Definitely. You can't keep shaming a nation forever, especially when so many other countries have a history that includes the same atrocities or even worse. Time to move on. It's a new century. Remember the dead and let them rest.
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Why MAGA Is a Bad Thing
- Thread starter joe1776
- Start date
Audie
Veteran Member
Spouting racial garbage, you said.
On his side...its on all " sides "
like so many blacks and hispanics are not vicious racists.
And self loathing whites. And woke ones who are so phony.
I don't know what he did or didn't do, or what anyone can do. Do you?
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Audie
Veteran Member
It all depends upon the individual.
Questions are useful to explore ramifications of ideas.You, sir, are baiting. Might be fun to see what you catch.
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I think in Germany’s case it’s because the atrocities are so recent.
I remember in history class learning about all sorts of atrocities. Including that off my own country. But a lot of the time there was this disconnect. Like oh yeah, of course they did those things. 100 years ago everyone was a racist sexist douche.
So I think there’s an almost instinctive incredulous reaction. As if to say, we can’t do those things now, we’re more enlightened.
When it came to things like Hitler’s Holocaust, there was a sense of deep abiding fear. Because it seemed so “fresh in the mind.” But it was also portrayed as so outrageously evil that again there was a disconnect. Like the same “we’re more enlightened” reaction. Even though my teacher stressed that we shouldn’t have such an attitude.
I fear history may repeat itself since no one sees themselves as capable of being the bad guy.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
They started two world wars. So, it's understandable that they should be looked at with suspicion. From what I've read, they've learned their lesson. They've moved away from nationalism.
Fail to call out Nazis for being scum?
It shouldn’t be that hard in this day and age to look at a literal torch rally and be like “damn son, those are some messed up peeps. They don’t represent me.”
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Cheering for the defeat of a political enemy?
74x12
Well-Known Member
Because you can't force people to think like you even if you are right. If you do that then you're using violence/force. Instead, you have to show people in your own life what you think is best and teach people with kindness. If they listen then that's well; if not then their loss. So it's a balancing act. Most things in excess can become toxic.
Okay then why worry about it; if it's diminishing?
Yes, but I don't see what it has to do with human rights.
Well, that tends to happen when your country was firebombed to rubble, split up and occupied for decades and subjected to an intense de-Nazification program. Japan went through something similar.
joe1776
Well-Known Member
No. St. Frankenstein said he was cheering on the nationalists in Europe. So I asked if he would have been cheering in 1933.
Audie
Veteran Member
Mighty thin soup with which to feed the mighty chorus of " trump is a racist" chanters.
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Why? If a political leader of any stripe is able to overlook an honest to god Nazi torch rally, with people literally chanting “Jews will not replace us” I will take umbrage with said politician. Because at best they are being an ignorant douche. Unable to properly engage with current events like a leader should.
At worst they are implicitly endorsing out and out racism.
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joe1776
Well-Known Member
You're overthinking the issue. My insight into this issue came several years ago while watching a TV show.
A young woman explained that she had quit an American Nazi party when she realized that she had only joined because needed to feel superior to others. That realization was all it took for her. Why wouldn't it work for others?
It took three centuries for legal slavery to diminish into nothing. Was it nothing to worry about while it existed?
From the arrogant POV: If people have less value, why should they have equal rights?
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In charlottesville, the right side was full of odinists and neonazis, and they took a life that day. That is just the simple fact of the matter. What rioting and terrible behavior was being exhibited on the left hand side that day in charlottesville?
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that it's been framed by the left to make trump look bad; it has. That said, people like Richard Spencer and David Duke said that on that day, Trump showed his support for them when he spoke kindly of their men and took no action against them; so it's the white nationalists themselves that have said that this particular event had that kind of impact on them.
Now, since that event he did condemn them, but white nationalists know they aren't popular. They expect people fighting for them to publicly "condemn" them. In interviews and tweets, they have said exactly this. What they hope for, is to be left alone though, which trump has largely done. Not saying I believe that trump is supporting white nationalists, because I don't believe that, but this is why many on the left believe the way they do in thinking he is a racist.
Now, during that time antifa was doing some screwed up stuff; I stumbled upon a riot in Seattle that antifa was involved with while I was sight seeing in Seattle not long after charlottesville. The left has also been violent, now more than ever, but as far as I am aware they were mostly absent in charlottesville on that fateful day.
Audie
Veteran Member
I just said the left at cville are not angels.
I've been up all night, I'm too tired for this.
This!
I don’t know Trump’s personal views on such matters. I don’t think he’s a literal white nationalist, I think he’s merely power hungry and doesn’t care about anything else. That’s just my impression of the man, even before he became president I thought this.
But he has in the past been labelled as a so called “useful idiot” by people like Richard Spencer and Duke.
I continue to be baffled by the blood sports that is American politics
Please be patient with me, but I want to respond to this. MAGA is all about "pride because we're great." I do not believe that gay pride (at least for me), nor black pride (about which I can say nothing, being somewhat more original BandAid "flesh" coloured). Rather, I think those latter two things are much more about "not being ashamed" as opposed to "being proud."
I, and I think most gay people, are not "proud" of being gay. What I think we all recognize, however, is that as I can be nothing else, I refuse to be ashamed of it.
Frankly, I think more people should learn from that. If you're body is not the magazine optimal shape, well, so what? It's yours, and it's who you are. Why be ashamed of it? If you have Downs Syndrome, well, okay, you have it. You're doing your best, and that's got to be good enough. And doing as well as you can is not something to be ashamed of -- in fact, it might even be something to be proud of.
But MAGA, that's not about anything to do with "group pride." It's about supposing that you were once something better than everybody else (after all, not everybody can be "great"), and you regret not being so anymore.
That's just silly.
Oof... That's rough. Any particular reason, or just insomnia?