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The Holy Spirit as a "she"

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
The Holy Spirit is known as the third "person" of the Trinity

And if you are a "person" then you have a gender, that is a part of personhood

Given that the other two persons are male would it not be fair to give The Holy Spirt feminine pronouns?

Given that over half the population are female I think this would be a good move

It's not fair having all of the Trinity male

I for one will be doing that anyway...

I hope others will follow me and that in time this will become a common convention

Does anyone have any objections?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It doesn't make sense that a singular deity would have gender.
So the genderless pronoun "they" is best.
And this should really suit those favoring a trinity.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Monsignor Poma, a Catholic theologian said that once. That is that the Father represents the male archetype, which is clearly present in the Ancient Testament.
But Ruach (the Holy Spirity) is a feminine noun because it represents the female archetype.
And that is why the Holy Spirit made Jesus's coming possible. When John says The Word became Flesh, that is what happened.

Of course these are just personal interpretations, underlines Monsignor Poma.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Holy Spirit is known as the third "person" of the Trinity

And if you are a "person" then you have a gender, that is a part of personhood
Usually people are a bit more oblique about their gods being anthropomorphic.

You seem to be ignoring the reality of gender: even among humans, it's not a binary, and not everyone has one distinct gender.

That aside, I see no reason to assume that a non-human person would necessarily have a gender at all. You might as well be saying that having DNA and sweat glands are parts of "personhood."
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
You seem to be ignoring the reality of gender: even among humans, it's not a binary, and not everyone has one distinct gender.
It is nonetheless a factor though, something that needs to be addressed when considering her nature and how she relates to us
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Usually people are a bit more oblique about their gods being anthropomorphic.

You seem to be ignoring the reality of gender: even among humans, it's not a binary, and not everyone has one distinct gender.

That aside, I see no reason to assume that a non-human person would necessarily have a gender at all. You might as well be saying that having DNA and sweat glands are parts of "personhood."
Actually we are speaking of archetypes.
Archetypes have nothing to do with gender, but with the soul characteristics.

Motherhood, sweetness, kindness are some traits of the female archetype.
Strength, wisdom, protectiveness are some traits of the male one.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Actually we are speaking of archetypes.
Archetypes have nothing to do with gender, but with the soul characteristics.
IMO, archetypes- and the whole idea of "souls" - are nonsense.

Motherhood, sweetness, kindness are some traits of the female archetype.
Strength, wisdom, protectiveness are some traits of the male one.
Please don't pretend that your prejudices are universal truths.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is nonetheless a factor though, something that needs to be addressed when considering her nature and how she relates to us
Why does Spirit have to have a gender? Why do you feel its something that has to be addressed? Does wind have a gender? Do you need to attribute masculine and feminine genders to northerly and southerly winds?

For myself, Spirit, is non-gender. It simply "IS". It doesn't need to be anthropomorphized. It's like air. It's breathed.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Because a spirit is a person
But biblically speaking, it never once refers to God as "a" spirit". It says, "God is Spirit", not "a spirit".

Furthermore, "person" is merely a very, highly metaphorical terms used by theologians to attempt to talk about the nature of God. It is not a biblical term. Jesus never speaks of the Father as a "person", nor of the Holy Spirit as a "person". Those are theological terms to try to get the limited human mind to apprehend something beyond definitions. They really are not meant to be taken literally.

For instance, the bible refers to the eye of God, or the hand of God. Does God have a human body? Or are these just expressions to get you try to understand highly abstract things like "power" or "awareness". Person, likewise, is to get you to think of God in terms of "intimacy", for instance, among other qualities. To take these things as actual definitions of God, is a mistake.

And persons have to have a gender, even if that gender is defined as neutral
And then you have verses that say this about God. "God is not a man, so he does not lie" Likewise, God is not a man, that he has a penis, or a woman that she has a vagina. And so forth. When scripture speaks of God in gender terms, that is a device of language and culture. It's not a definition. It's a metaphor.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
The Holy Spirit is known as the third "person" of the Trinity

And if you are a "person" then you have a gender, that is a part of personhood

Given that the other two persons are male would it not be fair to give The Holy Spirt feminine pronouns?

Given that over half the population are female I think this would be a good move

It's not fair having all of the Trinity male

I for one will be doing that anyway...

I hope others will follow me and that in time this will become a common convention

Does anyone have any objections?




"The Latin word persona was originally used to denote the mask worn by an actor. From this it was applied to the role he assumed, and, finally, to any character on the stage of life, to any individual. This article discusses (1) the definition of "person", especially with reference to the doctrine of the Incarnation; and (2) the use of the word persona and its Greek equivalents in connection with the Trinitarian disputes."

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Person
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
In Jewish Kabbalah, the glory of the divine presence, shekina, is referred to in the feminine.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
And if you are a "person" then you have a gender, that is a part of personhood
...

Please tell why do you think it must be so?

I rather believe just what the Bible tells:

However when he, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you into all truth, for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he hears, he will speak. He will declare to you things that are coming.
John 16:13

I think Spirit is not same as physical body. But, if would have to choose is the Spirit of truth man or woman, I would say Spirit is He, as told in the Bible.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
It's not fair having all of the Trinity male
Balance is better than no balance. None of the trinity is male or female, as far as I understand it. The term father and son imply inheritance not gender...but its true a lot of people think they have gender. Also that priests are male and most ministers are may have something to do with that impression. In that case it might be a good idea to balance that by thinking of the holy spirit as female. Its not supposed to be. It doesn't have boobs or anything.
 

Wrangler

Ask And You Will Receive
It's not fair having all of the Trinity male

Irrelevant. The reality is Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as he. Father (God), Son and the Spirit of God are all male.

Beyond the simple reality stated above is the role men and women play. And no, I am NOT referring to the feminist theory of false equality! While women give birth, men give life. The Creator is male. This is a biological fact.

Saviors are men. Policeman. Fireman. Minuteman military. Sure. Sure. There are exceptions. But I am not talking about exceptions but rules. And the rule is the Holy Spirit of God is male because God is male. Jesus said to refer to God or relate to our God as Father. Father is male. And a male’s Spirit is male.

It would be unfair to be any other way.
 

tigger2

Active Member
In the Old Testament (OT) it is clear that the inspired Bible writers intended holy spirit to be understood as an invisible, powerful force from God. Even many trinitarian scholars will admit that.

For example, p. 269, The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1976, admits: “In the OT the Holy Spirit means a divine power ...”

And the New Bible Dictionary, Tyndale House Publishers, 1984, pp. 1136, 1137, says:

“Spirit, Holy Spirit. OT, Heb. ruah 378 times...; NT, Gk. pneuma 379 times.” And “Divine power, where ruah is used to describe...a supernatural force....” And “At its [the Old Testament’s concept of God’s spirit] heart is the experience of a mysterious, awesome power - the mighty invisible force of the wind, the mystery of vitality, the otherly power that transforms - all ruah, all manifestations of divine energy.” And “at this early stage [pre-Christian] of understanding, God’s ruah was thought of simply as a supernatural power (under God’s authority) exerting force in some direction.”

The Encyclopedia Americana tells us:
“The doctrine of the Holy Spirit [as a person who is God] is a distinctly Christian one.... the Spirit of Jehovah [in the OT] is the active divine principle in nature. .... But it is in the New Testament [NT] that we find the bases of the doctrine of the Spirit’s personality.” And “Yet the early Church did not forthwith attain to a complete doctrine; nor was it, in fact, until after the essential divinity of Jesus had received full ecclesiastical sanction [in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea] that the personality of the Spirit was explicitly recognized, and the doctrine of the Trinity formulated.” Also, “It is better to regard the Spirit as the agency which, proceeding from the Father and the Son, dwells in the church as the witness and power of the life therein.” - v. 14, p. 326, 1957.

And Britannica agrees:
“The Hebrew word ruah (usually translated ‘spirit’) is often found in texts referring to the free and unhindered activity of God, .... There was, however, no explicit belief in a separate divine person in Biblical Judaism; in fact, the New Testament itself is not entirely clear in this regard....“The definition that the Holy Spirit was a distinct divine Person equal in substance to the Father and the Son and not subordinate to them came at the Council of Constantinople in AD 381....” - Encyclopedia Britannica Micropaedia, 1985, v. 6, p. 22.

Yes, not only did God’s people, as described in the OT, believe the holy spirit was an active force and not a person, but that same belief prevailed from the time of the NT writers up until at least 325 A. D. when the Roman Church officially accepted and began promoting the first stage in its new doctrine.

“In the N[ew] T[estament] there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity. The spirit is conceived as an IMPERSONAL POWER by which God effects his will through Christ.” - An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), 1945, p. 344.

We should be aware that every important, oft-mentioned individual in both testaments has a personal name. God is YHWH (Jehovah/Yahweh/Yehowah); God's only-begotten Son is Yehoshua/Iesus; the Holy Spirit's personal name is ?????. That's right this extremely important 'person' is never given a personal name.

We also should be aware that both the NT Greek and the OT Hebrew are languages which assign genders to its nouns and pronouns.

Gender in both Old and New Testaments is given to mature individuals according to their sex. "Man" is masculine in both Testaments; "woman" is feminine; "God" is masculine; etc.

But, as we would expect, this "impersonal power" (the Holy Spirit) is given a gender in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures befitting its meaning as a non-person.

In the Greek "Holy Spirit" is neuter and so are the pronouns which are used for it.

There is no use of a neuter gender in Hebrew, but the feminine is often used in its stead. And yes Holy Spirit" is feminine in the Hebrew text. (Neuter in Greek and feminine in Hebrew!)
 

Wrangler

Ask And You Will Receive
The Holy Spirit of God came upon Mary causing her to become pregnant. Who gets women pregnant again? Simple. Men. The Holy Spirit is male.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
6EB9A20E-5148-47BD-9757-0718F804E7CD.jpeg

(God, as humans discuss His gender)
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
The Holy Spirit of God came upon Mary causing her to become pregnant. Who gets women pregnant again? Simple. Men. The Holy Spirit is male.
The Holy Spirit is often portrayed as a dove.
I do believe the dove is feminine. At least, in my language it is a feminine noun.
I do understand your point, but speaking of archetypes, a female Holy Spirit would be complementary with a male God.
This is just a personal interpretation , of course.:)
 
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