Christianity is not the only way to God

Spirit of Light · Apr 18, 2021

Barry Johnson said:
Absolutely. Faith is the prerequisite to be saved by Jesus. Not works, not a religion , not the Catholic Church, not meditation , channelling, praying 5 times s day , fasting , flogging the body, abstaining, following rules ect But it is ONLY through Jesus.

What you say is of course your understanding of it, and that is no problem to me

Personally i found the truth within Sufism and i am sure its the right teaching for me, I can of course not say it is the right path for everyone else

that is not up to me to judge.

But i am glad you are seeing the truth you seek through Jesus

Brian2 · Apr 18, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Funny thing, Baha'u'llah said something a little different about judgment. He said that judgement comes through God.

“Dost thou believe thou hast the power to frustrate His Will, to hinder Him from executing His judgment, or to deter Him from exercising His sovereignty? Pretendest thou that aught in the heavens or in the earth can resist His Faith? No, by Him Who is the Eternal Truth! Nothing whatsoever in the whole of creation can thwart His Purpose. Cast away, therefore, the mere conceit thou dost follow, for mere conceit can never take the place of truth. Be thou of them that have truly repented and returned to God, the God Who hath created thee, Who hath nourished thee, and made thee a minister among them that profess thy faith.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 220

Yes judgement comes through God and Jesus is the man who will be doing the judgement according to the New Testament.

Marcion · Apr 18, 2021

Brian2 said:
Yes judgement comes through God and Jesus is the man who will be doing the judgement according to the New Testament.

May I ask, why do you address the New Testament as though it were a person?

ameyAtmA · Apr 18, 2021

Hi Yoshua

Yoshua said:
Hi Amey,

I just want to answer you on behalf of Barry since we both in the same faith.

Thanks

Christianity believed in God and Satan (demons or evil spirits).

Demons are rAkshasa and asura, but on rare occasion, a saintly being is born in their families e.g. Prahlad. Also, the demons are given a chance to improve and become good.

The Bible said in Isaiah 45:5-7,

5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, 6 so that from the rising of the sun
to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me. I am the Lord, and there is no other.
7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things. NIV

This aligns with what Brahman' is - really pronounced Bramh' (ब्रह्म).
Brahman' is the Ultimate reality, absolute truth and the Source of all sources, cause of all causes.

So yes, I will say God is Brahman' i.e. we are speaking of the same Highest Principle as God.
YudhishThir asks Bheeshma : WHO is the One and only One (kim ekaM ?) who should be worshipped? What is the utmost righteous Dharma of all dharmas to be maintained and followed?

Bheeshma answers: Jagat Prabhum Deva-devam, anantam, purushottamam, anAdi-nidhanaM, VishNuM...
One must worship the Supreme Lord and guardian of the whole existence, the God of gods, the infinite One by way of space, time and substance (anantaM), the Best of all Beings, the One Who has no beginning, no Source, and no end, is Eternal.

The Bhagavad Geeta is a good read that explains Brahman' very well.
I will just leave a few glimpses of the 1000 names that describes Brahman':

2. VishNu : The omnipresent One, the all-pervading One. There is no place He is not.
3. bhUta-bhavya-bhavat prabhU : Lord of the Past, Present and Future
4. bhUta-krut : krut can mean to create or destroy, and both are applicable to the Ultimate One.
5. bhUta-bhrut : Sustainer of all beings
6. bhAva : Who is blissfully Himself alone, as well as manifests (bhava) this world, and is the bhAva (expression) that gave rise to this world/appearance.
7. bhUtAmtA : Innermost Self of all beings (BG 10.20) -- Holy Spirit?
8. bhUta-bhAvanah: : Generator and nourisher of all beings
9. pUtAtmA : Purest Self of everything, the heart and center
10. paramAtmA : The Highest Self, Supreme Self of everything, the heart and center
11. muktAnAm-paramA-gatih: : The Highest goal and destiny of the liberated ones.
12. avyaya : imperishable, eternal, indestructible. Not only is He imperishable immortal as the AtmA , Highest and innermost Self, but His Nature (avyakta prakruti) is also indestructible owing to the law of thermodynamics.
13. Purushah: : The [innermost, Supreme and really the Only] Being (h: visarga on many sahasranama naams is for grammar)
14. sAkshI : Witness - the Sole real authentic Witness , and the innermost witness of everything manifest and unmanifest.
15. kshetradnya (also written as kshetrajn~a) : Knower of the field -- where field = body of living beings, inorganic bodies, cosmos, cosmic entity, universe, multiverse, time... at each level of identification, he is the knower - kshetradnya.
16. akshar : a-kshar. kshar = perishable. a-kshar = imperishable which He obviously is - as the eternal Self (Spirit) as well as the avyakta prakruti - see avyaya (#12) above.
17. yog : The very connector and the connection between the manifest beings and their Source, Himself. He is the very yog itself, yogeshwar (Ishwar of the yogIs Who Himself connects them to Him), yogI, yogIshwar, the cause of Oneness and Oneness itself.
18. yogavidhAm netA : The leader of the knowers of yoga i.e. Leader of the yogis or yog practitioners.
19. pradhAna-purusheshwhara : The Ishwar (Lord, God and controller) of both the pradhAna (primordial nature, also mAyA) as well as the purushas (individual entities that identify as that specific individual).
21. Purushottamah: : The uttam purush - the Supreme, purest, highest Being (happens to be the innermost Being, the most fundamental source of existence.
22. sarvah: : The ALL. He is everything, all manifest and unmanifest entities. He is the cognizer of all, at all times (omniscient, omnipresent).
23. sharvah: : In whom all beings get absorbed at pralay , in whom everything gets dismantled and reconstructed.
24. Shivah: : Pure. Auspicious. Free of taints
25. sthANuh: : eternally unchanging, steady, unwavering - He is the Sat, Satya behind the transient, fluctuating and moving.
26. bhUtAdi : the origin, source of all beings , Adi - the primordial One.
27. nidhiravyayah: : the unchanging (avyay) resting place (nidhi) , destiny and eternal final shelter of all beings, into whom beings get absorbed at pralay, and He alone remains.
28. sambhava : Who maifests at will (BG 4.8 yadA yadA hi dharmasya... descends to protect the good and destroy the evil when it crosses limits).
38. anAdi-nidhana : Having no begining, and eternal
45. Amara PrabhU : 1. The Lord of the immortals 2. The Eternal immortal Lord, The Supreme (PrabhU) who remains whereas everything else perishes at some point - or - is a derivative of Him and not the primordial. He alone is primordial.
46. MahAsvana : OF Supreme auspicious/holy Sound or Shabda-Brahman.
39. dhAtA: Support, shelter, hold everything together
40. VidhAtA: The Supreme supporter (also shelter of Ananta that supports the world), supporter of the pre-requisites to creation, shelter, supplier, nourisher, dispenser of fruits of actions
41. DhAturuttama : Best, purest and the finest of substances i.e. Pure Consciousness. Chit, that supersedes all substances and states.
42. aprameya : Undefinable. We cannot pin down any "pramANa" - material proof or measure, for Him, hence aprameya.
29. bhAvanah: : Distributes the fruits of actions for the beings (jivas).
30. bhartA : Sustainer, shelter and nourisher of all, supplies the needful. Lord
31. prabhava : the Supreme Origin, Source of everything.
32. prabhU : The most powerful, as evident from His actions.
33. Ishwarah: : The One in charge of the whole Universe and at each level of existence.
34. svayambhU : Self-existent, Who does not have any creator i.e. the Original

It is emphasized that there is no other God. He is the God who created the universe and humans.

Agreed

Therefore, any beliefs or faiths that are not in accordance with Christianity is a false god (demons or evil spirits).

Either that or there is error in / limitation to human understanding, comprehension or interpretation - which applies both ways.
Further, there is so much involved in Divine Communication -- language and concepts as can be understood by the target audience (pAtra) at a given time or era (kaal) and place - nation (pAtra) , to bring a common moral ground.

e.g. Brahman' can be explained simply, but there is a lot more to Brahman' than meets the eye. Is it not possible that Brahman' is not elaborated in detail in the Abrahamic scriptures?
As a result we see so many Christians turn to Hindu dharma, and say they found answers in the Geeta and Upanishads that their religion did not provide?

Why should God have any restrictions? Brahman' is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.

--------------------------
I will leave it here. I am not convincing anyone to become a Hindu or follow the eternal dharma.

You have helped by providing those versus to answer your first question:

Q: Are the Hindu Brahman' (the Highest) and God of Christianity the same God?
A: If and Only If, and as long as, God is Brahman' , the Highest Ultimate Reality, the Absolute Truth, existence-pure-consciousness-bliss, as described --- which at least the versus you have posted seem to say --- my answer is yes.

Unveiled Artist · Apr 18, 2021

Meandflower said:
Christianity is not the only way to God

I have evidence from the Bible itself:

God is love, whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him, 1 John 4:16

What do you think about that?

To add. That is giving a choice to who wants to follow the biblical god and who doesn't.

If you're not part of that whosoever, you're basically believing in an idol.

Christian god has coersion and ultimatums. I don't think these exist in most non abrahamic belief systems.

Also,you have to take the bible as a whole. Whosoever believes in christ. If you don't believe in Christ and his god, you don't believe in the same god.

If it said he blesses all who believe no matter who they are and background (unconditional love) than yes. But it's false.

Brian2 · Apr 18, 2021

Marcion said:
May I ask, why do you address the New Testament as though it were a person?

I didn't. I guess it would be less ambiguous if I had put it around the other way.......................According to the New Testament judgement comes through God and Jesus is the man who will be doing the judgement.

Windwalker · Apr 18, 2021

Barry Johnson said:
Romans 2 is talking about un saved Gentiles who by nature do things because they have a conscience ,the things contained in the law . They do it with out realising it is the point .

I find it interesting how you call them "unsaved", while scripture says they have the law of God written upon their hearts.

So God does not look at the heart? He looks at whether or not you got circumcised and observe the sabbath days properly instead, or joined the correct Christian denomination? Is it necessary to perform a ritual first for God to accept you, even though you are actually doing the will of the Father beforehand? That seems off.

John1.12 · Apr 18, 2021

Windwalker said:
I find it interesting how you call them "unsaved", while scripture says they have the law of God written upon their hearts.

So God does not look at the heart? He looks at whether or not you got circumcised and observe the sabbath days properly instead, or joined the correct Christian denomination? That seems off to me.

Yes they have breath in them, lungs , heart, brain, and a conscience , a soul and spirit Non of these things ,even though God given do not qualify a person as 'in Christ ' ( Saved ) This is how we come into the world ( in Adam) Included with the conscience is the capacity to do good . Not every one is s serial killer . We all may not kill . There are things we do like some things of the law by nature even though the law was given to the Jews.

John1.12 · Apr 18, 2021

Windwalker said:
I find it interesting how you call them "unsaved", while scripture says they have the law of God written upon their hearts.

So God does not look at the heart? He looks at whether or not you got circumcised and observe the sabbath days properly instead, or joined the correct Christian denomination? Is it necessary to perform a ritual first for God to accept you, even though you are actually doing the will of the Father beforehand? That seems off.

Where does it say they have the law of God written upon their hearts? Which verse are you referring to ?

Trailblazer · Apr 18, 2021

Yoshua said:
It is emphasized that there is no other God. He is the God who created the universe and humans. Therefore, any beliefs or faiths that are not in accordance with Christianity is a false god (demons or evil spirits).

You are assuming the the God who created the universe and humans is only to be found in Christianity.
The one true God is to be found in all the revealed religions, not only in Christianity.
So, you do not believe that Judaism knows about the one true God of Abraham?
Abraham came before Christ so He championed the belief in one God.

Manifestations of God who are God's Messengers have been sent by God to humanity long before the Bible was ever written. Hinduism is the oldest religion in the world and it had a Messenger called Krishna who revealed God.

“Our purpose in revealing these words is to show that the one true God hath, in His all-highest and transcendent station, ever been, and will everlastingly continue to be, exalted above the praise and conception of all else but Him. His creation hath ever existed, and the Manifestations of His Divine glory and the Day Springs of eternal holiness have been sent down from time immemorial, and been commissioned to summon mankind to the one true God. That the names of some of them are forgotten and the records of their lives lost is to be attributed to the disturbances and changes that have overtaken the world.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 174

Trailblazer · Apr 18, 2021

Barry Johnson said:
He's not saying no one will see him EVER again. He's explaining he's going away.

That is exactly what Jesus is saying.

the world seeth me no more (John 14:19)
And now I am no more in the world (John 17:11)

Barry Johnson said:
There's literally too many verses to put on Jesus return all through the bible. Its slightly insane to even say it.

The verses that you BELIEVE refer to Jesus do not refer to Jesus, they refer to another man who would be the return of the Christ Spirit. The body of Jesus died and the soul of Jesus ascended to Heaven and took on a spiritual body so the body of Jesus cannot ever return to Earth. Jesus returned to Heaven from whence He came and lives in Heaven forever.

There is not even one verse in the Bible where Jesus says He is going to return to Earth. Don't bother with the Son of man in the clouds verses because they are not referring to Jesus.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Trailblazer · Apr 18, 2021

Aupmanyav said:
How can that be? The latest from Allah is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya religion.

You are free to believe that if you want to but I do not believe he was sent by Allah.
As you know, I believe that Baha'u'llah was the latest Messenger of Allah and there will be no more Messengers until at least the year 2852 AD.

John1.12 · Apr 18, 2021

Trailblazer said:
That is exactly what Jesus is saying.

the world seeth me no more (John 14:19)
And now I am no more in the world (John 17:11)

The verses that you BELIEVE refer to Jesus do not refer to Jesus, they refer to another man who would be the return of the Christ Spirit. The body of Jesus died and the soul of Jesus ascended to Heaven and took on a spiritual body so the body of Jesus cannot ever return to Earth. Jesus returned to Heaven from whence He came and lives in Heaven forever.

There is not even one verse in the Bible where Jesus says He is going to return to Earth. Don't bother with the Son of man in the clouds verses because they are not referring to Jesus.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

No ,this is what your religion has taught you. This is on par with the things Mormons impose onto the bible. Like Jesus ' lost years ' where he supposedly visited native Americans ect lol

Windwalker · Apr 18, 2021

Barry Johnson said:
Where does it say they have the law of God written upon their hearts? Which verse are you referring to ?

You didn't read my post where I quoted Romans 2: 14,15, as well as referencing the Roman Centurion whom Jesus said that Pagan, Non-Jew, had more faith that anyone in all Israel? These who you say are "unsaved"?

"(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)"

So, yes, if they are living fulfilling God's will, that makes them children of God. But you say they are damned instead, "unsaved" as you call these people the Apostle Paul is referring to? I wonder if Paul would agree with that?

Trailblazer · Apr 18, 2021

Brian2 said:
Yes judgement comes through God and Jesus is the man who will be doing the judgement according to the New Testament.

We all have our own beliefs, and of course these are beliefs so they can never be verified...

I believe that judgement comes through God and Baha'u'llah is the man who will be doing the judgement, according to the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

“Say: There is no place of refuge for you, no asylum to which ye can flee, no one to defend or to protect you in this Day from the fury of the wrath of God and from His vehement power, unless and until ye seek the shadow of His Revelation. This, indeed, is His Revelation which hath been manifested unto you in the person of this Youth. Glorified, then, be God for so effulgent, so precious, so wondrous a vision.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 257

It will be the Son of Man who judges...

Matthew 25:31-33 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.

I (don't) wonder why Jesus did not say "When the I come in my glory and all my angels are with me."

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

With regard to His earthly mission, Jesus called Himself the Son of Man but whenever Jesus spoke of the Son of Man who would come in the clouds in the glory of His Father He always spoke in the third person.

Trailblazer · Apr 18, 2021

Barry Johnson said:
No ,this is what your religion has taught you. This is on par with the things Mormons impose onto the bible. Like Jesus ' lost years ' where he supposedly visited native Americans ect lol

My religion did not teach me any of this. I learned all this on my own by reading the Bible.
So I see you cannot find one single verse where Jesus says that He is going to return to Earth.
You cannot find what is not there.

Windwalker · Apr 18, 2021

Trailblazer said:
My religion did not teach me any of this. I learned all this on my own by reading the Bible.
So I see you cannot find one single verse where Jesus says that He is going to return to Earth.
You cannot find what is not there.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I think you may be overstating things a bit. Clearly, the gospels writers themselves understood that Jesus would return, and said so in many places. But if you mean when they ascribed words to Jesus, in their stories they wrote about him and what he said, they have him saying "The Son of Man" will return, and that means someone else?

That cannot be, considering the gospel writers themselves speak of Jesus himself returning, and even have Jesus himself saying, "I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also." Jn. 14:1-3 That is clearly anticipating the return of Jesus Christ, not another person. The "Son of Man" is a messianic title, whom the gospels writers identify as Jesus himself. Jesus is saying, he is the messiah and will return, speaking of himself in the 3rd person, which is not uncommon.

There are numerous other references as well, by those outside the gospel, such as Paul. Paul wrote his letters, before there was any gospels to read. And he believed Jesus was going to come back for the church.

Do you imagine the gospel authors had a different idea than him, when they wrote their gospels 30 to 40 plus years after Paul, about it being a different person coming back? In this regard, they are consistent in that view of Jesus Christ's return.

It's puzzling to me to hear this. Here's a list of references anticipating Christ's return throughout the gospels, and even in Jesus's own words about himself returning.

What Does the Bible Say About The Second Coming Of Jesus?

Trailblazer · Apr 18, 2021

Windwalker said:
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I think you may be overstating things a bit. Clearly, the gospels writers themselves understood that Jesus would return, and said so in many places. But if you mean when they ascribed words to Jesus, in their stories they wrote about him and what he said, they have him saying "The Son of Man" will return, and that means someone else?

That cannot be, considering the gospel writers themselves speak of Jesus himself returning, and even have Jesus himself saying, "I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also." Jn. 14:1-3 That is clearly anticipating the return of Jesus Christ, not another person.

Do you think that only Jesus was the Son of Man? Read the Bible and see just how many references there are to the Son of man.

No, it is not the return of the same man Jesus because the same man Jesus died on the cross and He knew He was not coming back to Earth after that. That is precisely why Jesus said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Then decades later the gospel writers wrote stories about Jesus rising from the dead and tried to bring him back to life. Most Christians believed that until recent times.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

The only way the same body of Jesus could return to Earth is if He rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven and is still alive in Heaven, but physical bodies do not reside in Heaven, which is a purely spiritual world. That is one way we know that the 'physical body' of Jesus is not in Heaven and thus can never return from Heaven.

Christianity fabricated doctrines that say that Jesus ascended to Heaven in the same body He had on Earth so that they could keep waiting for the same Jesus to return to Earth, forever. To anyone who knows anything about psychology, this is all about an emotional attachment to the same man Jesus, because if Christians really wanted to know the truth it is all in the Bible. But Christians cannot face the fact that Jesus will never return to Earth, they want to keep waiting, and that is why never even try to refute my posts that prove -- using their Bible -- that the same Jesus is never coming back to Earth.

Christians cannot make this work, because Jesus never said that He was going to return to Earth, not even once in the entire New Testament, and that is precisely what all the prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled and still Jesus has not returned.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to Earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago, especially in light of all the other verses that contradict that (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30).

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not His physical body, and please note that Jesus never said He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on Earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do. These are all man-made Christian doctrines that resulted from misinterpreting one verse after another, believing that all the verses about the return of Christ and the Kingdom of God on Earth referred to Jesus. Clearly, the Son of Man who would come in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory was not Jesus, as can easily be seen by what the verses say when Jesus differentiates Himself from the Son of Man who would come in the glory of His Father.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Jesus did not say "my body will come again." The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that was what Jesus promised to send. Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on Earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in Heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in Heaven, not on Earth.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

Brian2 · Apr 18, 2021

Trailblazer said:
Do you think that only Jesus was the Son of Man? Read the Bible and see just how many references there are to the Son of man.

No, it is not the return of the same man Jesus because the same man Jesus died on the cross and He knew He was not coming back to Earth after that. That is precisely why Jesus said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Then decades later the gospel writers wrote stories about Jesus rising from the dead and tried to bring him back to life. Most Christians believed that until recent times.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

The only way the same body of Jesus could return to Earth is if He rose from the dead and ascended to Heaven and is still alive in Heaven, but physical bodies do not reside in Heaven, which is a purely spiritual world. That is one way we know that the 'physical body' of Jesus is not in Heaven and thus can never return from Heaven.

Christianity fabricated doctrines that say that Jesus ascended to Heaven in the same body He had on Earth so that they could keep waiting for the same Jesus to return to Earth, forever. To anyone who knows anything about psychology, this is all about an emotional attachment to the same man Jesus, because if Christians really wanted to know the truth it is all in the Bible. But Christians cannot face the fact that Jesus will never return to Earth, they want to keep waiting, and that is why never even try to refute my posts that prove -- using their Bible -- that the same Jesus is never coming back to Earth.

Christians cannot make this work, because Jesus never said that He was going to return to Earth, not even once in the entire New Testament, and that is precisely what all the prophecies for the return of Christ have been fulfilled and still Jesus has not returned.

John 14:2-3 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus did not say ‘how’ He would come so there is no reason to think this one verse is Jesus saying He will come to Earth again in the same physical body He had when He walked the earth 2,000 years ago, especially in light of all the other verses that contradict that (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30).

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not His physical body, and please note that Jesus never said He would come again and ‘do’ anything on earth that would require a body, like building a Kingdom of God on Earth, as most Christians believe Jesus will do. These are all man-made Christian doctrines that resulted from misinterpreting one verse after another, believing that all the verses about the return of Christ and the Kingdom of God on Earth referred to Jesus. Clearly, the Son of Man who would come in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory was not Jesus, as can easily be seen by what the verses say when Jesus differentiates Himself from the Son of Man who would come in the glory of His Father.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Look carefully at Mark 8:38. Look at how the verse is separated by a semicolon and Jesus says “of him also” indicating that the Son of man is someone other than Himself who would come in the glory of his Father with the holy angels

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Again, in Matthew 16:27, Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father. Jesus did not say “I will come in the glory of my Father.”

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Look carefully at Luke 9:26. Look at how Jesus separated Himself from the Son of man (ashamed of me, of him shall), and then Jesus said that the Son of man shall come in his own glory and in His Father’s glory. Jesus did not say that the Son of man will come in my glory.

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Jesus did not say "my body will come again." The spirit of Jesus did come again, in the Person of Baha'u'llah, and that was what Jesus promised to send. Jesus was a Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit and Baha’u’llah was another Comforter who brought the Holy Spirit.

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

"and receive you unto myself" is obviously about the Spirit of Jesus, not about His physical body, because there would be no way that the disciples Jesus was speaking to could receive the body of Jesus on Earth since they were no longer living on earth. Where Jesus was in Heaven and that is where the disciples also are, so that is where Jesus received them. That is why Jesus said that He went to prepare a place for them, a place in Heaven, not on Earth.

John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.

Through reading the Bible alone it would be hard to come up with the idea that Jesus is not coming back when He says He is coming back and that the Son of Man will come and that He is the Son of Man. That someone else may be the Son of Man comes from other sources, not the Bible.
You quote these verses:
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

These verses however have to be seen in the light of other verses and not taken out of context. That Jesus meant that He was going from the earth BUT that He would return is seen in other places, including this verse:
Matthew 23:39 reads: ‘For I tell you, you will not see me again, until you say, “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”‘ (ESV).

Brian2 · Apr 18, 2021

Trailblazer said:
We all have our own beliefs, and of course these are beliefs so they can never be verified...

I believe that judgement comes through God and Baha'u'llah is the man who will be doing the judgement, according to the Writings of Baha'u'llah.

“Say: There is no place of refuge for you, no asylum to which ye can flee, no one to defend or to protect you in this Day from the fury of the wrath of God and from His vehement power, unless and until ye seek the shadow of His Revelation. This, indeed, is His Revelation which hath been manifested unto you in the person of this Youth. Glorified, then, be God for so effulgent, so precious, so wondrous a vision.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 257

It will be the Son of Man who judges...

Matthew 25:31-33 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.

I (don't) wonder why Jesus did not say "When the I come in my glory and all my angels are with me."

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

With regard to His earthly mission, Jesus called Himself the Son of Man but whenever Jesus spoke of the Son of Man who would come in the clouds in the glory of His Father He always spoke in the third person.

I do know that when there is contradiction between the Bible and Baha'u'llah's writings I side with the Bible and you with your prophet's writings.
Jesus always speaks of the Son of Man in the third person and I have already posted where the New Testament tells us that it is Jesus who is coming to judge the earth. (Acts 17:31, John 5:22)

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