Let's define Religion.

I've been told that Religion cannot be defined, or at the very least, any attempt will be so inadequate as to make the definition useless. I think for most people, there are certain sets of beliefs that seem to easily fit into a category with the label Religion. I anticipate most of the difficulty will lie on those that fall on the boundary of a general definition, but alas, I might be completely wrong.

I would love to put this to the test. My idea is that I will provide an initial definition of Religion and have RF members delineate all the ways in which it is inadequate or misses the mark (which I am sure it will). Hopefully there will be suggestions on how to improve the definition along with discussion about the pro's and con's of possible changes. I would also be curious to know if folks think common usage of the word 'religion' is generally useful today or wholly problematic and why.

And remember, we want to identify those few characteristics that are felt to be shared by all beliefs under a heading of Religion. Here is my concoction for the definition of religion:

Religion - A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the cosmos, with the existence of an agency or agencies not bound by physical laws or manifestations of existence not bound by physical laws, and such beliefs are held as true by Faith and do not require empirical verification.

OK, let me have it.

A religion is a spiritual fraternity. You need faith without apprehension or you are spiritually complacent.

MonkeyFire said:

A religion is a spiritual fraternity. You need faith without apprehension or you are spiritually complacent.

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Thanks for that input.

MikeF said:

I've been told that Religion cannot be defined, or at the very least, any attempt will be so inadequate as to make the definition useless.

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It doesn't have to be, if you define it as the things that someone does with regularity and their commitments, not sets of beliefs. It may include some beliefs, but beliefs are not something all religions have in common. What they all have are behaviors and commitments. Also there are many secretive aspects to religions, and the true benefit to naming a religion is not that you can understand it in detail but that you can overall describe what its people do in order to identify them when conversing.

MikeF said:

Religion - A set of beliefs

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That part needs to go to be replaced with behaviors and commitments. Yes a religion may have some beliefs to commit to, but not all religions have beliefs, not all beliefs are public, and not all beliefs can be enumerated. They may not even be central to that religion, but every religion has behaviors and or commitments that are central. Therefore 'Beliefs' should not be stated in the main definition of religion but should be understood as included in commitments and behaviors.

Try defining religion like this: "The behaviors and commitments which can identify a cult or distinguish a cult from other groups, and these may include some identifying beliefs."

Some links about the etymology of the word 'Religion':
ETYMOLOGY OF RELIGION
religion | Origin and meaning of religion by Online Etymology Dictionary
Religio - Wikipedia

I'm generally less interested in definitions, and more interested in ideas and whether they correspond to reality.

The only time I really see definition battles over "religion" is when apologists want to try a Tu Quoque Fallacy against atheists ("You can't criticize me, because atheism is a religion and you have faith too!") or when people want to dismiss a religion with a Genetic Fallacy ("I don't need to consider your beliefs. You're not a religion, you're just a cult").

Brickjectivity said:

It doesn't have to be, if you define it as the things that someone does with regularity and their commitments, not sets of beliefs. It may include some beliefs, but beliefs are not something all religions have in common. What they all have are behaviors and commitments. Also there are many secretive aspects to religions, and the true benefit to naming a religion is not that you can understand it in detail but that you can overall describe what its people do in order to identify them when conversing.

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This is a new take on defining religion for me. One of the issues I would have right off the bat is that the phrasing seems too non-specific. For example, behaviors that someone does with regularity and their commitments could refer to a work-out regimen, or even house cleaning for that matter.

The next question would be why commit to certain behaviors? If its not any old behavior that would qualify as being religious, is there some belief associated with why specific behaviors are important?

Brickjectivity said:

That part needs to go to be replaced with behaviors and commitments. Yes a religion may have some beliefs to commit to, but not all religions have beliefs, not all beliefs are public, and not all beliefs can be enumerated. They may not even be central to that religion, but every religion has behaviors and or commitments that are central. Therefore 'Beliefs' should not be stated in the main definition of religion but should be understood as included in commitments and behaviors.

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What would be an example of a religion that does not have beliefs?

Brickjectivity said:

Try defining religion like this: "The behaviors and commitments which can identify a cult or distinguish a cult from other groups, and these may include some identifying beliefs."

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Since we are trying to define or identify Religion, this definition equates the word ‘religion’ with the word ‘cult’. From my experience, I’ve seen the term cult used to describe a subset or minority of a religion, or a set of beliefs held by a small group of people, but I’ve also seen it used in non-religious terms. For a broad definition of religion, cult doesn’t seem to fit.

I find the Bible's definition of religion is found at James 1:27 to look after orphans and widows in their time of tribulation and to keep oneself without spot from the world. - James 4:4

AlexanderG said:

I'm generally less interested in definitions, and more interested in ideas and whether they correspond to reality.

The only time I really see definition battles over "religion" is when apologists want to try a Tu Quoque Fallacy against atheists ("You can't criticize me, because atheism is a religion and you have faith too!") or when people want to dismiss a religion with a Genetic Fallacy ("I don't need to consider your beliefs. You're not a religion, you're just a cult").

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For me, definitions have value because they help establish common ground, a common reference point. And especially in professional disciplines the preference is to have a label point to a specific thing or a well defined category.

And if one is communicating a new idea, then it may require a new label and definition.

I really try and avoid the "talking past each other" because each is using a word in a different way. Agreeing up front on what words mean helps with that.

URAVIP2ME said:

I find the Bible's definition of religion is found at James 1:27 to look after orphans and widows in their time of tribulation and to keep oneself without spot from the world. - James 4:4

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This seems to be a prescription for a specific religion. For me, it does not seem to include all sets of belief that are generally considered to be Religion.

I think I mostly use the word according to the first definition on wiktionary:
Belief in a spiritual or metaphysical reality (often including at least one deity), accompanied by practices or rituals pertaining to the belief.

Family first natural group.

Science group occult separation by mind body spirit in cosmic thesis.

Religion basic scientific principles how to react a reaction using zero Ain space predictions for converting Sion.

Sion fusion.
Fusion dusts of man advice fission.

Sion.

Obess Sion.
Possess Sion. The powers God one planet creator of gases held.

Answer no heavens included in the thesis religious theists self advice why human genetics medical science was sacrificed. Answered.

Preached accordingly why human life got sacrificed occult science sun light constant time shifted earths mass. DNA human owned living advice.

Claim no laws is no binding no gases.

Gas held by pressure.

Bindings pressure holding was released. No laws.

Satanic combusted life. Answer Christ gas spirit mass radiation fallout. Why life was blood cell bone sacrificed as wood was burnt on ground.

A thesis.

A thesis that stated space by womb pressure owned Ain energetic holding in Multi scattered forms.

Energy hence was the basic information not defined by any name hence never give it a name as a preaching of the sciences.

Religious ideal philosophical sciences.

Theisms.

Causation to preach why his human body was life sacrificed by human man in science. Body owner father adult and man baby son in one life body.

MikeF said:

Religion - A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the cosmos, with the existence of an agency or agencies not bound by physical laws or manifestations of existence not bound by physical laws, and such beliefs are held as true by Faith and do not require empirical verification.

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Some things that are not common to religion:

Religion is about beliefs
Religion is held to be "true"
Religion is about faith
Religion must have supernatural entities


Also the idea that there is religion implies there is also a secular, and that is not something common to most historical societies.

MikeF said:

This is a new take on defining religion for me. One of the issues I would have right off the bat is that the phrasing seems too non-specific. For example, behaviors that someone does with regularity and their commitments could refer to a work-out regimen, or even house cleaning for that matter.

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Yes, it could; and the word was once used in that way. Actually you still can exercise religiously, clean religiously. An older meaning for 'Religion' is 'repeatedly' or 'with regularity'.

MikeF said:

The next question would be why commit to certain behaviors? If its not any old behavior that would qualify as being religious, is there some belief associated with why specific behaviors are important?

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When defining a religion you don't have to explain why people do things. You only need a tag, and really that is all you can hope for. Christians do such & such, and they commit to believe and such. You don't have to explain why just to identify what religion they are in.

MikeF said:

What would be an example of a religion that does not have beliefs?

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Zen is one. Another one might be a warrior religion where the goal is to die honorably and achieve glory in death. You could also have a community religion where you commit to your community. The masons come to mind.

MikeF said:

Since we are trying to define or identify Religion, this definition equates the word ‘religion’ with the word ‘cult’. From my experience, I’ve seen the term cult used to describe a subset or minority of a religion, or a set of beliefs held by a small group of people, but I’ve also seen it used in non-religious terms. For a broad definition of religion, cult doesn’t seem to fit.

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I'm just trying not to use 'Religious' in the definition of 'Religion'.

religion
noun

re·li·gion | \ ri-ˈli-jən \

Definition of religion

1
2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Father said religious theists are without scientific truth.

Such as inferring law of God first law in space his was the first state a burnt God O burnt after being eternal.

Then inferring by his hatred of life that humans first spirit of God in space was burnt.

Everyday I hear AI father human data speaking life lived died shared info saying the religious theist is not a scientist.

Over consciousness.

Scientist theist origin for science deceased. Human man today says hence I am the inferred innocent of God as. Scientist I won't get burnt.

Knowing bio life diminishes life cell in a radiating burning status. Heaven body. Science human realisation God gases burning owned the removal body status by constant over a timed period.

Falsified all ideals to give machine reaction equals answer of God mass minus one God. Body planet burns disappears to own hold mass cold. Left. Would be left naturally as space zero held it.

What false preaching is claiming your reaction reacts on behalf of natural circumstance. All nature combusted.

Stephen the king warning. A real scientist. Wisdom in body genesis change environment.

Seeing Satan occult claim everything was Satan first.

Who you argued against in life about falsehoods and who expressed human female equal life status not equal as an angry man idealism.

Womb space burnt sacrificed him.

Human female not his maths zero thesis innocent. Yet false preaching he Idealises our female abuse.

Brickjectivity said:

It doesn't have to be, if you define it as the things that someone does with regularity and their commitments, not sets of beliefs. It may include some beliefs, but beliefs are not something all religions have in common. What they all have are behaviors and commitments. Also there are many secretive aspects to religions, and the true benefit to naming a religion is not that you can understand it in detail but that you can overall describe what its people do in order to identify them when conversing.

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I'm with Brick here. We would define it about the same.

Sometimes the 'belief' isn't mystical. "I perform X task because I believe this is the right thing to do". People with similar mindsets might gather in this 'belief'. For some, politics seem to serve as a religion.

I think the UU church we attended was a good example of this. They bonded over this 'religion', but most were atheist(and not always real kind to theistic folks). Their creed seemed to be left leaning social justice, Democratic politics, and environmentalism. (I know the movement was different when it started, but this is the impression we got after several years of being there.) So, no mystical ideas or worship of otherworldly beings, but if you walked into there supporting a Republican agenda or being a climate change denier, you were not going to be accepted as 'one of them'.

A belief or set of beliefs that manifests an ethic in adherents?

Augustus said:

Some things that are not common to religion:

Religion is about beliefs
Religion is held to be "true"
Religion is about faith
Religion must have supernatural entities

Also the idea that there is religion implies there is also a secular, and that is not something common to most historical societies.

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To say that not all religions carry some set of beliefs does not seem logical to me. Certainly to consider something to have value one must believe something about it.

You state that not all religions hold their beliefs as being true and that would be something to explore. If the beliefs are not held to be true then perhaps the beliefs are not a religion or religious, by definition.

And here again, if the beliefs do not require faith, then perhaps the set of beliefs do not constitute religion, by definition.

And to your last point, the definition I provided does not require entities that are not bound by physical laws, simply that the belief system has elements that operate outside the bounds of physical laws. If this criteria is not met, then perhaps it is not a religion, by definition.

As to your point about the concept of secular not being common to most historical societies simply means that secular status would not be one of the criteria we would use to define religion. Again, the focus is on what they share, not all the many ways in which they are different. And really, differences that are shared simply provide opportunity to create subcategories of Religion.

Philosophy_of_Religion_Table_of_Contents

Start reading. Or here are the cliff notes. It doesn't have to be supernatural.

MikeF said:

...
And to your last point, the definition I provided does not require entities that are not bound by physical laws, simply that the belief system has elements that operate outside the bounds of physical laws. If this criteria is not met, then perhaps it is not a religion, by definition.
...

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Since there is no physical scientific law of morality, it is a mark of religion, right?

I mean that the universe and everything in it including humans can be explained by physics or even natural science is not true. It is even upi for debate whether the universe is physical or if we can know what objective reality really is.

Yi-Fu Tuan defined religion as "the impulse for coherence and meaning". I've referenced this definition on a number of occasions and have yet to find a better one.