Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Maybe they have difficulty seeing that a personal belief is just that "personal " and don't need a scrutiny from others.
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Believers should not feel intimidated by so called experts on religion
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
lukethethird
unknown member
Believers should not feel intimidated by so called experts on religion
Learning something from an expert is intimidating?
What's the alternative?
Learning something from an expert is intimidating?
What's the alternative?
Nimos
Well-Known Member
I could understand that. But in that case, I think one would have to also claim that they are not true believers, but merely criminals exploiting Islam. I personally don't get the impression that this is the case, but rather that these people are very much religious and feel that they are doing what they believe "true" Islam or God want.
Assuming they are exploiting Islam or the teachings of the Quran, I expect God is not looking at that lightly. So they would obviously then be atheists really, pretending to be Muslims. I doubt that to be the case
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
The "experts" I speak of here is the atheists who believe they know and understand the religious practices better than the folloers and practitioner of those religions and spiritual teachings
lukethethird
unknown member
Most atheists were believers just like you so they know what it means to believe and practice, but that does not make them experts, it just means they are experienced. If you haven't noticed, a lot of atheists do know a lot about religions and their practices, and they usually score high on a religious quiz.
Psychology researchers, those that study beliefs and how humans formulate beliefs are experts in their field and we can learn from their findings.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Some atheists are very nice to discuss with, but a few try to correct believers because the Atheist does not understand that someone can believe in something that "can't be proven" and they attack every bit of the religious teaching that could seem to say "harm the non believers" but they forget to see the very good that religious teaching do to millions of people.
muhammad_isa
Well-Known Member
Well, I suppose one could say that.
However, I think it's easy for both sides of the argument to suggest that "somebody is not a Muslim, Christian etc." if they do not behave as they should behave,
..or that somebody IS a Muslim, Christian etc. if they behave in a certain way, and profess they do it "in the name of G-d".
I personally don't think that these type of definitions are reliable.
People often have political agendas, and one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
War is war. There are moral rules for war, and people from both sides often break them.
One moral rule that is often broken is the involvement of civilians. Desperate people do desperate things.
One doesn't need a religion or scripture to be involved with evil.
One doesn't need a religion or scripture to be a pacifist.
Quite possibly so.
..but that is not equivalent to "Islam is to blame".
If a powerful Christian nation decides to invade another, and considers G-d on their side, does that mean Christianity is to blame?
lukethethird
unknown member
That's the thing, a lot of people, atheists and believers alike, do know what it means to believe in something that can't be proven and sometimes learn the mistake of that belief the hard way. Personally, I prefer to gain knowledge the old fashion way, by learning rather than believing what cannot be proven because that way of thinking is not a way of gaining knowledge. To have doubts, to suspend belief, to say I don't know, is wise.
You must have one massive library. Where do you store it all?
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
For me its more and more opost of you
the spiritual lifestyle become so much more important than the "modern knowledge " faith and belief in God has become prority number one
lukethethird
unknown member
What is a faith and belief in God supposed to prove? Are we claiming to know something about what we can know nothing about? What does that prove or say about us? Are we to be gullible, naïve?For me its more and more opost of you
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
Personally I have faith in that if I can become one with God through the practice of sufism i may enter a form of paradise.
lukethethird
unknown member
There are hallucinatory drugs that will achieve that quicker and more effectively.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
If others want to try that, its up to them, but it is not for me.
I find it funny that the so-called scholars have often never tried living the religions they critique.A religious person who hold a personal belief in any religion or spiritual teaching, has no reason to feel intimidated by a socalled expert on religion....there is not one answer fits all when it comes to spiritual practice.
An expert has an opinion, thats all.
Let them have their opinion, and the best part, just leave them alone
They try to tell you "you don't know your own personal belief"
PureX
Veteran Member
No one here can disprove anyone else's divine revelation. But I don't think that means it should stand as "expertise", either. Humans ARE illogical. Even the ones that think they are the epitome of logic are still quite illogical. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't still try. Or that we should dismiss logical study by our fellow humans because it's not perfect. In the end, though, logic tends to be based on what "works" within the context to which it's being applied. And since that context is almost always subjectively chosen, and subjectively assessed, we (the subjects) end up having to make such determinations for ourselves. There isn't really any way around it.
Nimos
Well-Known Member
So same would go the other way around then I assume? So is some Muslims did something good and despite them claiming that it was in the name of Islam, then that would also not be accurate, if I understand you correct?
Is Islam able to do or result in anything that is either good or bad in your opinion and if so, when does something count as if that is the case or not? If that makes sense?
Believers should not be completely oblivious or discarding the damage any form of applied traditionalism does to society, stifling social progress when it doesn't meet flimsy moralistic arguments (e.g. treatment of women and minorities, 'faith based' medicine, wrapping up religious ideology in national identity etc.)
And atheists should not be oblivious thatbeing a full time online skeptic isn't as great as having a personality they're usually wasting everyone's time because passive aggressive arguing online just entrenches people further. And that they can be so convinced the problem is religion they miss that homophobia, transphobia, sexism and racism is growing within atheist movements, particularly on the US and UK. They just rationalize it with pseudoscience instead of religious doctrine.
And atheists should not be oblivious that
I have a moderate Kindle digital library with many scriptures from most religions. That would include many different translations of books like the Quran because not all translations include all the meanings. The same with the Bible, Gita, Vedas, Upanishads, Mahabharata and many other books such as history, the mind, meditation etc It’s not massive but it’s a start and along with meditation, reflection and action helps me learn a thing or two.
