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Russia blacklists Scientology

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There’s an interesting pattern developing in Russia. They’ve been banning and restricting a number of religious groups.

A few years ago they decided that Jehovah’s Witnesses were extremists and a threat. Why would a group of people that represent less than 1 % of the Russian population, doesn’t get involved with politics and doesn’t use violence be considered a threat to any country, beats me.

They recently added Scientology to the blacklist. Two key entities of the Church of Scientology have been considered “undesirable” and a “threat to the security of the Russian Federation”.
Russia moves to ban 'undesirable' Church of Scientology groups

I’m not a fan of Scientology, but this strikes me as very strange. As unusual, for lack of a better word, as this organization might be, are they really that much of a threat?

Russia currently has roughly 144 million habitants. That’s a very big country with a lot of people. Scientology only has 8 to 15 million members worldwide. I don’t know how many of them live in Russia, but my guess would be not that many. As far as I was able to find out, scientology loves money and doesn’t like it when people leave, but they don’t seem to promote actions against governments, violent demonstrations or other things of that nature.

If Russia wants to defend the wellbeing of its people, shouldn’t they be doing more to fight corruption, inequality and make sure Russian people have their human rights respected? After all, according to the International Amnesty this is a country where "peaceful protesters, human rights defenders and civic and political activists face arrest and prosecution, torture remains endemic, as does near total impunity for perpetrators. The right to a fair trial is routinely violated while legal amendments result in a further reduction in judicial independence."
(https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/russian-federation/ )

Is Scientology really that relevant when there are other groups promoting things far worse than greed and strange beliefs? Talk about having priorities straight...
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, Scientology is crazy stuff.
Not like Russian Orthodox, which is normal stuff.
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
There’s an interesting pattern developing in Russia. They’ve been banning and restricting a number of religious groups.

A few years ago they decided that Jehovah’s Witnesses were extremists and a threat. Why would a group of people that represent less than 1 % of the Russian population, doesn’t get involved with politics and doesn’t use violence be considered a threat to any country, beats me.

They recently added Scientology to the blacklist
I see similar patterns (banning certain small groups) happen in the USA, France, Netherlands and where not. I even understand why, and I think the list will grow bigger and bigger the next 10 years. I don't agree with it, but I can't stop it.
 
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Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
If Russia wants to defend the wellbeing of its people, shouldn’t they be doing more to fight corruption, inequality and make sure Russian people have their human rights respected? After all, according to the International Amnesty this is a country where "peaceful protesters, human rights defenders and civic and political activists face arrest and prosecution, torture remains endemic, as does near total impunity for perpetrators. The right to a fair trial is routinely violated while legal amendments result in a further reduction in judicial independence."
(https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/russian-federation/ )

Is Scientology really that relevant when there are other groups promoting things far worse than greed and strange beliefs? Talk about having priorities straight...
Might be intended to deflect from the things you pointed out. That, or maybe we're looking at Russia heading back to its anti-religion stance from during the Cold War. They're just easing in slowly right now.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Might be intended to deflect from the things you pointed out. That, or maybe we're looking at Russia heading back to its anti-religion stance from during the Cold War. They're just easing in slowly right now.
I'm not sure; as far as I'm aware, the Orthodox Church is what's backing and driving their recent conservative reforms, such as their LGBT stance etc. I think it would be to shoot themselves in the foot to try wiping it out in that sense.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
I'm not sure; as far as I'm aware, the Orthodox Church is what's backing and driving their recent conservative reforms, such as their LGBT stance etc. I think it would be to shoot themselves in the foot to try wiping it out in that sense.

Yes, I think you are correct. The RO church is very influential there, increasingly so.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not sure; as far as I'm aware, the Orthodox Church is what's backing and driving their recent conservative reforms, such as their LGBT stance etc. I think it would be to shoot themselves in the foot to try wiping it out in that sense.

"Reforms" seems to me a strange way to refer to increasing crackdowns and suppression. The hypocrisy of such suppression is underlined by the fact that Orthodox Christianity itself faces similar suppression in multiple countries under the banner of Islamic conservatism.

Different political ideologies, same tyranny and moral bankruptcy.
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
@Vee
I’m not a fan of Scientology, but this strikes me as very strange. As unusual, for lack of a better word, as this organization might be, are they really that much of a threat?

Is Scientology really that relevant when there are other groups promoting things far worse than greed and strange beliefs? Talk about having priorities straight...

This is not only in Russia. Scientology is the arch-enemy for the German state, in the same category as (Neo-)Nazism, Islamism, and left-wing radicalism. There's plenty to read about the reasons why people claim Scientology is dangerous, so I won't repeat it here. IMHO, the biggest argument is that scientology has its own secret service, the Office of Special Affairs (OSA), whose purpose is undermining large businesses as well as governments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Affairs

I know other Western groups such as the Hare Krishnas, for example, have been banned or are under a threat to be banned, but I think it is specious to argue "my religion is a cozy little harmless group and so Scientology must be as well". Each group should be considered individually instead
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
"Reforms" seems to me a strange way to refer to increasing crackdowns and suppression. The hypocrisy of such suppression is underlined by the fact that Orthodox Christianity itself faces similar suppression in multiple countries under the banner of Islamic conservatism.

Different political ideologies, same tyranny and moral bankruptcy.
I just used the word in its most basic sense. A reform doesn't in itself have to be good or bad, it's just a changing set of policies.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
There’s an interesting pattern developing in Russia. They’ve been banning and restricting a number of religious groups.
This is from out in left-field: Could it be for the purpose of impressing the Chinese politicians?
 
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Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
That bizarre get up is funny in how strange it is.
Scientology is far from the only religion with strange
beliefs, customs, mythology, & corrupting influence.
Putin favors some, & bans others.

Bizarre only in that it is not modern. There is a rich history behind the 'get up'; the Kievan Rus were converted by the Byzantines ~1200 years ago and strongly influenced by them in so many ways (which have evolved uniquely over the centuries of course).
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Why would that be useful?
Why would the PRC care?
Might be useful if schmoozing makes a difference. If two people or two countries are strangers its useful to find commonalities, common solutions to common problems etc. "You are having trouble with those Uyghers? We understand. We're having similar problems with our ___ in our country. Its sad, but what can you do. Actually it was your example which encouraged us to take action my friend."
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Bizarre only in that it is not modern. There is a rich history behind the 'get up'; the Kievan Rus were converted by the Byzantines ~1200 years ago and strongly influenced by them in so many ways (which have evolved uniquely over the centuries of course).
Does a long history of one religion make it more
legitimate than the short history of a new one?
"Rich" is a choice word....that "get up" is
bizarrely opulent. Putin & his ilk are merely
accustomed to one, but not the other.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Might be useful if schmoozing makes a difference. If two people or two countries are strangers its useful to find commonalities, common solutions to common problems etc. "You are having trouble with those Uyghers? We understand. We're having similar problems with our ___ in our country. Its sad, but what can you do. Actually it was your example which encouraged us to take action my friend."
That doesn't seem to be motivation.
Religious conservatism in Russia looks
like the better explanation.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
That doesn't seem to be motivation.
Religious conservatism in Russia looks
like the better explanation.
Could be, but religious conservatism could be politically motivated. Did you notice how Russia's church was wielded against Ukraine's? I did. We even had visitors from the various churches here. The fight between the two countries included the church leadership. Remember when V. Putin moved to become publicly political? One of the first things he did was to show obeisance to the Russian Orthodox church. I remember, but which direction does that obeisance really go? Who really is in charge of the church?

You could very well be right. It could simply be that religious conservatism has influenced Russian politicians. It could also just be that they view Scientology as as detrimental to the public. They don't have the same kinds of separation between church and state that we do. Church is state and state is church perhaps.
 
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