Colt
Well-Known Member
Jesus taught baptism with faith, the spirit birth.
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All roads lead to the same God ?
- Thread starter John1.12
- Start date
Mark 16 .16 is to Israel still .
A real teacher teaches knowledge not faith.
But, even in the material world, if a student couldn't understand well what his teacher told him, he could simply believe him by faith (in this case, he would be a follower of his teacher, not his student).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Part of the differences we run across is how does one define "faith" within a Christian context? If I get baptized, attend services, pray, and then rob banks, do I really have "faith"?
Here's where Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats come in to clarify, namely that faith without intention to do God's will is really not faith at all. Indeed, one can believe some things about Jesus and still rob banks [the "goats"] , but with this being the case does that person have actual faith in Jesus so as to try and do what Jesus' taught [the "sheep"] and not rob banks or support politicians like Trump that only talk-the-talk?
[ I just had to slip that one in there]
Here's where Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats come in to clarify, namely that faith without intention to do God's will is really not faith at all. Indeed, one can believe some things about Jesus and still rob banks [the "goats"] , but with this being the case does that person have actual faith in Jesus so as to try and do what Jesus' taught [the "sheep"] and not rob banks or support politicians like Trump that only talk-the-talk?
[ I just had to slip that one in there]
actsfourthirty
Member
actsfourthirty
Member
“Baptismal regeneration” is the initiation into the new covenant!
Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
New Testament
Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)
Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!
Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)
John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)
John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Saved by baptism)
Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
1 Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
(Born of God) faith and baptism
Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Born of God by baptism
1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Christian baptism is an outward sign of the inward action of grace, or merits of Christ’s passion blood and death applied to our souls!
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
New Testament
Matt 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
( Disciples by baptism not faith alone)
Mk 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!
Jn 1: 11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Baptism)
John 1:26
John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)
John3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22
After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)
John 4:4
When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
John 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.(Baptism)
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
(Saved by baptism)
Acts 8:36
And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Philip preached Jesus and the result is justification by baptism!
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
1 Corinthians 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Gal 4:19
My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (baptism)
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
1 Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
(Born of God) faith and baptism
Jn 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Born of God by baptism
1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: see Ez 36
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (baptism rom 6:3-4)
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
actsfourthirty
Member
yes the sacrament of baptism
The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery
Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.
Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)
Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
actsfourthirty
Member
to all people in all ages
Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Jn 1:29
10And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
The Jew first..
No . I accept that the bible comes from God. I've not once spoke of church dogma .
From reading the bible . Its self evident, I believe .
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Looking in more detail: "faith" means trust -- to trust in God -- to believe before seeing proof, before the outcome.
Works done according to the teachings we have (in many religions) about what God wants from us, such as fairness, just action, doing good to the poor, the needy....works can be done in a more reaching way as a result of believing in God.
When we hear that God communicates: "Love your neighbor as yourself" -- to be 1 of the 2 greatest commandments, this can help us, if we have faith, to apply this principal more whole heartedly.
Notice this isn't from if one is only raised in a religion...but instead about whether the individual actually believes in God (only some will) -- has faith -- and hears this as His emphasized key teaching to us. The faith changes the works we would do (if the faith is the real thing, it is a revolution).
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
It's important to remember that Truth A doesn't cancel Truth B. Rather, A is true and B is true.
For example a person can have a doctrinal idea that isn't actually in the scripture, like the poorly conceived doctrinal theory that only Christians can ever be saved into heaven (as contrasting to the entirely different thing in scripture that says instead a very different thing entirely: that Christ is the Way).
But, in reality, we read in the New Testament this is the real picture for those not knowing of Christ in this life:
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
11 For God does not show favoritism.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 2:6-16 - New International Version
And now, no one reading this with faith can claim that all non-Christians are doomed.
Rather, only those that fully learned the accurate truth about Christ would be held to account for whether they then believe in Him, Christ Jesus, Who is One with God -- so that believing in Christ is equal to believing in God...if a person learns accurately about Christ. But, people aren't held to account for what they do not even know, of course.
If you contine reading it explains the complete opposite of what you just said . Paul does not speaking at chapter 2 . He's developing the whole picture of ' none are righteous, no not one " . Curious how you stopped at chapter 2 ? Why ?
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
I don't think you got what I was trying to say, and that might be my fault. I can write overly convoluted sentences.
Did I do that again?
Sometimes I don't write clearly enough. Please let me know. But, did you read through 100% of my post?
(I've read through Romans very carefully about 8 times now, over decades, with study groups and extensive commentaries, and also with cross references with all the rest of the Bible, and know it as well as any other book I've read so many times. It's such a powerful epistle and so valuable. If you imagined there is something in Romans I don't agree with, you didn't yet understand what I was attempting to say above. As I mentioned, that might be my own fault, unless you didn't read carefully.)
You must have missed out the next chapter. Chapter 2 is setting up anyone that thinks they are doing well .
Chapter 3
9¶What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are ALL under sin;
10¶As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, NOT ONE :
11There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God.
12They are ALL gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19¶Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: THAT EVERY MOUTH MAY BE STOPPED AND ALL !!!! THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD .
Of course it is not self-evident, I am sure it is not.
It depends on what you have put in place of the truth. Worldview and such .In light of whatever you have instead ,the Bible can seem like fiction to some .
You mean to say, yours is not a worldview but a holy truth? Come off of your pink cloud in the sky John1.12.
Of course mine is also a worldview ..A biblical world view .