Are liberals more charitable than conservatives on average?

Shadow Wolf · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
Not to cause confusion though, some Jews haven't accepted Jesus Christ or Joseph Smith

I know they exist, but I have personally not met any Jews who have accepted Christ or Smith.

robocop (actually) said:
We certainly believe in giving to the poor. There should be no poor among us.

I agree there should be none. But Mormons could do better. Political campaigns do not resolve this. Lavishness and exquisiteness with appearances is not doing that. If the Mormon Church wants to judge others (and their history is rife with it, such as being racist or anti-LGBT) that's on them. But by what judgements they mete it is being measured against them. And they have some pretty high standards that they allegedly hold themselves to (by having Christ as the pinnacle of how to live one's life). The Mormon church, much like every other Christian denomination, is about the furthest thing from Christ there is.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Shadow Wolf said:
I know they exist, but I have personally not met any Jews who have accepted Christ or Smith.

I agree there should be none. But Mormons could do better. Political campaigns do not resolve this. Lavishness and exquisiteness with appearances is not doing that. If the Mormon Church wants to judge others (and their history is rife with it, such as being racist or anti-LGBT) that's on them. But by what judgements they mete it is being measured against them. And they have some pretty high standards that they allegedly hold themselves to (by having Christ as the pinnacle of how to live one's life). The Mormon church, much like every other Christian denomination, is about the furthest thing from Christ there is.

I have met many Messianiac Jews.
You're the one who probably believes in taxing churches OK? If members aren't motivated by the Temple or by seeing the Church's political muscle, that might actually lead to them being less charitable.

columbus · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
If members aren't motivated by the Temple or by seeing the Church's political muscle, that might actually lead to them being less charitable.

On the other hand, if charitable donations were to remain tax deductible and payments to support the staff and buildings and such were not, that might actually lead them to being rather more charitable.
Tom

SoyLeche · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
If members aren't motivated by the Temple or by seeing the Church's political muscle, that might actually lead to them being less charitable.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Can you elaborate?

Shad · Feb 3, 2020

I think it is more about the person rather than left or right. If someone gives to charity due to their religion that isn't a left vs right issue. That is just their religion. For some people they may have had experience such as a medical condition that becomes a cause for them. Cancer is a major example.

Providing money to charities is easy for those that have money to do so. Providing your time is more important in my view.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Never mind... LDS are very charitable and this thread doesn't change it.

They even have charity vending machines where you pay money to give to charities with no overhead.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Also, something I had a hard time with at first was that they give charity locally first and then globally. (so if you donated in Lichtenstein it would go to Lichtenstein first for instance). The reason is that they don't want to create entitlement and they can manage that better with those close by.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
You're the one who probably believes in taxing churches OK?

That is correct. Jesus said render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion, being a church alone is not reason to get a tax exemption, and clearly the law as it is has massive holes that are being exploited. Their money that actually does go directly to charity should be tax deductible, but that should require them to become non-profits and thus becoming transparent in their finances, requiring them to disclose to the public where that money is going.

robocop (actually) said:
If members aren't motivated by the Temple or by seeing the Church's political muscle, that might actually lead to them being less charitable.

If they need to see that they probably aren't very charitable to begin with. And when it comes to politics, it's a great thing if they don't get involved. People's rights get infringed upon and the innocent get harmed. Religion simply has no business in politics.

robocop (actually) said:
I have met many Messianiac Jews.

None that I'm aware of. I've heard of them and people saying they know them, but to my knowledge I have met none.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Shadow Wolf said:
That is correct. Jesus said render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion, being a church alone is not reason to get a tax exemption, and clearly the law as it is has massive holes that are being exploited. Their money that actually does go directly to charity should be tax deductible, but that should require them to become non-profits and thus becoming transparent in their finances, requiring them to disclose to the public where that money is going.

If they need to see that they probably aren't very charitable to begin with. And when it comes to politics, it's a great thing if they don't get involved. People's rights get infringed upon and the innocent get harmed. Religion simply has no business in politics.

None that I'm aware of. I've heard of them and people saying they know them, but to my knowledge I have met none.

Well, the truth is in the balance.

SoyLeche · Feb 3, 2020

Not sure if it matters to the topic, but:

The LDS people tried to live in a communal manner early on (so there would be "no poor among them"). It didn't work out all that well.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Shadow Wolf said:
That is correct. Jesus said render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, Congress shall make no laws respecting the establishment of religion, being a church alone is not reason to get a tax exemption, and clearly the law as it is has massive holes that are being exploited. Their money that actually does go directly to charity should be tax deductible, but that should require them to become non-profits and thus becoming transparent in their finances, requiring them to disclose to the public where that money is going.

If they need to see that they probably aren't very charitable to begin with. And when it comes to politics, it's a great thing if they don't get involved. People's rights get infringed upon and the innocent get harmed. Religion simply has no business in politics.

None that I'm aware of. I've heard of them and people saying they know them, but to my knowledge I have met none.

Yeah, I think that it greatly depends on whether you consider a church to be good or bad, or whether overall the law will help churches to be better or worse.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
Yeah, I think that it greatly depends on whether you consider a church to be good or bad, or whether overall the law will help churches to be better or worse.

It doesn't matter what you think about Churches, super churches and televangelists getting private jets tax-free to "spread the word" is something that must come to an end as it is clearly exploitation of the law and very often upon people's anxieties, fears, and desperations.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Shadow Wolf said:
It doesn't matter what you think about Churches, super churches and televangelists getting private jets tax-free to "spread the word" is something that must come to an end as it is clearly exploitation of the law and very often upon people's anxieties, fears, and desperations.

That's your opinion. I have my opinion. We will pass laws based on overall opinion.

Some churches are better than others. We must consider the good as well as the bad.

Shadow Wolf · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
We will pass laws based on overall opinion.

That is extremely problematic (and why America is not a Democracy). Such as, the Mormons helping to get Prop 8 passed. It took money that could have been used towards better things, and it took rights away from a population. Democracy is mob rule at best.

SoyLeche · Feb 3, 2020

I wouldn’t mind seeing churches taxed, at least on their operations. I don’t mind letting them deduct charitable activities. Note that missionary activities shouldn’t be counted as charity.

SoyLeche · Feb 3, 2020

Money towards political activity should definitely be taxed. That should apply to everyone - not just churches.

robocop (actually) · Feb 3, 2020

Shadow Wolf,

Bury the hatchet. You are just trying to pass your opinions as fact that all churches are bad. Yet the first amendment is there to help them because that's what our country is founded on.

SoyLeche · Feb 3, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
Shadow Wolf,

Bury the hatchet. You are just trying to pass your opinions as fact that all churches are bad. Yet the first amendment is there to help them because that's what our country is founded on.

I haven't been getting that message from him, but I guess I'll let him respond.

Woberts · Feb 4, 2020

robocop (actually) said:
Shadow Wolf,

Bury the hatchet. You are just trying to pass your opinions as fact that all churches are bad. Yet the first amendment is there to help them because that's what our country is founded on.

Sorry, but it is a fact. Churches provide no function valuable to society that cannot be fulfilled in a more open, transparent way by a similar secular service.

robocop (actually) · Feb 4, 2020

Woberts said:
Sorry, but it is a fact. Churches provide no function valuable to society that cannot be fulfilled in a more open, transparent way by a similar secular service.

Since we are discussing the difference between doing service as secular or as religion, this is a question about God.

I would suggest that the belief in God will help people to do what is right. We can discuss.

Are liberals more charitable than conservatives on average?

On average

The average liberal is more charitable

The average conservative is more charitable

I have no opinion either way

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