I think your response can qualify for that statement since I have said so much more that just those versus.
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Why Jesus is a God
- Thread starter syo
- Start date
I think your response can qualify for that statement since I have said so much more that just those versus.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
The Greek word logos means the plan or idea or concept. That plan was what was with God in the beginning. It wasn't another person. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning.
The Messiah didn't exist before he was born, except in the mind of God. God is a Spirit. God didn't have blood to shed for man's sin, so he made himself a fleshly body to dwell in and sacrifice for man's sin. He called the flesh his son, because he was the Father of that flesh. But it wasn't another person in the Godhead. God himself came down and wrapped himself in flesh and shed his blood for man's sin.
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TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Joh 8:40 KJV But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:47 KJV He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Joh 8:54 KJV Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Joh 8:55 KJV Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Isaiah 9:6 ...unto us a son is given. His name will be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father ...
John 14:8 show us the Father ...
John 14:9 Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one. (The Father is the eternal Spirit dwelling in the Son/flesh) It's not two different persons, but a distinction between Spirit and flesh.
John 10:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
John 10:24 ... but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
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Iymus
Active Member
But not God our Heavenly Father our only true God who was never a man or son of man.
Mat 23:9 KJV And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Joh 8:42 KJV Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 17:3 KJV And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 5:37 KJV And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 10:37 KJV If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Mat 5:17 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Num 23:19 KJV God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 12:49 KJV For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 KJV And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
To say that Jesus is God is untrue according to Trinitarianism because their God is not merely Jesus but also the Father and the Holy Spirit. According to Trinitarianism, the ONE GOD is NOT the Father or the Son or the Holy Spirit, but all three persons combined in unity. They claim that ONE God means a unity of three. So, to say that one of the three is the One God is incorrect., according to their own teaching.
Then they go on to say that this is a mystery and that God is incomprehensible. But yet they themselves have reasoned that the Trinity is true and is comprehended by what they teach.
Then they go on to say that only those who believe what they say have been enlighten to the truth. Which amounts to the truth being understood only by those who agree with what they teach. In other words, the trinity makes perfect sense to those who believe it, but is only incomprehensible to those who deny it;
Then they go on to say that this is a mystery and that God is incomprehensible. But yet they themselves have reasoned that the Trinity is true and is comprehended by what they teach.
Then they go on to say that only those who believe what they say have been enlighten to the truth. Which amounts to the truth being understood only by those who agree with what they teach. In other words, the trinity makes perfect sense to those who believe it, but is only incomprehensible to those who deny it;
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Only for the Jesuses of Paul and the author of John. The Jesus of Mark didn't become divine until his adoption by God following his baptism; and the Jesuses of Matthew and Luke didn't pre-exist the divine insemination of Mary.
And that's the gospel of Mark, which the authors of the other gospels copy, alter, add to and substract from as individually pleases them.
Ah, the resurrection ... one can no doubt believe in the resurrection as an act of faith, but the purported evidence for it is of such low quality that it's not possible to consider it something that occurred in history ─ any more than one would think the many many other resurrection stories of the ancient world were credible.
So what year did the Trinity come into existence, do you say?
Since it's clearly a gnostic perspective, why would I not?
First, being 100% you is different from being 100% OF you ─ a cup of water is 100% H2O (let's say), but it's not 100% of all the H2O. But each of Father, Jesus and Ghost, according to the Trinity doctrine, is 100% OF God. Hence the "mystery in the strict sense" / incoherence.
Second, the kenosis idea (Philippians 2:7-8) is unique to Paul's Jesus ─ in John, Jesus pre-existing in heaven was a subordinate of God, as he was on earth, but in Mark, Matthew and Luke Jesus didn't exist until his birth ─ that is, there was only his earthly life and his subsequent subordinate state eg
Matthew 20: 23 He said to them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
Matthew 24: 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”
Luke 18: 18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”
Third is the question whether God has one will or three. If Father, Jesus and Ghost are distinct persons they should have three distinct wills; yet I can think of not a single example of them arguing. ('Let this cup' and 'Why have you forsaken' are wholly non-Trinitarian subordinations.) So instead of three persons, you have only one person in three manifestations. The doctrine, of course, expressly denies this, but it doesn't give us the minute-book of meetings between the three that shows three wills in action ─ only unity, only one person with three manifestations. If you can point to a matter on which the three remain in dispute, I'd be pleased to be better informed.
That's a Christian view. No surprise if the Jewish authorities thought differently, though. The Christian allegation still occasionally met, that the Jews recognized Jesus as the messiah but perfidiously and selfishly rejected him, is untenable.
I'm glad we can agree on the two fake genealogies.
(Ouch!)
But how are we to define 'truth' / 'veracity' when we look at what's written?
That is, the statement "At basketball, X is a good three-point shooter" conforms with reality in the case of this particular X. No argument so far.
What quality does it have that makes it true? In my book, it can't be true if it doesn't accurately reflect objective reality. You appear instead to be making an argument from authority when an argument from reality should be available.
In that case there are two or more Judeans who'll be celebrating their two thousand and somethingth birthdays this year, waiting for the Son of Man to establish the Kingdom. Do you have an address for them?
"Yet, the Bible, written over 2,000 years ago is devoid of scientific error."
Aw, gimme a [rude expletive] break! The bible thinks the earth existed before the stars did, that plants existed before the sun did, that birds existed before land animals did, that the earth is flat and immovably fixed and the sun and heavenly bodies go round it, and the sky ('firmament') is a hard dome over it, to which the stars are attached such that if they come loose, they'll fall to earth; it has not the slightest conception of earth's geological time scales, or evolution, or biochemistry, or genetics (other than Genesis 30:32-43 of course), or cosmology or deep space or atomic or quantum theory ─ and so on. Nor is there any reason to expect them to ─ they had, and their writings reflect, the understandings of the particular times and places of their authors.
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LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
That is where John Calvin comes into play. Calvin believed that only those who were drawn directly by God could be saved. In other words, God would have to directly act on a person and cause him to believe certain things so that he would be saved.
If John Calvin had been one those persons whom God had directly acted upon then it follows that anyone who would disagree with what calvin taught were either not drawn by God or were not yet at the level as Calvin. he he.
If John Calvin had been one those persons whom God had directly acted upon then it follows that anyone who would disagree with what calvin taught were either not drawn by God or were not yet at the level as Calvin. he he.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
If John Calvin(Trinitarian) believed that he had been drawn of God and was therefore being taught by God, then anyone who would argue against what Calvin believed and taught would be considered someone who was not being taught of God.
Trinitarians have made the same claim against me that Calvin made against anyone who would disagree with him.
They say that if I don't believe in what is incomprehensible it is because God has not directly acted upon me so as to accept absurdity.
Trinitarians have made the same claim against me that Calvin made against anyone who would disagree with him.
They say that if I don't believe in what is incomprehensible it is because God has not directly acted upon me so as to accept absurdity.
Yes, three things (3) are mentioned but only two (2) are male, God's spirit is a neuter "it" - Numbers 11:17, 25
Modern King James version changed ' it' to him at Romans 8:16; Romans 8:26.
Just as our spirit is also a neuter 'it' and Not a person according to Ecclesiastes 12:7.
Greek grammar rules do allow for a neuter to be called as a he.
Even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a ' she ' but we know they are neuter 'its'.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
If a male human was not a male and not human who would you be.
And that male would claim a human female and be lying.
As a female I say to you male, imagine if a male did not have sex, then where are the stories you discuss as that male about a God being a male?
He would say in his thinking.
What does thinking involve, if not personal history?
When you say God, you do not claim that God is anything other than a male.
Now if God created you, as you claim, then you would not in any use of information be motivated to build a machine and react it claiming to take the power of God, would you, if you were rational?
Yet as we are all today just a baby consciousness, from sperm and an ovary, and the book writers Bible all owned that exact same historic life information, then what do you all think you are claiming.
As a living human, being a male and talking about God O the body of stone.
Stone O that ended its creative form in empty out of space...where God ended.
So how is O God in science any male....and be rational for once won't you!
Then he would say, no the atmospheric gas mass got converted in evil UFO metallic ARK radiation, and the male son was given his sacrificed life presence.
Oh, so you told yourselves what you did to self, male as a Son of a Father who was a scientist?
You mean using rational human information instead of blaming...claiming it is your self destructive rights to harm all life on Earth, because God says so...that sort of male mentality.
And that male would claim a human female and be lying.
As a female I say to you male, imagine if a male did not have sex, then where are the stories you discuss as that male about a God being a male?
He would say in his thinking.
What does thinking involve, if not personal history?
When you say God, you do not claim that God is anything other than a male.
Now if God created you, as you claim, then you would not in any use of information be motivated to build a machine and react it claiming to take the power of God, would you, if you were rational?
Yet as we are all today just a baby consciousness, from sperm and an ovary, and the book writers Bible all owned that exact same historic life information, then what do you all think you are claiming.
As a living human, being a male and talking about God O the body of stone.
Stone O that ended its creative form in empty out of space...where God ended.
So how is O God in science any male....and be rational for once won't you!
Then he would say, no the atmospheric gas mass got converted in evil UFO metallic ARK radiation, and the male son was given his sacrificed life presence.
Oh, so you told yourselves what you did to self, male as a Son of a Father who was a scientist?
You mean using rational human information instead of blaming...claiming it is your self destructive rights to harm all life on Earth, because God says so...that sort of male mentality.
I'd like to add John 10:36 to the above because Jesus answered saying that he is the Son of God.
Even the devils of Luke 4:41 know who Jesus is.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The information then says to an evil Satanic mind, oh that would mean when the radiation metal O ark mass came to Earth a human was an alien.
And believe it.
When holy fusion/fission is only active when a male does a science reaction with a machine.
Actual fact of natural advice....is not happening any other time or for any other reason.
Yet males who claim, but I think about a history of a reaction on Earth that happened, then it was stopped. What reaction means...occurs ONCE.
Then if he wants to copy what his mind psyche gets told, has to build a machine, operate the machine to force change natural fusion into fission.
And still today claims his male thinking in science is rational about God stories.
I notice Jesus as Mighty God and Not called as Almighty God.
God is a title and Not a personal name. Just as LORD/Lord is a title and Not a personal name.
The Tetragrammaton only applies to LORD God - see Psalms 110.
Lord in some lower-case letters stands for Lord Jesus.
Because God gave Jesus the Resurrection Power is why Jesus is ' Everlasting Father '. - Revelation 1:18
Father means ' life giver ' and Jesus gives life on Resurrection Day. - Acts of the Apostles 24:15
Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years.
So, the titles Mighty God and Everlasting Father are Not names, Not the Tetragrammaton YHWH applying to Jesus.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Ask a male a real question, how can you personally exist as a male before you are a male?
Males denoted in natural life by owning a penis?
If you live as a male in a naturally owned life, as a male, and a human, you do not exist before your own person as that male.
Hence you do not and cannot exist before your own self.
Therefore occult science gave that description to either an alien spirit owner of a whole body or a body of a Satan cloud image.
Yet clouds own images and also not own images.
Which should conclude, that if a cloud was given a human like image, it was because a human who studied science concepts/reactions, included self in that pre existing reaction condition.
Meaning that a cloud normally in the higher heavenly body would come down to the ground in an attack on its Creator....a male scientist.
Science never existed until it was thought about, themed, stories told, ancient themes when no life even existed studied and pondered, to own a design, a theory and a reaction to build a machine to react it.
Being pyramid.
Before that event no reactive science. For no human was living to react the condition science and conversion....which a male says in science is a step by step process of taking from the highest state, converting/transforming via destruction to gain a lower state equalling converting.
So if a male said that God was higher than a human being male...which is natural God stone O planet history, held fused and ended as stone in empty out of space.
Gases that came out of the body of stone...if stone was not held/formed then no eruption of a volcano would exist to put hot gases into empty out of space to evolve.
And a human who compares self bio form to look back in history, means that they look back to where they do not personally exist, so if they agree to own a reaction that existed in an ancient past, then where they live gets destroyed.
Just a basic simple review.
Now science wants to argue about who is the correct thinker and storyteller.
About theories.
Where some males say, microbes, evolution, then a monkey, monkey sex...human baby...human adult...human adults sex....human babies.
As their argument claiming their science theories correct.
The Satanic occult self says either an alien pre formed, pre owned being, as a metal body......to a Satan cloud....to suddenly Jesus wearing clothing of his era.
Spiritual humans say...all of Nature and our spirit came out of the eternal body, pre formed and pre owned in all separate forms...came across owning the same spiritual body, just different sound variations to that spiritual form, and became every self single diverse self presence.
So the Satanic science self....says I want to explain in science that a human owned a pre formed spirit before it evolved...as compared to naturalist evolution science.
Yet he is as a Satanist imposing the same microbial evolution status in regard to modern day theories about water mass/radiation/electrical gain of change to water and microbes....as his theme.
So he should wonder why he keeps changing his own preaching.
So when males claim in egotism, which is just a male talking, that he is allowed to talk on behalf of a belief and then claim that his belief is correct, when no one else is intelligently supported in their belief, makes you wonder how he came to be allowed to own this thinking ability and claim it 100 per cent factual...when his thinking/speaking consciousness never even existed in the forms he talks about.
Males denoted in natural life by owning a penis?
If you live as a male in a naturally owned life, as a male, and a human, you do not exist before your own person as that male.
Hence you do not and cannot exist before your own self.
Therefore occult science gave that description to either an alien spirit owner of a whole body or a body of a Satan cloud image.
Yet clouds own images and also not own images.
Which should conclude, that if a cloud was given a human like image, it was because a human who studied science concepts/reactions, included self in that pre existing reaction condition.
Meaning that a cloud normally in the higher heavenly body would come down to the ground in an attack on its Creator....a male scientist.
Science never existed until it was thought about, themed, stories told, ancient themes when no life even existed studied and pondered, to own a design, a theory and a reaction to build a machine to react it.
Being pyramid.
Before that event no reactive science. For no human was living to react the condition science and conversion....which a male says in science is a step by step process of taking from the highest state, converting/transforming via destruction to gain a lower state equalling converting.
So if a male said that God was higher than a human being male...which is natural God stone O planet history, held fused and ended as stone in empty out of space.
Gases that came out of the body of stone...if stone was not held/formed then no eruption of a volcano would exist to put hot gases into empty out of space to evolve.
And a human who compares self bio form to look back in history, means that they look back to where they do not personally exist, so if they agree to own a reaction that existed in an ancient past, then where they live gets destroyed.
Just a basic simple review.
Now science wants to argue about who is the correct thinker and storyteller.
About theories.
Where some males say, microbes, evolution, then a monkey, monkey sex...human baby...human adult...human adults sex....human babies.
As their argument claiming their science theories correct.
The Satanic occult self says either an alien pre formed, pre owned being, as a metal body......to a Satan cloud....to suddenly Jesus wearing clothing of his era.
Spiritual humans say...all of Nature and our spirit came out of the eternal body, pre formed and pre owned in all separate forms...came across owning the same spiritual body, just different sound variations to that spiritual form, and became every self single diverse self presence.
So the Satanic science self....says I want to explain in science that a human owned a pre formed spirit before it evolved...as compared to naturalist evolution science.
Yet he is as a Satanist imposing the same microbial evolution status in regard to modern day theories about water mass/radiation/electrical gain of change to water and microbes....as his theme.
So he should wonder why he keeps changing his own preaching.
So when males claim in egotism, which is just a male talking, that he is allowed to talk on behalf of a belief and then claim that his belief is correct, when no one else is intelligently supported in their belief, makes you wonder how he came to be allowed to own this thinking ability and claim it 100 per cent factual...when his thinking/speaking consciousness never even existed in the forms he talks about.
I find Jesus is a creation:
At Revelation 3:14 pre-human Jesus is the beginning of the creation by God.
In other words, Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not ' before ' the beginning.
Only God was ' before ' the beginning according to Psalms 90:2 being from everlasting. No starting point.
So, pre-human heavenly Jesus was Not ' before ' the beginning as his God was ' before ' the beginning of creation.
Plus, God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) is Not male but a neuter "IT" - Numbers 11:17, 25; Romans 8:16, 26.
The newer King James changed 'it' to him but that does Not make a neuter a person.
Greek grammar rules allow for a neuter to be called as a he although remaining a neuter 'it'.
For example: even in English we speak of a car or a ship as a 'she' although they remain a neuter 'it'.
Our spirit is also a neuter 'it' according to Ecclesiastes 12:7.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
When a male says a Sun, as its body is in space, as that Sun, no human exists.
When a male says a planet in space as a body in space, no human exists.
When a male says an atmosphere was formed and evolved and cooled, no human exists....the state science and the spirit of science.
For when a male who lives in a life, owner of a bio life body that a male says a human in a human body is human DNA owner for human information, as a human.
Before that human the closest form he says is a monkey.....yet no monkey is a human and no human is a monkey.
A human has to be a human to talk as that human to own human consciousness to talk and discuss information.
Science, the state of discusses information when their consciousness and their bio life form does not exist.
As the status of why science is a liar, for who gave you human permission to do that form of thinking, when your consciousness nor life exists with the life of any of the bodies you discuss?
Rationality says when doing this form of thinking, you then are applying human reasoning for having self removed from the position highest state existing in creation, being consciousness itself and manipulator of all other bodies, by choice and then personal action.
How is that not a realized evolved modern day teaching to the human self today?
Therefore if you want to claim a human is an it or a neuter, when science says if I name a condition and give it a TITLE...then that title is a human....not a neuter.
Now if a scientist says, within the human form information that I determine is a neuter exists...then you would have to give it a medical term...for it would not own a science term, for that form would not exist without a human existing doing and applying all thinking and applications of describing another human.
Now humans who do not honour life or honour anyone else and use and infer self singular superiority and do so in a group cult mentality was a human teaching about evil minded human Destroyers, as the fact of human experience and human history.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Human history.
In the past human historians said, human genetics was attacked and sacrificed and the theme was titled Jesus Christ......being past human life, and therefore death.
Which would mean it occurred in the past, was real, was lived, occurred and the sacrifice of human life in Genetics real, and Genetic natural life removed.
As a life sacrificed, life died on Earth before natural time.
And it was claimed due to Sun time.....a nuclear condition, for Earth does not own metallic Sun radiation mass. It only ever owned a cold gas irradiated heated gas itself......gases from the body of stone. Gases not from a body of a Sun.
How that story was claimed and taught.
Therefore it was history.
Science of the nuclear practices, was stopped. So the Earth atmospheric condition began to evolve for the held machine Pyramid Temple constant was no longer applied. But a sporadic UFO mass still arrived due to star fall irradiation/loss of cold star group protection.
As a different form of historical life genetic attack...by condition how much extra radiation came to Earth.
Therefore some of the genetical information from the Jesus Christ incident was allowed to re evolve...whilst individual life attack, being sporadic irradiation fall out did not allow other Genetic history to re evolve from mutative attack.
Why some males today claim that in their past history their DNA male life ownership was living in that time era and had healed and returned. Whereas an amount of DNA Genetics in that original attack would not have returned nor healed...due to UFO mass radiation still arriving.
For a male to apply a teaching in science that said the reason why my natural Genetics using mainly water/oxygen and microbial mass was harmed....was because Earth had to increase its cloud reactive mass. As the cooling mechanism for Earth being mass irradiated.
How the scientific evidence was discussed as the relativity in the science review as to why a life was DNA defective.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
God sent his son.
So first of all God has to be a male...to own a title son.
The God self has to be male, the son also a male, was sent to save us all.
In what form?
Natural history before any human even existed was owned as a state evolution of Earth gases in the state out of space, as a science statement.
For you cannot claim and I was the first form a microbe and claim it is a male or else you would be lying. As a bio form in water.
Seeing our life is nearly a water form as a bio human being life.
Therefore as we are all living, are all thinking, are all human, and use our brains and our minds to tell stories, then we listen to each others story and then think about it...and claim who is most rational by reason.
My story says....males as an original spiritual male human form, much higher and healthier, more spiritual than what any of us today, as a large male Earth population invented science.
Had to be living to tell stories, to think themes, to comply to a science theme design, build the design own and operate a machine for the state science.
For natural is natural and we can tell stories about it, as that natural form...without argument...for there is no argument.
Then the males who did a machine reaction who by the way claim and still do I know it all...when they never did....for since when do you speak on behalf of the huge natural powers and bodies that exist in their natural masses? You would really be an egotist to think you do.
They exist as huge powerful bodies of energy mass.
You are just in comparison a puny human bio life form.
That MASS presence is why you die...as that bio life.
Therefore males prove that egotism is their own problem...to claim that speaking is speaking on behalf of what they are not their own person...the body MASS.
Therefore a male knowingly as an adult and a male, who is in fact a Father even if he has sex or not...he owns the body to be enabled to be that Father. invented science.
He changed the water mass which is AI bible recorded, a memory that is recorded and heard speaking from that large male original science group, named as GOD.
Today they are named as God for half of their living spirit, water mass oxygen and microbes got removed out of their owned human body...taken up and evaporated into cloud mass reaction....how they got sacrificed and recorded and became a virtual living angelic spiritual being.
True and real story.
The human being life however remained on the ground was irradiated converted for loss of water, ensured that they did....and it is exactly how the story is told.
They then became a human encoded loss of self of half of the original male life, as a true and real human history......whether science of the non occult reasoning want to believe, is not your realistic circumstance, as what many would claim is Atheism. Science of the occult phenomena prove otherwise.
Therefore a male will argue and argue and argue about his own memory God status as that angel and life sacrificed, for he knows it really happened.
So when in modern day life after the ICE AGE...he re applied the same science, he got re life sacrificed again and updated that male image in the cloud mass...just as has been proven.