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'Jesus is God', Scripturally, [variable and non'variable verses(in meaning

MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
74x12 said:
So Jesus is "a god" rather than "the God". Basically really pretty similar to what modern Jehovah's witnesses say. In this kind of a debate you have to simplify a bit. We all should already know they believe Jesus is some kind of divinity; but not the same Divine nature as the Father.

So that brings us full circle again. Either you have two Gods (a greater and a lesser) or one God. I believe in only one God the Father. Jesus the Son is God the Father manifest. The vast majority of their arguments against this can be explained by the duality of Christ's nature. Fully God and fully man.
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That is your wrong opinion.
I do not see any bible verse so it must come from your own opinion.
Everybody is entitled to their wrong opinions.
But to read from the scriptures for the truth that would be something.
upload_2019-10-19_21-29-20.jpeg



John 17:1-3 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.


images


Who is the only true God according to Jesus Christ?
The Father is the only true God

Why don't you believe what Jesus Christ said?

What is Jesus according to himself?
He was sent by the only true God who is the Father.

Why don't you believe what Jesus Christ said?

Is it important to know who the only true God is and who was sent by the only true God?
Yes it is important because Jesus Christ said this knowledge is eternal life.

Why don't you believe what Jesus Christ said?

upload_2019-10-19_21-38-17.jpeg
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
Your cut and paste is supplementary to what I just told you brother. There is no need to be so aversive of what one person says as if your default position is to just oppose.

Read up on the theology of Arius. Maybe read a book by Rowan Williams. Or even someone like Hanson. You will understand.

Anyway, thats the end of it. Cheers.
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LightofTruth said:
Jesus has a God. He is not the God who is his God. He simply represents the God who is his God. That makes one God and one Lord. Jesus' God has highly exalted Jesus to a position as God(Lord) above all angels and men.
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Thomas called Jesus 'my Lord and [the] God' ho these actually has an article

In any case the name(singular) of the father, son and holy spirit is consistent with the Trinity

as is Isaiah 9 and 10 the only two places with 'the mighty God' El Gibor, the promised child to be born and the God of Jacob

but really... Jesus said tear down this temple and in 3 days I will raise it up (in John 2). How would a merely dead non existent Jesus raise himself if he weren't in some sense God himself

but really... Jesus said i will send 'the holy spirit' how would someone other than God send the Holy Spirit By the way both Jesus and the Holy spirit are called the paraclete so clearly both persons, paraclete being a person in greek culture
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
Yep. You didnt understand what Arianism was. I tried to make you understand. I didnt say I agree with them or any of such thing. You have misunderstood the council of Nicea, you have misunderstood history. I was only trying to give you the correct information and now you are giving some argument about an idea of a character in this history.

I think youre just looking for an argument with someone so please find someone or a topic you like to debate about and please do it. Go ahead.

Peace.
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I think what you were saying that Jesus is divine in Arianism is obvious. Yet you're making it seem like some new revelation.

But to not explain that fact carefully so everyone knows the difference between just being divine and being actually the most High God is obfuscation. Don't you want clarity?

Because the argument here is between those who say Jesus is not God and those who say He is God. And by "God" I don't just mean divine but the most High God Himself.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
Jesus has a God. He is not the God who is his God. He simply represents the God who is his God. That makes one God and one Lord. Jesus' God has highly exalted Jesus to a position as God(Lord) above all angels and men.
Click to expand...
So God isn't a Lord? If so; then you have two. You have two gods and two lords. I only have one.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
74x12 said:
I think what you were saying that Jesus is divine in Arianism is obvious. Yet you're making it seem like some new revelation.

But to not explain that fact carefully so everyone knows the difference between just being divine and being actually the most High God is obfuscation. Don't you want clarity?

Because the argument here is between those who say Jesus is not God and those who say He is God. And by "God" I don't just mean divine but the most High God Himself.
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No.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
giphy.gif


That is your wrong opinion.
I do not see any bible verse so it must come from your own opinion.
Everybody is entitled to their wrong opinions.
But to read from the scriptures for the truth that would be something.
View attachment 33664


John 17:1-3 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
After Jesus had spoken these words, he looked up to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.


images


Who is the only true God according to Jesus Christ?
The Father is the only true God

Why don't you believe what Jesus Christ said?

What is Jesus according to himself?
He was sent by the only true God who is the Father.

Why don't you believe what Jesus Christ said?

Is it important to know who the only true God is and who was sent by the only true God?
Yes it is important because Jesus Christ said this knowledge is eternal life.

Why don't you believe what Jesus Christ said?

View attachment 33665
Click to expand...
I believe everything Jesus said. You on the other hand pick and choose and what you do read you don't understand.

So as I said originally; you will usually resort to scriptures that can be explained by referring to the duality of Christ's nature. Both human and God.
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
74x12 said:
I believe everything Jesus said. You on the other hand pick and choose and what you do read you don't understand.

So as I said originally; you will usually resort to scriptures that can be explained by referring to the duality of Christ's nature. Both human and God.
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Hand pick???
You ignored what Jesus said who is he and who is the true God is.

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Now hand pick yourself a verse that Jesus said he is God.
Go on....unless you can't.
Because there is none.

Now I pity you because the knowledge you possess will not bring you to eternal life.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
74x12 said:
I think what you were saying that Jesus is divine in Arianism is obvious. Yet you're making it seem like some new revelation.

But to not explain that fact carefully so everyone knows the difference between just being divine and being actually the most High God is obfuscation. Don't you want clarity?

Because the argument here is between those who say Jesus is not God and those who say He is God. And by "God" I don't just mean divine but the most High God Himself.
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What people don't realize is that because it is the Spirit of the Lord, who is Jesus, Jesus is just one of His manifestations.

Other names for Jesus are

The Lord
Lord of lords, [which makes sense to Matthew 22:37-46
Almighty Lord[2 Corinthians 6:18
Highest God

They will never answer this,
1 Corinthians 8:6[One Lord, Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 6:18[Lord Almighty
Matthew 22:37[Lord your God

Why? Because they are dishonest. Ultimately they know that they can't refute this, so they obfuscate.



Who knows what religion they really follow.
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Using the Biblical story book as evidence to support a person's take on faith is ridiculous!
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Desert Snake said:
They will never answer this,
2 Corinthians 6:18[Lord Almighty
Why? Because they are dishonest. Ultimately they know that they can't refute this, so they obfuscate.
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2 Corinthians 6:16-18 Good News Translation (GNT)
How can God's temple come to terms with pagan idols? For we are the temple of the living God! As God himself has said,

“I will make my home with my people
and live among them;
I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.”
And so the Lord says,
“You must leave them
and separate yourselves from them.
Have nothing to do with what is unclean,
and I will accept you.
I will be your father,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”

giphy.gif


As God himself has said,

Did Jesus said that? No, he didn't
God himself said that.

Why didn't you show the whole message of the verse?
I know why....
Because they are dishonest. Ultimately they know that they can't refute this, so they obfuscate
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
MJFlores said:
2 Corinthians 6:16-18 Good News Translation (GNT)
How can God's temple come to terms with pagan idols? For we are the temple of the living God! As God himself has said,

“I will make my home with my people
and live among them;
I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.”
And so the Lord says,
“You must leave them
and separate yourselves from them.
Have nothing to do with what is unclean,
and I will accept you.
I will be your father,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”



As God himself has said,

Did Jesus said that? No, he didn't
God himself said that.

Why didn't you show the whole message of the verse?
I know why....
Because they are dishonest. Ultimately they know that they can't refute this, so they obfuscate
Click to expand...
That's because the Lord, is God.

1 Corinthians 8:6[only one Lord, Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 6:16-18[Lord Almighty, who is God.
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Desert Snake said:
They will never answer this,

Matthew 22:37[Lord your God

Why? Because they are dishonest. Ultimately they know that they can't refute this, so they obfuscate.
Click to expand...
Desert Snake said:
That's because the Lord, is God.

1 Corinthians 8:6[only one Lord, Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 6:16-18[Lord Almighty, who is God.
Click to expand...

When Jesus is called LORD, you mean he became GOD???

giphy.gif


What is the meaning of LORD?

Definition of LORD
LORD | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Any one can be a Lord. You can be a Lord.
Be a crime boss and you are a Crime Lord
Specialize in drugs, then you are a Drug Lord
Being a Lord does not mean you become a god.
The meaning of a Lord is not equivalent to being a God.

NOW How did Jesus became a Lord???
THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS


Acts 2:36 Good News Translation (GNT)
“All the people of Israel, then, are to know for sure that this Jesus, whom you crucified, is the one that God has made Lord and Messiah!”

What did the Bible record???
Jesus was made LORD because of God
Without God, Jesus will not be Lord
God is the giver of the title LORD
Jesus is the receiver of the title LORD
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
When Jesus is called LORD, you mean he became GOD???

giphy.gif


What is the meaning of LORD?

Definition of LORD
LORD | definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Any one can be a Lord. You can be a Lord.
Be a crime boss and you are a Crime Lord
Specialize in drugs, then you are a Drug Lord
Being a Lord does not mean you become a god.
The meaning of a Lord is not equivalent to being a God.

NOW How did Jesus became a Lord???
THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS


Acts 2:36 Good News Translation (GNT)
“All the people of Israel, then, are to know for sure that this Jesus, whom you crucified, is the one that God has made Lord and Messiah!”

What did the Bible record???
Jesus was made LORD because of God
Without God, Jesus will not be Lord
God is the giver of the title LORD
Jesus is the receiver of the title LORD
Click to expand...

Statements with no evidence to support them.:rolleyes:
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
JJ50 said:
Statements with no evidence to support them.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


I think I explained it thoroughly.
What evidence are you talking about?
Physical evidence?
This is not a court of law
hence, evidences are impossible to be presented.
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
giphy.gif


I think I explained it thoroughly.
What evidence are you talking about?
Physical evidence?
This is not a court of law
hence, evidences are impossible to be presented.
Click to expand...

All you have explained is your take on faith. If a god really existed surely it would make its presence clear to all in a way which couldn't be denied. The Bible is no sort of evidence at all.
 
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