Depends on what you mean when you say islam has no clergy.
It has scholars who interpret the Quran and religious lawyers who apply its law when they can get away with it.
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It has scholars who interpret the Quran and religious lawyers who apply its law when they can get away with it.
ecco
Veteran Member
Which eyewitnesses wrote about it? Where can we find their first-hand accounts?
You probably will never believe in Allah.
Most people who believe in Allah were born into Muslim families and raised to believe in Allah.
Most people who believe in Jesus and the crucifixion were born into Christian families and raised to believe in Jesus and the crucifixion.
What did Allah tell you and why are you convinced it was Allah?
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
And here I thought they was referring to the thread being moved to a "debates" section....
That's ok, They can keep the Fruble...
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Jesus did not say that he would be ransom. He did say that those who believed in him would have eternal life. Does that mean rotting in hell for eternity? Matthew didn't think so, but Matthew was not God, Matthew was not Jesus, and Matthew is just a human being. Do we take the word of a human being? I thought that we were supposed to believe in God, not human beings?
Jesus did not die willingly. Jesus asked God "why hath thou forsaken me?" Does that seem willing?
Rome crucified many. The roads to Rome were littered with dead and dying people who were either tied or nailed to crosses or posts, and all were ordered not to feed or water them.
Proof that Rome crucified someone does that make that someone God. Otherwise, there would be a large number of Gods running around.
Is it possible that someone other than Jesus was crucified? If so, Quran 4:157 could be right. But if someone other than Jesus was crucified, wouldn't one of Jesus's friends have noticed? Maybe they did notice, but, because they didn't want the real Jesus crucified, they might have remained silent?
Jesus died as a Jew on the cross. He likely looked Jewish (though, I understand that on dad's side of the family, the ethnicity and religion might or might not have been different). Jews, at the time, didn't look blond, like the Jews who fled from Egypt and settled in German (where blonds were). They had curly black hair, dark brown eyes, and pretty much looked like their Semite Arab close relatives. They had dark curly hair on their bodies. Modern DNA analysis shows that Jewish DNA is all over the map (they took on the DNA of the various people that they lived with). This might mean that they had un-permitted sexual contact or rape.
It was quite a different appearance for Jesus once he rose from the grave. He was blond (and only Miss Clairol could tell if it was a die job). The bible describes the risen Jesus as having long blond hair, and red eyes (somewhat like an albino). In fact, the description was so much like an albino, that the Catholic church wanted to depict risen Jesus as brown haired, so people wouldn't think that he was a freak. The bible says that the feet of Jesus were bronze in color (perhaps from the oils that were rubbed on feet, which would otherwise chaff in the desert sands).
Everyone says that a black haired Jesus died, and a blond Jesus rose, and that should prove that it was, indeed, Jesus. It's a miracle....just like the used car that I sold that turned out not to be a corvette after all (but it was a used dodge). If you want people to believe you, you should say believable things.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
He?
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
My apologies.
I typically use "he" for everyone...
It isn't a being a jerk thing, it is a laziness thing.
He is the shortest of all the pronouns other than it and it causes all manner of issues
I will try to remember you are not a he
There was a thread on here a long time ago where in the bible a person in 12 generations would be a mighty ruler and that turned out to be Mohammed.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Oh. I just thought you were missing an s or didn't know. I still don't know who half the people on RF are. No biggy.
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McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
I honestly will try to remember, but I am getting to the point where my memory is not the greatest.
So feel free to give me crap if I do it again.
Please provide the entire verse.
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
The no clergy argument was made by converts to Islam. Unlike most forms of Christianity, and like Judaism, in Islam you do not require ordained priests to mediate between you and God.
Teritos
Active Member
In Biblical Hebrew "Alah" means "curse".
Teritos
Active Member
Jesus Hebrew name in shortened form is Yeshu and also Jesus was hanged on Passover according to the Bible. And the Jews thought he was a "demonic sorcerer" who performs miracles through the devil. And Jesus was also to be stoned at first, but was in the end hanged on the cross. The descriptions fit Jesus as you can see, but maybe you are right, and this is another Jesus who coincidentally have the same name, but the Talmud is not the only evidence we have, there are also Roman sources that recorded the death of Jesus.
Paul saw Jesus on earth. Jesus appeared to him in the desert and also spoke to him. Jesus was literally there and they had a conversation.
I don't see any contradictions, the alleged contradictions can be explained.
Teritos
Active Member
Because the Bible has already prophesied Allah and Muhammad. The Bible has already predicted that another god would come who preaches a different gospel, also the Bible has said that this god will build his own house on the place where God's temple stood. And as we can see today, on this place today in Jerusalem stands a mosque.
Teritos
Active Member
Cornelius Tacitus (b. ca. 52-54 AD), for example, writes: "Christ had been executed under the leadership of Tiberius by the procurator Pontius Pilate" (Cornelius Tacitus, Annalen, p 740; XV. 44).
The Jewish general and historian Flavius Josephus (b. 37 A.D.) states that Jesus was condemned to death on the cross by Pilate (Flavius Josephus, vol. 1 515 f; XVIII.3.3).
In the British Museum is the manuscript of a letter written about 73 CE by a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion. It mentions the execution of Christ. (F. F. Bruce, The Credibility of the Writings of the New Testament, p. 122).
Lucian, a satirist of the 2nd century AD referred to Jesus as "the man crucified in Palestine" (Lucian, On the End of the Life of Peregrinus, in Lucian vol. 2, p. 9, Greek and Roman Classics, vol. 36).
Sounds like a game of semantics, what they are effectively doing is defining clergy as mediators between God and man.
Is that the common understanding of what a member of the clergy is? I think it is just a name for a religious leader, and Islam has no shortage of them.
You are confusing historians, satiricists and others with witnesses. They are different categories.
Teritos
Active Member
In the end he was rejected by everyone, even by his own disciples.(Matthew 26:74-75) In the end he died alone, even though he performed so many miracles and healed many, no one wanted to share his suffering with him, they all left him.
A rich disciple of Jesus came and took the dead body of Jesus and put it to the newly purchased tomb.(Matthew 27:57-60)
The seed are the Christians who are newborn through Jesus and have Jesus in them. Jesus is the Father of them.(Isaiah 9:6)
Jesus' days were prolonged by being raised from the dead. His life will never end again.(Revelation 1:18)
And by the way, the Bible itself says that Isaiah 53 is Jesus. See Acts of the Apostles 8:32-35
Teritos
Active Member
For eyewitness accounts, see Bible.
Teritos
Active Member
Matthew 26:28
For this is My blood of the covenant, which is being poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Mark 10:45
For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.
Hebrews 9:22
And without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.