David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
But if everyone forgave everyone else for everything, then how could you have a functioning society? Also, see my post #18 in this thread.
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For Chrisitans Only: Matthew 5:38-39
- Thread starter David Davidovich
- Start date
But if everyone forgave everyone else for everything, then how could you have a functioning society? Also, see my post #18 in this thread.
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
See my other replies.
DNB
Christian
It is to be taken literally, as most of you are aware of how many Christians, even during the Apostolic era, died for their faith - let alone suffer a blow to the cheek.
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, are the grounds to not take justice into our own hands. But, even on a remedial level, treating evil with kindness is like putting burning coals on your aggressor's head - it is the shame and regret that will elicit remorse and contrition (Romans 12:19-20).
We are to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves (Matt 10:16) i.e. beyond reproach. And, considering that our time on earth is temporal, and insignificant as far as pride, covetousness and our flesh are concerned - they can kill the body, but not the spirit (Matt. 10:28).
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Jesus often spoke in riddles that require some deciphering, but I don’t think there’s anything enigmatic about these verses, nor this one;
Matthew 5:44
The teaching is clear, the instruction unequivocal
Matthew 5:44
The teaching is clear, the instruction unequivocal
Brian2
Veteran Member
What Jesus said at Matt 5:38-39 is not meant to be laws for a Government, it is how Christians are to treat others in their personal relationships.
I don't see complete pacifism as being taught, nor do I see passivity, allowing yourself to be treated like a door mat.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Jesus demonstrated it in how he dealt with those who sought to stop his teachings. It's about not resisting evil with more evil. Love our enemies and attempt to understand them and bring about peace. But if we perceive that someone is unreachable then walking away or even defending ourselves should someone attempt violence against us is reasonable.
The cross was a major turning of the other cheek on the part of Jesus.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
The OT had a LIMITER. Instead of wiping away a man's family because he took your eye, the MOST the Israelite court could ask for your eye for their loss.
Jesus, however, added if someone insults you--slaps you--let it go. It's not an eye!
By the time Jesus' day rolled around the words from the Mosaic Law was misapplied by those religious leaders.
They turned it into personal vengeance instead of the proper application of the Law: trial by judges -Deut. 19:15-21
The Law meant that the punishment should fit the crime: equal justice.- Leviticus 24:20
Eye-for-eye rule was for balance: Not too harsh, Not too lenient.
Even today I would think the punishment should fit the crime, in other words: punishment to the proper degree.
So, the eye-for-eye balance should have acted as a restraint against going to an extreme - Leviticus 19:18 A.
Not be like the Pharisees who said to hate enemies even though there was No Mosaic Law saying that.
As far as turning the other cheek: Jesus was Not teaching No right to self defence, but No need to pay back, retaliate, in other words, avoid quarreling by Not reacting in kind, for a slap on the face was meant to provoke a fight.
Perhaps today it would Not be a slap on the face but more like stinging insulting words and to Not respond in the same manner.
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
But not practical because most Christians don't follow those words. But only the ones that you notice are really 'nice.' Also, if you looked at my other replies, based upon the Jewish viewpoint of the eye for an eye verse, they really weren't supposed to be referring to vengeance.
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
Well, what made me curious about these verses was based upon my reaction to a video by @Ehav4Ever in post #258 in another thread where it seems like the meaning that Jesus is giving to the eye for an eye verse is different from what the Jewish meaning of it is. Therefore, trying to figure why Jesus conveyed the meaning of that verse as being about vengeance and is giving the readers the wrong impression about that verse.
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
What you said reminded me of a conversation that I had with KenS starting at post #15 in another thread. However, ii doesn't seem as if the entire New Testament is consistent with the viewpoint that you described.
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
For someone who calls himself a Messianic Jewish Christian, I'm just wondering how well you understand Torah law. But see my conversation with @Ehav4Ever in post #258 in another thread.
David Davidovich
Well-Known Member
Good answer. Thank you.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
In practice most humans fall well short of the example set by spiritual teachers, because we are flawed creatures. Many Christians see Jesus’ teachings as something to aspire to, even though we inevitably fall short. How many of us would truly have the courage to die on the cross for love of our fellows, and then in our death throes ask our Father in Heaven to forgive our persecutors? Not many of us could come close to that example, but the fact that Jesus did so, shows Christians the direction we should be moving in if we want to get closer to God; for after all, faith without works is dead.
Thanks for explaining the significance of an eye for an eye in Jewish law, it does change the implications of that verse somewhat. But the overall intent of Matthew 5 remains clear - we are told to love our enemies, as unconditionally as we love our brethren, and as unconditionally as our Father loves us.
Colt
Well-Known Member
There was the religion of Jesus, then after he was gone a religion about Jesus replaced it. I'm not sure which NT things you are talking about?
Brian2
Veteran Member
The Jews could go to the courts to seek justice for the loss of their eye or they could forgive and not seek justice. Seeking full justice under the law can be seen as seeking vengeance for what someone has done to you either on purpose or accidentally.
As others have said, the eye for and eye, tooth for a tooth part of the law was a description of what justice looked like, and it limited what the courts could do and what people could demand that the courts do to the person who has caused them harm. It is a good law and forgiving and not demanding that justice is even better.
But I suppose some people do need to be prosecuted for their actions when those actions are something they will continue to do to other people unless they are brought to justice.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Perhaps Jesus meant that his disciples were to understand that the forgiveness principle would be a natural consequence of their becoming closer to God, and that their present less spiritually evolved state that innately sees an eye for eye type revenge as just would be transcended.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Don't wonder any longer--I know the author personally.
I believe the import of what he was saying is not to seek revenge.