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Explain The Holy Trinity!

Hold

Hold

Abducted Member
Premium Member
It was taught , not explained, as a mystery in parochial school. I don't know who originated this theory nor do I expect to find out. The most important lesson simply was Love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. ( of course we added,'but don't get caught") :cool:
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
My question is why are there so many "mysteries" in the Catholic church. They believe Jesus gave the keys to heaven to Peter and made Peter the foundation of the church. You would think Peter and his successors would have all the answers. But no. When something is difficult to explain they just say it is a mystery. I want a religion that has answers not mysteries.
 
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Firelight

Inactive member
Eddi said:
I'm not sure whether or not I truly understand the doctrine of The Holy Trinity

So I thought I'd make a thread in which people might explain it

So... if you think you can then please share your explanation :)
Click to expand...


Doctrine of The Holy Trinity for which church/religion? It differs amongst Christian churches and individuals.
 
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Firelight

Inactive member
lostwanderingsoul said:
My question is why are there so many "mysteries" in the Catholic church. They believe Jesus gave the keys to heaven to Peter and made Peter the foundation of the church. You would think Peter and his successors would have all the answers. But no. When something is difficult to explain they just say it is a mystery. I want a religion that has answers not mysteries.
Click to expand...


Have you done any research or study into any other religions? The Catholic church isn’t the only one in existence.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
TransmutingSoul said:
It helps to add to the thoughts that the mirrors are timeless and that the Sun that rises each day, is the same sun that rose yesterday. The first Sun, the Last Sun and a Mirror for every day of God.

Each Day of God, that the mirror shines the attributes to humanity is the dispensation of a Messenger.

The same Christ for all humanity for all eternity.

Regards Tony
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TOny. Your explanation of the trinity is absolutely opposite to the concept of trinity. You are explaining something else.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
TOny. Your explanation of the trinity is absolutely opposite to the concept of trinity. You are explaining something else.
Click to expand...

Again that is your frame of reference, it is not mine.

The OP asked to explain the Trinity, it is now explained.

Regards Tony
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
TransmutingSoul said:
Again that is your frame of reference, it is not mine.

The OP asked to explain the Trinity, it is now explained.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...

Thats not the trinity you were explaining Tony. If that is the idea you have of the trinity, it is wrong.

But I dont think your intention is not to discuss or understand but something else seeing that post so Im sorry to have even engaged.

Have a great day.
 
TransmutingSoul

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
firedragon said:
Thats not the trinity you were explaining Tony. If that is the idea you have of the trinity, it is wrong.
Click to expand...

Actually it is a God given explanation IMHO.

If you engage you could show how the explanation is not according to scriptures.

Regards Tony
 
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Firelight

Inactive member
firedragon said:
Interesting. Can you give several examples of different definitions of the Trinity?
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Definitions I’ve heard or read:

1- God, the Father is the spirit; Jesus is the flesh; Holy Spirit is spirit.

2- God the Father and Jesus are the same and the Holy Spirit is in them.

3- God is one being, but three persons.

4- God, the Father is judge; Jesus is creator; Holy Spirit is helper.

5- God is Father; God is Jesus; God is Holy Spirit; the Father is not Jesus; the Father is not the Holy Spirit; Jesus is not the father; Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is not the father; the holy Spirit is not Jesus.

6- The Trinity is a mystery and beyond human comprehension.

7- The Father is none; The Son is begotten; the Holy Spirit is proceeding.

8- The Trinity is God split up.

9- God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal.

10- God the father; Jesus, is the Archangel Michael in human form; Holy Spirit is energy.


Not all Christians are Trinitarians. Some Christians believe that there is “only Jesus, Jesus is Lord, and Jesus is enough.” They do not acknowledge the Father or the Holy Spirit.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Firelight said:
Definitions I’ve heard or read:

1- God, the Father is the spirit; Jesus is the flesh; Holy Spirit is spirit.

2- God the Father and Jesus are the same and the Holy Spirit is in them.

3- God is one being, but three persons.

4- God, the Father is judge; Jesus is creator; Holy Spirit is helper.

5- God is Father; God is Jesus; God is Holy Spirit; the Father is not Jesus; the Father is not the Holy Spirit; Jesus is not the father; Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is not the father; the holy Spirit is not Jesus.

6- The Trinity is a mystery and beyond human comprehension.

7- The Father is none; The Son is begotten; the Holy Spirit is proceeding.

8- The Trinity is God split up.

9- God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal.

10- God the father; Jesus, is the Archangel Michael in human form; Holy Spirit is energy.


Not all Christians are Trinitarians. Some Christians believe that there is “only Jesus, Jesus is Lord, and Jesus is enough.” They do not acknowledge the Father or the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...


I know all Christians are not trinitarians. This is specific to "the trinity".

So which specific churches are of these varying views? You have given 10 points. Which 10 churches spell out these particular formulas as "the trinity" in their church doctrine?

Thanks.
 
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Firelight

Inactive member
firedragon said:
I know all Christians are not trinitarians. This is specific to "the trinity".

So which specific churches are of these varying views? You have given 10 points. Which 10 churches spell out these particular formulas as "the trinity" in their church doctrine?

Thanks.
Click to expand...


I forgot to add that these definitions were said by individual Christians and not by specific churches. They identified themselves as Christians, but not all identified which church they belonged to. Those that identified their specific church were Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist. Baptist told me #1, Catholics said #2 #3 #6 #9, and an Orthodox #8.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Firelight said:
I forgot to add that these definitions were said by individual Christians and not by specific churches. They identified themselves as Christians, but not all identified which church they belonged to. Those that identified their specific church were Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist. Baptist told me #1, Catholics said #2 #3 #6 #9, and an Orthodox #8.
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You have been mislead Firelight.

Anyway, I was just asking because you said "churches" specifically. Nevertheless, there is no necessity to go into specific points you cited, many of them are already built into the athanasian creed anyway. Some of them like God is split are considered heresies, and I can tell you that no Orthodox Church spells that out. If someone told you, that is false. Thats considered a heresy by the orthodox trinity.

Thanks Firelight for clarifying. Really appreciate it.
 
Colt

Colt

Well-Known Member
Eddi said:
I'm not sure whether or not I truly understand the doctrine of The Holy Trinity

So I thought I'd make a thread in which people might explain it

So... if you think you can then please share your explanation :)
Click to expand...
Jesus wasn't 2nd person of a Trinity, he never claimed that he was, that was "assumed", it was speculation and conjecture long after the fact.

In terms of the Father, Son and Spirit that Jesus referred to before leaving this quote from the UB best explains it to me. Its what makes sense to me:


"THE Paradise Trinity of eternal Deities facilitates the Father’s escape from personality absolutism. The Trinity perfectly associates the limitless expression of God’s infinite personal will with the absoluteness of Deity. The Eternal Son and the various Sons of divine origin, together with the Conjoint Actor and his universe children, effectively provide for the Father’s liberation from the limitations otherwise inherent in primacy, perfection, changelessness, eternity, universality, absoluteness, and infinity.

The Paradise Trinity effectively provides for the full expression and perfect revelation of the eternal nature of Deity. The Stationary Sons of the Trinity likewise afford a full and perfect revelation of divine justice. The Trinity is Deity unity, and this unity rests eternally upon the absolute foundations of the divine oneness of the three original and co-ordinate and coexistent personalities, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit......


...... "It would seem that the Father, back in eternity, inaugurated a policy of profound self-distribution. There is inherent in the selfless, loving, and lovable nature of the Universal Father something which causes him to reserve to himself the exercise of only those powers and that authority which he apparently finds it impossible to delegate or to bestow."

In my theology Jesus was a creation of the Trinity, delegated creative powers and authority. Our Creator Son lived among us anonymously 2000 years ago up until his public ministry when even then he was cryptic and vague.
 
Vee

Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Eddi said:
I'm not sure whether or not I truly understand the doctrine of The Holy Trinity

So I thought I'd make a thread in which people might explain it

So... if you think you can then please share your explanation :)
Click to expand...

Some religions believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same entity.
I think the concept of Trinity was one of several pagan ideas adopted by Christianism. Trinity has been around for many years and is common to a number of religions. The Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics points out that “In Indian religion, we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahmā, Siva, and Viṣṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus . . .
In the entire Bible there are only three verses (1 John 5:7; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14) that speak of the Father, Son and holy spirit in some sort of connection, but not one of these says anything specific about the trinity.
1 John 5:7 says "for there are three witness bearers", Matt 28:18 says "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit" (please notice it doesn't say to baptize them in the name of the trinity), and 2 Cor. 13:14 says "The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of you."
These are the verses usually "blamed" for the idea of trinity in the bible, but there is no actual mention of it, on the contrary. There are verses where God identifies Jesus as His son, and verses where Jesus identifies God as His father. A father and a son cannot be the same person.
In John 20:17 Jesus says "Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God". John 23:31 reinforces that Jesus is God's son and not God himself "But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name".
 
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