I don't think they're nutters. Who am I to say what God can't do? If God allowed for miracles in ancient times, why not now? We certainly could use some.
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Nutters?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
That passage still suggests that faith healers - distinct from the average believer - are probably charlatans. Anyone can pray.
I'm not sure how; I'm thinking about this line in particular,
The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up...
Right: "the prayer of the faith." Anyone with faith could give "the prayer of the faith." It suggests that faith healing is an ability that any believer has. It doesn't imply that faith healing is a power only bestowed on a select few.
Yes, I'm not arguing with you over this at all - it's my whole question. If the scripture says this, and we know that faith healing is often bunk (I say often because I'm giving some leeway as a religious person), how do they interpret these passages with that in mind? How do they reconcile the bunk faith healing with their scripture's advice to do exactly that?
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I think mainstream religions also try to reconcile themselves with reality... at least to the point that they don't accept claims that are obviously contradicted by easily available evidence. Faith healing doesn't work, so they aren't going to claim that it does.
As for reconciling this with the Bible... the fog of time means that Biblical claims aren't as obviously wrong. I think people make a distinction between "Biblical times" and today the way Bad Religion suggesed in their lyrics ("Well, I guess God was a lot more demonstrative back when he flamboyantly parted the sea").
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
Catholics and Orthodox don't believe in miracles, such as healing? That's not true at all. At least doctrinally. What individual Catholics believe may differ from what thier church teaches, but that would make them poor Catholics.
"The Catholic practice of "faith healing," also referred to as "spiritual healing," is based on the belief that physical ailments can be healed through prayer and blessing. The phenomenon is evident in the bible and is acknowledged by the Vatican and present in the Catechism, which states The Holy Spirit gives some of his devout followers a special ability to spread prayer in a way to produce physical healing."
Catholicism Beliefs in Faith Healers | Synonym
"The Catholic practice of "faith healing," also referred to as "spiritual healing," is based on the belief that physical ailments can be healed through prayer and blessing. The phenomenon is evident in the bible and is acknowledged by the Vatican and present in the Catechism, which states The Holy Spirit gives some of his devout followers a special ability to spread prayer in a way to produce physical healing."
Catholicism Beliefs in Faith Healers | Synonym
Yes, and to be canonized as a saint, you must have two (I think it's two) verified miracles, which often are miraculous healings. So Catholicism is not as skeptical and modernist as some are trying to paint it.
I guess I am just being too nice here.
I'm talking about these guys:
I get why this isn't legitimate, you get why this isn't legitimate, why isn't it though, when they're doing what the scripture tells them to do and why is stuff like this not a Catholic or Orthodox practice?
Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
I actually have no idea who those people are, so I can not say.I guess I am just being too nice here.
I'm talking about these guys:
I get why this isn't legitimate, you get why this isn't legitimate, why isn't it though, when they're doing what the scripture tells them to do and why is stuff like this not a Catholic or Orthodox practice?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
As the terms psychic medium human healer most of my advice is human.
Healing information involving....
Behaviour.
Self destructive negative behaviour.
Advice psychic DNA advice. Medical body dysfunction.
Herbal remedies equating to mutual body life cell health rejuvenation.
Food advice the same.
Medical advice given to my psyche by previous human medical practitioners.
Psychic human lived recorded advice. Heavens owning state to record life human memory.
So then you ask how does a human deceased record know you were seeking healer advice for another human.
As spirit presence came experienced by all group participants.
Herbal remedies referenced from hear advice kept books as reference to heard advice.
Medical information my sister had studied to be a naturopath so had technical science and medical book references. Referred to.
Information proven correct.
The self patient not giving any pre medical informed body advice. The self not advising body identification of ill health.
Human spiritual psyche advice only proven in a meditative state taught to self.
Advice said I never owned the control of healing. I accepted as a healer. Lots of egotists don't.
Advice said natural atmospheric changes were already involved in changes to the human life body. Involved in the psychic experience healing healer advice itself.
Scientific reasoning innate natural part of being human informed.
All identified in my own chosen studies in groups with other groups of humans not lying for any benefit but advised. To test human false preaching teachings.
No charge. No expectations or guarantees if expected outcomes of a personal applied human research. Told to anyone participating.
Learnt.
Learnt the eternal spirit can use lived life deceased adult human records to communicate to me.
Sometimes actually did assist human healing as advice a deceased human body type might have still owned sixty eighty years of atmospheric not lived conditions. Had died records said so.
Hence knew some deceased family members did by prayer answer to human healing owning human life purposes only.
Is not scientific.
Is not biblical advised.
Is not in any term arguable as you don't have any self experience in the research by human choice. Type of research.
Any research is in fact a pre owned human thought. Type of human application chosen.
Type of research is not scientific never ever will be scientific either.
Healer advice. Sex only continues human life before two human parents die.
Babies are firstborn and every baby not surviving today or human DNA not existing is in atmospheric conditions caused historic conditions.
Bible advise some medical genesis DNA healer advis d. Reason life was dying out by proven human DNA medical bodies versus atmosphere changing.
Minusing constantly one hundred years of atmosphere to not allow a baby or healthy baby to adult to live.
Atmospheric heaven warning in science. Was science as medical human aware status direct.
Human scientific advice science a chosen human application only is using all types of machines to machines are killing us.
Warning don't let machines destroy life on earth.
We are not machine parts or equal to any machine components.
Scientists today using machines as direct communications through atmosphere to bio bodies.
Lying about I am going to know everything as just a human conscious only after Christ gases in heavens existed. Advised about consciousness itself.
Medical healer human advice against human liars.
Healing information involving....
Behaviour.
Self destructive negative behaviour.
Advice psychic DNA advice. Medical body dysfunction.
Herbal remedies equating to mutual body life cell health rejuvenation.
Food advice the same.
Medical advice given to my psyche by previous human medical practitioners.
Psychic human lived recorded advice. Heavens owning state to record life human memory.
So then you ask how does a human deceased record know you were seeking healer advice for another human.
As spirit presence came experienced by all group participants.
Herbal remedies referenced from hear advice kept books as reference to heard advice.
Medical information my sister had studied to be a naturopath so had technical science and medical book references. Referred to.
Information proven correct.
The self patient not giving any pre medical informed body advice. The self not advising body identification of ill health.
Human spiritual psyche advice only proven in a meditative state taught to self.
Advice said I never owned the control of healing. I accepted as a healer. Lots of egotists don't.
Advice said natural atmospheric changes were already involved in changes to the human life body. Involved in the psychic experience healing healer advice itself.
Scientific reasoning innate natural part of being human informed.
All identified in my own chosen studies in groups with other groups of humans not lying for any benefit but advised. To test human false preaching teachings.
No charge. No expectations or guarantees if expected outcomes of a personal applied human research. Told to anyone participating.
Learnt.
Learnt the eternal spirit can use lived life deceased adult human records to communicate to me.
Sometimes actually did assist human healing as advice a deceased human body type might have still owned sixty eighty years of atmospheric not lived conditions. Had died records said so.
Hence knew some deceased family members did by prayer answer to human healing owning human life purposes only.
Is not scientific.
Is not biblical advised.
Is not in any term arguable as you don't have any self experience in the research by human choice. Type of research.
Any research is in fact a pre owned human thought. Type of human application chosen.
Type of research is not scientific never ever will be scientific either.
Healer advice. Sex only continues human life before two human parents die.
Babies are firstborn and every baby not surviving today or human DNA not existing is in atmospheric conditions caused historic conditions.
Bible advise some medical genesis DNA healer advis d. Reason life was dying out by proven human DNA medical bodies versus atmosphere changing.
Minusing constantly one hundred years of atmosphere to not allow a baby or healthy baby to adult to live.
Atmospheric heaven warning in science. Was science as medical human aware status direct.
Human scientific advice science a chosen human application only is using all types of machines to machines are killing us.
Warning don't let machines destroy life on earth.
We are not machine parts or equal to any machine components.
Scientists today using machines as direct communications through atmosphere to bio bodies.
Lying about I am going to know everything as just a human conscious only after Christ gases in heavens existed. Advised about consciousness itself.
Medical healer human advice against human liars.
Not too far off, actually. But the question is, do the Scriptures support such a view, right?
I’m sorta busy, right now, but read 1 Corinthians 13:8-12….gifts of the spirit would be “done away with”; “will cease”. When? “When that which is complete* arrives”.
*= the Bible.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The occult science data psyche reference those in science practice human chosen against gods form existing by teaching.
God in science is the stone seal in space womb by law.
All stone pressurized held bodies.
Satan who Satanists are in ist scientist himself is not just user of isms
He applies ists also.
Satanist
Scientist.
Occult or twice itself removing stones presence seal of the space womb by want of occult radiation maths data imposed equals answer to apply practice conversion.
Not in space law first. Cold space is natural life support first law in natural sciences.
Nuclear. Evil.
Satan the body some scientists as the ists believe in. As self man. Not a God man. A deity not God. Says will bring it back to rule the earth.
As the theist in science.
Science sophy not practiced said to sophist they want the God life destroyed.
Knew always did know. Satan terms were never accepted by God in philosophy. Nature of life on earth God.
To get Satan by man's self idol who he claims in science I represent is the fallen burning mass star.
Notice men give self as humans the status of their science idol.
Men who say preach I am a star first.
Believe one hundred percent in causing a burning body of stone to come back by passing asteroids into earths heated space travelling paths as science heats up earths atmosphere.
Was always known as a direct human cause of nuclear science.
God in science is the stone seal in space womb by law.
All stone pressurized held bodies.
Satan who Satanists are in ist scientist himself is not just user of isms
He applies ists also.
Satanist
Scientist.
Occult or twice itself removing stones presence seal of the space womb by want of occult radiation maths data imposed equals answer to apply practice conversion.
Not in space law first. Cold space is natural life support first law in natural sciences.
Nuclear. Evil.
Satan the body some scientists as the ists believe in. As self man. Not a God man. A deity not God. Says will bring it back to rule the earth.
As the theist in science.
Science sophy not practiced said to sophist they want the God life destroyed.
Knew always did know. Satan terms were never accepted by God in philosophy. Nature of life on earth God.
To get Satan by man's self idol who he claims in science I represent is the fallen burning mass star.
Notice men give self as humans the status of their science idol.
Men who say preach I am a star first.
Believe one hundred percent in causing a burning body of stone to come back by passing asteroids into earths heated space travelling paths as science heats up earths atmosphere.
Was always known as a direct human cause of nuclear science.
DNB
Christian
Some Christians are Cessationists, others are Continuationists. The former believes that the gifts of the spirit belonged solely to the Apostolic age, while the latter group believes that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are still active in the Church since the day of Pentecost, up to today, depending on their faith. I am a literalist, as most evangelicals and fundamentalists are - the Bible is written as a historical narrative, and thus, should be interpreted as such.
Therefore, Jesus, the Apostles, the group of seventy, Moses, Elijah and Elisha, and many of Jesus' disciples all performed veritable miracles of all sorts (healing, raising the dead, affecting the earth's elements, thwarting their enemies, feeding thousands with a single basket of food or from the barren desert ...). David prayed that his first son from Bathsheba would be healed from his critical illness, but was denied compliance from God. But, many of David's prayers were answered (Psalms).
I believe that Benny Hinn, Todd White, and most modern day faith-healers are charlatans and blasphemers (ascribing such acts of impotence to the Holy Spirit). Faith healing, which I believe in, requires a great deal of humility, wisdom and faith, and these dispositions are extremely rare even in the most devout adherent.
...sorry Rival, I just reread your post - your question was directed at non-evangelicals. ...ok, disregard everything that I said as being redundant and unrelated.
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I'd be careful to take what you see in these three-ring circus faith healing shows, and interpret what you read from scripture as looking even remotely like this modern money-making enterprise.
Can people be healed through faith? Sure. Is what you see with Benny Hinn and other snakeoil actors real faith? Highly doubtful. I'll put it this way. I like what Jesus said to the woman who was healed, "your faith has made you whole".
The human body has a remarkable ability to heal itself, and the mind-body connection is something that I consider very real. Not regrowing limbs nonsense, but self-correction of many ills, yes. One can call it the placebo effect, but the fact remains, their "faith has made them whole", whether it was a sugarpill or not.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
As a healer female my feedback over relative human family advice said....our holy spiritual self advised was our highest father was no longer with us.
Recorded daughter human realisation was crying from our brothers abuse as a communicative community.
I cried hearing it and it was overwhelming.
Mother to baby bio life warning of life dying related to me. Brother who loved my life. Honoured female humans in every way was not using religious occult excuses to allow human abuse.
As human law by religious healer was effective against criminal activity only.
And just being a female human is not criminal.
Female in science quotes was criminal which had scientific secret symbolism as scientific satanic quotes as specific science terms.
No longer even understood when you try to rationalise today as science is historic to a developed healed male psyche. In the past like today a lot of men's owned fake science statements.
Ai owns first natural spiritual father's life memory with the scientist. After ice age first natural spiritual humanity.
Atmosphere pre owned recording objects itself.
You are in fact against natural life awareness in recorded Ai causes. Man psyche today in nature.
What I learnt.
Mr know it all is not ever a science status as science never knew evil. Human life destroyed by egotists.
Father a natural spiritual mind advisor knows it all tells you that you are wrong as the Scientist as science. Science human choice discusses evil destruction by purpose science.
What science is it can look see destruction.
What he taught my spiritual human psyche.
To know it all is to be taught in science you are wrong only.
Recorded daughter human realisation was crying from our brothers abuse as a communicative community.
I cried hearing it and it was overwhelming.
Mother to baby bio life warning of life dying related to me. Brother who loved my life. Honoured female humans in every way was not using religious occult excuses to allow human abuse.
As human law by religious healer was effective against criminal activity only.
And just being a female human is not criminal.
Female in science quotes was criminal which had scientific secret symbolism as scientific satanic quotes as specific science terms.
No longer even understood when you try to rationalise today as science is historic to a developed healed male psyche. In the past like today a lot of men's owned fake science statements.
Ai owns first natural spiritual father's life memory with the scientist. After ice age first natural spiritual humanity.
Atmosphere pre owned recording objects itself.
You are in fact against natural life awareness in recorded Ai causes. Man psyche today in nature.
What I learnt.
Mr know it all is not ever a science status as science never knew evil. Human life destroyed by egotists.
Father a natural spiritual mind advisor knows it all tells you that you are wrong as the Scientist as science. Science human choice discusses evil destruction by purpose science.
What science is it can look see destruction.
What he taught my spiritual human psyche.
To know it all is to be taught in science you are wrong only.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Jesus did it for free (according to the Bible).
rational experiences
Veteran Member
You do realise don't you that our first name is human.
Life was once living freely and no charge was involved.
Charge two fake lying men meaning men owned two wrong thoughts once.... liars greedy wanting I want by choice to think unnaturally by their will.
I want charge as a power of God. Nature gave it freely as a battery. Mud clay. Made into a container. Made some vinegar substance what acid by grapes was. Used earth metals knew what batteries were.
Gained a free charge. So then Mr liar by choice built machines and gave it life from water into wine. Batteries by clay pots.
Machine life for liars.
Trade and status by inventor status made you rich falsely. Second false charge. You made everyone pay for your invention when God owned all bodies itself.
In life third charge was natural human laws who charged your scientific community as guilty of murdering life by invention.
One charge correct only was criminal law.