at least you can choose to excise the worst of family.
(Been there & done that. A couple siblings are dead to me.)

loverofhumanity said:

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

Why haven’t we people been more vigilant with regards to our leaders both religious and political, turning us against one another by creating an ‘us vs them’ mentality in our minds when in reality we are all fellow humans? For thousands of years we humans have been pitted against one another often manipulated by leaders demonising other human beings so we will kill them.

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted. Why do many choose to listen to political and religious leaders who want us to kill each other? Is it an ego trip where the follower feels on top of the world upon hearing in a sermon by the priest that he’s the ‘only’ one saved and all others are sinners condemned to hell or a true believer told by his imam that all non believers are ‘infidels’ and their lives inferior? Why do we not question this?

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

Are we all related?

Basic math tells us that all humans share ancestors, but it’s amazing how recently those shared ancestors lived. Thanks to genetic data in the 21st century, scientists are discovering that we really are all descended from one mother. It’s Okay To Be Smart explores our common human ancestry.

ed.ted.com

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But couldn't this be our purpose, our challenge? It's taking us many millennia, but I think we've progressed, and will continue. IMO, we're on a journey of perfecting cooperation of many for the benefit of One-in-the-all.

loverofhumanity said:

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

Why haven’t we people been more vigilant with regards to our leaders both religious and political, turning us against one another by creating an ‘us vs them’ mentality in our minds when in reality we are all fellow humans? For thousands of years we humans have been pitted against one another often manipulated by leaders demonising other human beings so we will kill them.

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted. Why do many choose to listen to political and religious leaders who want us to kill each other? Is it an ego trip where the follower feels on top of the world upon hearing in a sermon by the priest that he’s the ‘only’ one saved and all others are sinners condemned to hell or a true believer told by his imam that all non believers are ‘infidels’ and their lives inferior? Why do we not question this?

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

Are we all related?

Basic math tells us that all humans share ancestors, but it’s amazing how recently those shared ancestors lived. Thanks to genetic data in the 21st century, scientists are discovering that we really are all descended from one mother. It’s Okay To Be Smart explores our common human ancestry.

ed.ted.com

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Conflict has always been beneficial towards keeping people in power, in power.

What's wrong with us? IDK, perhaps we crave leadership. We want someone telling us what to do and how to behave. Whom to hate.
Hate the alt right, hate the lefties, hate Hamas, hate Israel, hate Russia etc...

SalixIncendium said:

This makes perfect sense. Instead of fighting amongst one another, let's fight the political and religious leaders. Surely that will squash any 'us vs. them' mentality.

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Sadly, Irony has it's own invisibility mask, at its own use with little discretion.

loverofhumanity said:

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

Click to expand...

Much longer than that. It isn't a societal issue, it's a human issue. We're still essentially pack animals, it's just that our pack identities have become much more complicated and multi-faceted. It remains our natural instinct to favour "our own" over "others", but how we draw the dividing lines has become much more complicated, and it is that many people use (or abuse) for their own purposes.

I agree with the principle that it would generally be better if we treated all other people as if we were part of one "human" group, and support efforts to encourage that, but that requires an understanding of those underlying animals instincts and I doubt we'll ever be able to completely override them.

loverofhumanity said:

I understand the need for order and to have governments, religious leaders and an identity. But only for practical purposes not that we should become enemies or strangers .

Why haven’t we people been more vigilant with regards to our leaders both religious and political, turning us against one another by creating an ‘us vs them’ mentality in our minds when in reality we are all fellow humans? For thousands of years we humans have been pitted against one another often manipulated by leaders demonising other human beings so we will kill them.

We have been educated to shun one another because others are ‘them’ not ‘us’ and the world has become divided, disunited and bigoted. Why do many choose to listen to political and religious leaders who want us to kill each other? Is it an ego trip where the follower feels on top of the world upon hearing in a sermon by the priest that he’s the ‘only’ one saved and all others are sinners condemned to hell or a true believer told by his imam that all non believers are ‘infidels’ and their lives inferior? Why do we not question this?

Humanity has listened to this rubbish and nonsense for centuries. Science tells us we are all one family. But our leaders tell us we are ‘us vs them’ Do you really believe them?

Are we all related?

Basic math tells us that all humans share ancestors, but it’s amazing how recently those shared ancestors lived. Thanks to genetic data in the 21st century, scientists are discovering that we really are all descended from one mother. It’s Okay To Be Smart explores our common human ancestry.

ed.ted.com

Click to expand...