-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Question to JW on the forum
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
We only have to consult the scriptures to see that a doctrine concerning the immortality of the human soul is not Biblical....it is borrowed from Greek Platonism.
What did God tell Adam would become of him if he disobeyed God's command...?
"In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Any mention of heaven or hell there? All I see is a return to the dust from which he was created.
So are souls immortal?
Ezekiel 18:4...
"Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul who sins is the one who will die."
Souls are mortal.....they die.
Solomon wrote...
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20...
"for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust."
Humans and animals all end up the same way in death....they stop breathing and they die and return to the earth.
Solomon doesn't leave us in any doubt as to whether the dead can think, plan or actively do anything...
Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10...
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten.. . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."
There is not a single scripture that contains the words "immortal soul" because there is no such thing.
Nothing of us continues to live on after death. Life can be restored by resurrection, but that is a whole other thing.
That entails being raised from the dead.....like Jesus raised Lazarus. Where did Jesus say Lazarus was?
John 11:11-14....
"After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died".
Why would Jesus bring Lazarus back to this life only to die again, if he had gone to a better place?
If heaven contains the souls of lost loved ones who are supposedly watching what is happening to us down here and unable to stop bad things from happening to us...how could heaven be a happy place? However if all are just peacefully "sleeping" unable to think or feel or worry, don't you think that is better than being conscious in separation from the ones they love on earth?
Who told you that all good Christians go to heaven? Jesus will call the vast majority of the dead from their graves, which are right here on earth.
John 5:28-29..
"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."
Both the righteous and the unrighteous are called from the same place. Having paid sin's wages, the dead have opportunity to come back to life and resume their family relationships under the peaceful rule of God's Kingdom.
What does this mean for all faithful humans?
Revelation 21:3-4...
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
This is what the future hold for those who place their trust in God and his Kingdom with Christ at the helm, which will finally bring peace and security to the earth by getting rid of all the things that cause pain and suffering.
This is what I look forward to....and it sounds so much better than billions of people hanging around in heaven (or the other place) waiting for....what? What do people expect to do in heaven? What useful purpose does "hell" serve?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Loaded question.
Neuropteron
Active Member
Hi,
What do you mean by "the sleep of the soul doctrine" ?
If you mean what conditions are the dead in,
Eccl 9:5 states clearly: "for the linving are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all,; 3:20 "They have all come from the dust and they are all returning to the dust". what is there to get wrong ?
Cheers.
Last edited:
The comma should come after “today”, not before.
Simply put... the comma is not found in Greek Biblical texts, Greek writers (of the day) didn’t add punctuation. So it’s left up to the (different) language translators, and they usually translate in a way that favors their presupposed ideas.
We are all inclined to support our own views, unfortunately.
But in translating the Bible...it says so much on so many topics, that if what the translation copy indicates, does not agree with what the writers really meant, it will ultimately come to be revealed as a contradiction.
The Scripture you quoted in Luke, is a perfect example... Psalms 16:10 was a prophecy about Jesus, that he was going to be “in hell”, but not left there. (Peter at Acts of the Apostles 2:27 applies it to Jesus.)
So Jesus was “in hell” (the Grave / Sheol / Hades) the day he died.
The KJV translators— and many others— put the comma in the wrong place. This understanding contradicts Ps.16:10 & Acts 2:27
Is that ‘clear as mud’? I hope not. I have a hard time writing my thoughts down.
Best wishes!
No! We LOVE questions, and you asked in a polite way! Please, ask us!
Christian love, from your cousin.
Something else to consider, @Meandflower (it may already have been mentioned):
The Bible holds out the hope of a future Resurrection (standing back to life)...it talks about it in many passages (Daniel 12; John 6:40; Acts of the Apostles 24:15; etc., etc.)
But the teaching of an afterlife at death, really contradicts the teaching of the coming Resurrection. For how can a person come to life in the future, if they’re already alive in another realm somewhere?
Many beliefs find their origin in the philosophies of Plato.
The Bible holds out the hope of a future Resurrection (standing back to life)...it talks about it in many passages (Daniel 12; John 6:40; Acts of the Apostles 24:15; etc., etc.)
But the teaching of an afterlife at death, really contradicts the teaching of the coming Resurrection. For how can a person come to life in the future, if they’re already alive in another realm somewhere?
Many beliefs find their origin in the philosophies of Plato.