Will this impeachment further divide the country?

Subduction Zone · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
How would you feel about an actual court trial rather than a trial in the senate?

I have one problem with a court trial. I am not looking for imprisonment for Donald Trump for his incitement to riot. I merely want him out of politics. There is no doubt that Trump was never fit to rule as President. He demonstrated that on an almost daily basis. What conviction in the Senate does is that it enables the Senate, on just a majority vote basis to ban Trump from running for office. If one wants to file a criminal case, that still can be done after conviction in the Senate, but removing the political threat to our country of Trump is more important to me:

"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment: Overview | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

tytlyf · Jan 14, 2021

esmith said:
The way I see it, without Trump in play is as follows:
Right now we have a very wide division in the country.
This is amplified by all media using the idea that "if it bleeds, it leads".
There are a very few on both side of the political spectrum that are hotheads and these people are the ones that dominate media.

The division is mostly 1 sided. Talk to your fellow republicans to calm them down.

Now to answer the OP question.
There were over 75 million voters that voted for Trump.
There is no way that there will be a 2/3 vote to convict in the Senate and Pelosie and Shummer know this.
Therefore this impeachment is seen as nothing more than a political stunt by the Democrasts futher alieanting the majority of those who voted for Trump.

The Senate will take care of it in the new congress. If you don't think they'll have 2/3's at that time, good luck.
FYI, Impeachments are ALWAYS political. You should already know that.

Subduction Zone · Jan 14, 2021

cOLTER said:
I provided the facts, you didn't respond to those facts, instead you are engaging in phycological projection.

No, you only provided facts that the investigation into Trump was less than ideal. That is all.

You did not support your claims about Democrats denying the Presidency of Trump.

And please, you are projecting all over the place. Don't accuse others of your sins.

tytlyf · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
The leftist mobs did not storm the Capitol.

And they don't beat cops into oblivion either (with Trump flags), looking for elected members of our democracy to assassinate.

Orbit · Jan 14, 2021

Lest we lose sight of what is at stake: A sitting US president and members of the Republican Party fomented an insurrection, a sedition, in which a Capitol police officer was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher. An example needs to be made of all involved.

crossfire · Jan 14, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
I have one problem with a court trial. I am not looking for imprisonment for Donald Trump for his incitement to riot. I merely want him out of politics. There is no doubt that Trump was never fit to rule as President. He demonstrated that on an almost daily basis. What conviction in the Senate does is that it enables the Senate, on just a majority vote basis to ban Trump from running for office. If one wants to file a criminal case, that still can be done after conviction in the Senate, but removing the political threat to our country of Trump is more important to me:

"Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law."

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment: Overview | Constitution Annotated | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

I want a proper and thorough investigation presided over by a judge in order to root out all of the corruption that caused this festering wound. I doubt the Senate has the stomach or the will for that.

Subduction Zone · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
I want a proper and thorough investigation presided over by a judge in order to root out all of the corruption that caused this festering wound. I doubt the Senate has the stomach or the will for that.

I am all for that too. And I agree. This is a job for professionals. The problem is that conceivably without a guilty finding in the Senate is that even if he were convicted in a civilian court he could run again.

Removing Trump from politics is a first step in healing this country.

crossfire · Jan 14, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
I am all for that too. And I agree. This is a job for professionals. The problem is that conceivably without a guilty finding in the Senate is that even if he were convicted in a civilian court he could run again.

Removing Trump from politics is a first step in healing this country.

Not if he is convicted of this:

18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

U.S. Code
Notes

prev | next
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

Source: 18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection

Ponder This · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
There has been an argument made that this impeachment will only serve to deepen the divide within the country. I'm skeptical of this argument. Rather, I believe that a failure to impeach Trump for his part in inciting the Capitol riot would deepen the divide we see. Inciting insurrection against the US Capitol should not be a partisan issue--acknowledging this can be a small step towards lessening this political divide, imo.

There really isn't time for a trial in the Senate. I'm hoping that there is an option for the Senate to refer the trial out to the courts. A Senate trial will probably deepen the political divide--it needs to be a non-partisan trial to avoid further political division, hence my wish for a court trial.

How do you see it?

Choose all that fit your view, and feel free to add another viewpoint in the comments.

The impeachment is more an expression of existing divide, then something that is a cause of divide.
The impeachment vote was partisan, with only 10 Republican representatives supporting it.

Usually a vote is a means for people to express themselves. Votes aren't usually something that causes divide. If, on the other hand, the impeachment vote had been manipulated to force an impeachment outcome, then it would probably cause a divide.

SkepticThinker · Jan 14, 2021

Ponder This said:
The impeachment is more an expression of existing divide, then something that is a cause of divide.
The impeachment vote was partisan, with only 10 Republican representatives supporting it.

Usually a vote is a means for people to express themselves. Votes aren't usually something that causes divide. If, on the other hand, the impeachment vote had been manipulated to force an impeachment outcome, then it would probably cause a divide.

That was the most bipartisan vote for impeachment the US has ever had.
So maybe some unity may result from this after all.

Subduction Zone · Jan 14, 2021

Ponder This said:
The impeachment is more an expression of existing divide, then something that is a cause of divide.
The impeachment vote was partisan, with only 10 Republican representatives supporting it.

Usually a vote is a means for people to express themselves. Votes aren't usually something that causes divide. If, on the other hand, the impeachment vote had been manipulated to force an impeachment outcome, then it would probably cause a divide.

The House tends to be far more partisan than the Senate. The members are in constant campaign mode due to their two year terms. They cannot afford to take the long term view. So ten Republicans crossing the line is very significant.

Colt · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
The leftist mobs did not storm the Capitol.

If the Leftist mobs stormed the capitol it wouldn’t be news.

Subduction Zone · Jan 14, 2021

cOLTER said:
If the Leftist mobs stormed the capitol it wouldn’t be news.

You can't be serious. But guess what? Four years ago the Democrats accepted that Trump won the election even though he lost the popular vote by 3 million voters. This time around Trump repeatedly lie and stirred up the ignorant and not too bright. His speech on January 7th was just the tip of the iceberg.

Twilight Hue · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
There has been an argument made that this impeachment will only serve to deepen the divide within the country. I'm skeptical of this argument. Rather, I believe that a failure to impeach Trump for his part in inciting the Capitol riot would deepen the divide we see. Inciting insurrection against the US Capitol should not be a partisan issue--acknowledging this can be a small step towards lessening this political divide, imo.

There really isn't time for a trial in the Senate. I'm hoping that there is an option for the Senate to refer the trial out to the courts. A Senate trial will probably deepen the political divide--it needs to be a non-partisan trial to avoid further political division, hence my wish for a court trial.

How do you see it?

Choose all that fit your view, and feel free to add another viewpoint in the comments.

Impeachment at this late stage of the game seems a waste of time and resources.

Trump is gone anyways.

Twilight Hue · Jan 14, 2021

cOLTER said:
If the Leftist mobs stormed the capitol it wouldn’t be news.

I think it would make news like it did with Seattle.

I mean anybody left or right storming the Capitol would make the news. How couldn't it?

Thing I'd be asking if the left would condone and support such a thing as they did as with Seattle among others.

crossfire · Jan 14, 2021

cOLTER said:
If the Leftist mobs stormed the capitol it wouldn’t be news.

The BLM folks want to uphold and enforce the laws against the police who murder people of color, unlike the folks who stormed the Capitol who tried to disrupt rules encoded in the Constitution.

ecco · Jan 14, 2021

sun rise said:
I have some hope that honorable conservatives will become a positive force.

Ten out of 211 as verified by yesterday's impeachment vote.

crossfire · Jan 14, 2021

Twilight Hue said:
I think it would make news like it did with Seattle.

I mean anybody left or right storming the Capitol would make the news. How couldn't it?

Thing I'd be asking if the left would condone and support such a thing as they did as with Seattle among others.

The protesters didn't break into Seattle City Hall, they were let inside by one of the City Council members when the police tear-gassed protesters after the Mayor ordered a 30 day ban on using tear gas. No one was hurt, no damage, nor any clashes with police. They were not seeking to interfere with the law, but asking for the rules to be followed.
Hundreds of protesters meet inside Seattle City Hall during 12th night of protests

Kenny · Jan 14, 2021

crossfire said:
Addicts often need some sort of intervention before they will seek treatment, if they haven't been so consumed by their addiction that they have no will left to try to heal. In your opinion, might this impeachment serve as an intervention to those who are addicted to political power?

I don't think so. The very act of impeachment is also done by those who are addicted to political power. How can we determine who is addicted to power and who is doing it out of a sincere heart?

Kenny · Jan 14, 2021

Heyo said:
Because they are under the illusion republicans are able to work bipartisan.

I think that also cuts both ways for the good. There are representatives from both sides that are able to work bipartisan.

Will this impeachment further divide the country?

The impeachment

will further the political divide within the country

will help heal the political divide within the country

a Senate trial will further the political divide

a Senate trial will not further the political divide

a court trial will further the political divide

a court trial will help heal the political divide

pass the peace pipe

there can be no peace

Veteran Member

Not Religious

Veteran Member

Not Religious

I'm a planet

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿

Veteran Member

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿

Veteran Member

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿

Face to face with my Father

Face to face with my Father