How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Ehav4Ever said:

You don't sound really happy about your faith in Jesus. Especially since the yeshu(s) plural mentioned in the Talmud all lived 100 years prior what the NT claims. Are you sure you want to say that the Jesus you beleive in was one or all of the yeshus, plural, mentioned in the Talmud?

BTW. We Jews are concerned with what you beleive Jesus to be. That is up to you to decide for yourself. It has nothing to do with Torath Mosheh Jews.

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

The Tanakh says that the Messiah would appear, be cut off, and then reappear in victory. Zechariah 9:14-15 and 12:20-14 talk about the second coming of the Messiah.

Click to expand...

Tumah said:

That's definitely one of the dumbest things I've heard this week at least. Lots of people have said that Psalm and not just the first line either.


This is fabricated completely by yourself.


There is nothing in that Psalm that says that the nations would turn to the G-d of Israel as a result of someone's suffering.

Click to expand...

Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

Click to expand...

The poor will eat and be satisfied;
those who seek the Lord will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the Lord,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the Lord
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!

Click to expand...

rosends said:

You realize that the web page you cited says the following:
"While the Bible does not specifically address the topic of stepparenting"
and then it does not bring up any Tanach based quotes until it brings up a Proverb which is about how to deal with people and isn't about parenting specifically. If you have no relevant text, then just pointing to a random webpage does not help.

The tanach doesn't equate children and step children under the law, so any conclusion you invent about the legal status is yours alone.

Click to expand...

Rival said:

I'm seeing nothing in those verses like that.

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

But it allows for children and step children to be equated under the law. That's why Joseph being the stepfather of Jesus is not inconsistent with the prophecies in Isaiah about the Messiah. Since the Messiah was to be the Everlasting Father, and thus God, it would be respectful of him to be born of a virgin.

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - New International Version
Verses 16-18 describe what happened during the crucifixion of Jesus-people were looking and cast lots for his garment.

Click to expand...

26-31 describe those turning to the God of Israel as a result of the suffering of the Messiah.

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

Zechariah 12:10 mentions that the Messiah who was pierced will be seen again by his enemies.

Click to expand...

Tumah said:

No it doesn't. That never even happened.
This is talking about during the Holocaust how the Nazis stole Jews' clothing.

Go ahead and quote the exact words that say that people are turning to G-d as a result of the Messiah's suffering.

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

The verse about the Valley of the Dry Bones is a reference to the Holocaust. https://root-source.com/blog-post/t...ey-of-the-dry-bones-the-holocaust-and-israel/

Click to expand...

rosends said:

Show me:

"But I will fill the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem with a spirit of pity and compassion; and they shall lament to Me about those who are slain, wailing over them as over a favorite son and showing bitter grief as over a first-born."

Click to expand...

Tumah said:

O...k

Click to expand...

ayin said:

So what God made on the forehead of Cain was the image of a cross on which Jesus hung. A powerful image. Again, the cross is salvation.

Click to expand...

dybmh said:

One thing, maybe, to keep in mind is that Cain brought an inferior offering. Also, the Paschal lamb was an inferior offering. (Zevachim 9a:5). If Jesus was making himself into a paschal lamb offering, that could be the connection. They're both offerings of lesser sanctity.

So, this powerful image, the sign on Cain, could be interpretted as a warning. Someone offering themselves, nailed to a cross, is not an offering of the highest sanctity and will be refused by God, just like Cain's offering.

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

Why do you think casting lots for clothing is specifically a reference to the Holocaust?

Click to expand...

Skywalker said:

One translation is they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him.

Click to expand...

Ehav4Ever said:

Click to expand...

Tumah said:

I don't think it's specifically a reference to the Holocaust. I think it's specifically a reference to David who was writing about his travails as he tended to do.

But if you're going to claim it references someone else, then so will I. During the holocaust, the Jews' clothing were stolen by the Nazis. It's not remotely inconceivable that if a Jewish person was wearing something especially nice, the Nazis would have cast lots for it.

Click to expand...

When studying the life of King David in the Bible, the parallels between he and the Savior Jesus Christ abound.

Names

Names in the Bible, specifically in the Old Testament hold a great deal of significance as they often spoke of a person’s character and nature. The name “Jesus” means “Anointed” or “Chosen.” Jesus was obviously the most chosen person to ever live as He is the Son of God and Messiah. The name David means “beloved.” When King Saul sinned by offering a sacrifice without being a priest, the prophet Samuel informed him that he would lose his Kingdom because God had “the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people..” (1 Samuel 13:14). And God made it clear to the Prophet Samuel that David was indeed Divinely chosen when He said: ” for I have provided me a king…” (1 Samuel 16:1). God sent Samuel to the home of a man named Jesse, only telling the prophet that one of his sons would be the next King of Israel, but not saying which son. In order to determine who God had selected, Samuel had to take a horn of oil and hold it over the heads of each son, and the one the oil fell on was indeed the Chosen One. So like Jesus’ name, David was literally “anointed” with oil when it fell on his head and he was selected as King over Israel.

Not What People Expected

Jesse, had eight sons and David was the youngest. Jesse clearly did not think David could have been the chosen king because when it was time to anoint his sons, he did not even bring David in the house! The world often has its own perception of what a “great leader is.” Even Samuel the Prophet had the same worldly mindset when Jesse’s sons came before him and he saw the tall, imposing son Eliab:

And it came to pass, when they were come, that [Sanmuel] looked on Eliab, and said, Surely the LORD’s anointed is before him. But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.

God is not concerned with someone who has “the look” of a leader or a faithful servant. He is concerned with the heart, where faith resides. Where love resides. The Lord is not impressed by those who appear to be for Him but someone who truly believes, is obedient and loves Him (The reader would be mindful to remember this in their own lives). David may not have had “the look” at that time, but He was a man after God’s own heart, which is one of the highest praises anyone ever received in the Bible.

Jesus too was not what people expected from the Savior of the world. He was born in a manger. His parents were not wealthy. He was meek and humble. He traveled with a group of men who were not a part of the religious leadership, but were local fishermen, laborers and a tax collector. Once Jesus started His miraculous ministry, the people expected that He would conquer the Roman empire that occupied Israel at that time and liberate His people. When Jesus performed a miracle to feed thousands of people with just five loaves of bread and two fish, the people were amazed by His power:

Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone. (John 6:14-15).

The people were repeatedly trying to make Jesus a King or doubting Him because of his modest background. The Jewish nation at that time did not understand that the Messiah was coming to save them from sin and that Jesus did not come to lead a rebellion but to die for the sins of humanity so that those who believed in Him could live eternally and be forgiven for their own sin. As with David, Jesus greatly exceeded expectations.

Finally we see both men linked prophetically. God promised David that he would have a son who would have an everlasting Kingdom. (2 Samuel 7). This was a Messianic prophecy. Some of the people during Jesus’ time who actually knew their Bible called Jesus “Thou Son of David, have mercy on us” when they saw Him, properly acknowledging Him as the prophesied Messiah who rule an eternal Kingdom. In the Book of Ezekiel, God refers to the Messiah as “my servant David” (note that King David was already dead at this time).

When the angel Gabriel came to announce to Mary that she would give birth to the Messiah, he informed her “He shall sit on the throne of His father David.” And of course by blood, Mary and Joseph were both descendants of David in the tribe of Judah. So David was a clear foreshadow of Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...