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'Jesus is God', Scripturally, [variable and non'variable verses(in meaning

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Verses can't always be discerned as to a 'direct meaning', when read without other verses. Thusly, verse comparison is actually, necessary, to derive a meaning, that doesn't contradict something else noted in the Bible.
There are verses with variable meaning, when read without other verse comparison, like

'God hath made Jesus'...
Now, does this mean,
• God is a separate Being, who made a separate Being
• Jesus is God, in Spirit form, thusly incarnated Himself
• there is a binitarian nature in which Jesus is a separate aspect of God

Then, there are verses that when read together, there is no variable meaning, such as
1 Corinthians 8:6
[There is only one Lord, Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 6:18
[Lord Almighty
Matthew 22:37
[Lord your God

Thusly, there is no way to read these verses, and not derive, that Jesus is the Lord, there is only one Lord, He is the Almighty, and it's He who is the God, of the Believers.

Hence, Jesus, is the 'same God', as who the Believers consider, their God, who is the Lord.
•••

You will note that if one says, 'j-sua isn't g-d', then actually, they are saying, neither is the Tetragrammaton, going by the Bible.
This then means that verses that might be a variable interpretation, must conform, to the fact that Jesus is called the Lord, who is God.
 
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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
giphy.gif


 

74x12

Well-Known Member
Verses can't always be discerned as to a 'direct meaning', when read without other verses. Thusly, verse comparison is actually, necessary, to derive a meaning, that doesn't contradict something else noted in the Bible.
There are verses with variable meaning, when read without other verse comparison, like

'God hath made Jesus'...
Now, does this mean,
• God is a separate Being, who made a separate Being
• Jesus is God, in Spirit form, thusly incarnated Himself
• there is a binitarian nature in which Jesus is a separate aspect of God

Then, there are verses that when read together, there is no variable meaning, such as
1 Corinthians 8:6
[There is only one Lord, Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 6:18
[Lord Almighty
Matthew 22:37
[Lord your God

Thusly, there is no way to read these verses, and not derive, that Jesus is the Lord, there is only one Lord, He is the Almighty, and it's He who is the God, of the Believers.

Hence, Jesus, is the 'same God', as who the Believers consider, their God, who is the Lord.
•••

You will note that if one says, 'j-sua isn't g-d', then actually, they are saying, neither is the Tetragrammaton, going by the Bible.
This then means that verses that might be a variable interpretation, must conform, to the fact that Jesus is called the Lord, who is God.
Possibly 99% of the arguments that Arianists come up with in order to claim Jesus isn't God can be explained by referring to the duality of Christ's nature. Fully man and fully God.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Possibly 99% of the arguments that Arianists come up with in order to claim Jesus isn't God can be explained by referring to the duality of Christ's nature. Fully man and fully God.

Arianist? Where are they?
Why don't you check your bible and find out for yourself?

source.gif


Or you just want to follow a doctrine which was invented in 325 AD by 300 bishops and a pagan emperor?
Would you rely the truth and your salvation on these dead people who will by the way go to hell?

We should believe what Jesus Christ said and he said this John 8:40
Is he fully God, did Jesus said he was fully God?
Read your bible, don't listen to any man because men deceives
And when you are deceived, you are a goner.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Possibly 99% of the arguments that Arianists come up with in order to claim Jesus isn't God can be explained by referring to the duality of Christ's nature. Fully man and fully God.

You have not understood Arianism brother.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Arianist? Where are they?
Why don't you check your bible and find out for yourself?

source.gif


Or you just want to follow a doctrine which was invented in 325 AD by 300 bishops and a pagan emperor?
Would you rely the truth and your salvation on these dead people who will by the way go to hell?

We should believe what Jesus Christ said and he said this John 8:40
Is he fully God, did Jesus said he was fully God?
Read your bible, don't listen to any man because men deceives
And when you are deceived, you are a goner.

No doctrine was invented in 325.
 

calm

Active Member
So..i will find these phrases in the Bible? Where?

God is the Lord of Lords(Deuteronomy 10:17)=Jesus is the Lord of Lords(Revelation 19:16)
There can't be two different persons claiming this title.

God is the First (the origin) and the Last (the goal) (Isaiah 44:6)=Jesus is the First (the origin) and the Last (the goal) (Revelation 1:17)
There cannot be two different persons claiming this title.

God is the husband (Isaiah 54:5)=Jesus is the husband (2 Corinthians 11:2)
Two different persons cannot marry the same woman.

God is the only Saviour(Isaiah 43:11)=Jesus is the Saviour(Luke 2:11)
God is the only rock (Isaiah 44:8; Psalm 18:31)=Jesus is the rock(1 Corinthians 10:4)
God will be the pierced(Zechariah 12:10)=Jesus is the pierced(crucifixion)
For God the way is prepared (Isaiah 40:3)=For Jesus the way is prepared (Mark 1:3 ; Matthew 3:3)
Jesus and YHUH are God (Psalm 45:7-8) =Jesus and YHUH are God (Hebrews 1:8-9)
God created the world (Genesis 1:1)=All things were created by Jesus, through Jesus and for Jesus(Romans 11:36) (Colossians 1:16-17)
Jesus is God and the father of eternity (Isaiah 9:6)
Jesus is omnipotent (Revelation 1:8) (Matthew 28:18)
Jesus is the true God (Romans 9:5) (1 John 5:20)
Thomas calls Jesus God (John 20:28)
Jesus is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15)
God became flesh (human) and Jesus is this flesh (John 1:1+14) (1 Timothy 3:16)
Jesus accepts prayers (John 14:13-14)
Jesus and the father are one (John 10:30)
Who has seen Jesus, has seen God (John 14:9)
Whoever believes in Jesus believes in God (John 12:44)
 

calm

Active Member
Or you just want to follow a doctrine which was invented in 325 AD by 300 bishops and a pagan emperor?
Would you rely the truth and your salvation on these dead people who will by the way go to hell?
The rumor that the Trinity was invented in the 4th century by the church is a lie. There are many ancient sources that prove that the first Christians who lived before the 4th century already believed that Jesus is God.
(many of these Christians were therefore persecuted, mocked and executed)
For example:

Justin Martyr:
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr "Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts." (Dialogue with Trypho, ch, 36)
    • 150 AD Justin Martyr "Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Christ] is witnessed to by Him who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ." - Dialogue with Trypho, ch. 63.
    • "For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).
Tertullian (160-215). :

"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation . . . [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).


170 AD Tatian the Syrian:

    • 170 AD Tatian the Syrian "We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man" (Address to the Greeks 21).

Origen (185-254).:

"If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority . . . There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
"For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)

"Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification . . . " (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).

177 AD Athenagoras:
    • 177 AD Athenagoras "The Son of God is the Word of the Father in thought and actuality. By him and through him all things were made, the Father and the Son being one. Since the Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son by the unity and power of the Spirit, the Mind and Word of the Father is the Son of God. And if, in your exceedingly great wisdom, it occurs to you to inquire what is meant by `the Son,' I will tell you briefly: He is the first- begotten of the Father, not as having been produced, for from the beginning God had the Word in himself, God being eternal mind and eternally rational, but as coming forth to be the model and energizing force of all material things" (Plea for the Christians 10:2-4).

"He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things." (Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks. A.D. 200).

"For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God's plan." (Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians. A.D. 110).
 
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MJFlores

Well-Known Member
No doctrine was invented in 325.

The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. This ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom. Wikipedia
Start date: 325 AD
Documents and statements: Original Nicene Creed, 20 canons, and a synodal epistle
Location: Nicaea
Next council: Council of Serdica and the ecumenical First Council of Constantinople
Attendance: 318
President: Hosius of Corduba

 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
The rumor that the Trinity was invented in the 4th century by the church is a lie. There are many ancient sources that prove that the first Christians who lived before the 4th century already believed that Jesus is God.

giphy.gif


Justin Martyr:

upload_2019-10-18_22-28-56.jpeg


Tertullian (160-215). :
upload_2019-10-18_22-29-7.jpeg

170 AD Tatian the Syrian:
upload_2019-10-18_22-29-10.jpeg

Origen (185-254).:
upload_2019-10-18_22-29-14.jpeg

177 AD Athenagoras:
upload_2019-10-18_22-29-17.jpeg

Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Greeks. A.D. 200
upload_2019-10-18_22-29-21.jpeg

(Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Ephesians. A.D. 110
upload_2019-10-18_22-29-29.jpeg


 

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firedragon

Veteran Member
The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in the Bithynian city of Nicaea by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. This ecumenical council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom. Wikipedia
Start date: 325 AD
Documents and statements: Original Nicene Creed, 20 canons, and a synodal epistle
Location: Nicaea
Next council: Council of Serdica and the ecumenical First Council of Constantinople
Attendance: 318
President: Hosius of Corduba


Yep. Well known.

But you said they invented a doctrine in 325 which is absolutely wrong. So I was only correcting your error. And I think you have corrected yourself now with your comment.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
So..i will find these phrases in the Bible? Where?
Does it matter? You can't find the word "Theology" in there either but we use it to describe essential teachings that are to be understood in the scriptures. In other words there is a difference between knowledge and understanding. Even the scriptures themselves differentiate between the two. So, knowledge alone is just data. It needs to be understood in order to be useful. This is why we study and explain the scriptures. Knowledge alone is unfruitful. When it is mixed with understanding it can produce wisdom.
Arianist? Where are they?
Why don't you check your bible and find out for yourself?



Or you just want to follow a doctrine which was invented in 325 AD by 300 bishops and a pagan emperor?
Would you rely the truth and your salvation on these dead people who will by the way go to hell?

We should believe what Jesus Christ said and he said this John 8:40
Is he fully God, did Jesus said he was fully God?
Read your bible, don't listen to any man because men deceives
And when you are deceived, you are a goner.
I don't follow the trinity doctrine. I'm more oneness or modalist actually. Which provably predates the council of Nicaea.

We can easily prove that Jesus is God just by studying the old Testemant. Just by comparing the things that are said about Jesus in the new Testament with the things said about God in the old Testament. For example Jesus calls Himself the "good Shepherd" and we know who is the real Good Shepherd from Psalm 23. It is God. And that's just one among many similar comparisons that can be made. If people have eyes to see and ears to here there is no denying that Jesus is God.
You have not understood Arianism brother.
Well, that's neither here nor there ... I only know the way they argue against the divinity of Christ and that's what I'm talking about.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Yep. Well known.

But you said they invented a doctrine in 325 which is absolutely wrong. So I was only correcting your error. And I think you have corrected yourself now with your comment.

giphy.gif


Yes, they invented the doctrine that Jesus is God.
The Bible says Jesus is not God


 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Arianist? Where are they?
Why don't you check your bible and find out for yourself?

source.gif


Or you just want to follow a doctrine which was invented in 325 AD by 300 bishops and a pagan emperor?
Would you rely the truth and your salvation on these dead people who will by the way go to hell?

We should believe what Jesus Christ said and he said this John 8:40
Is he fully God, did Jesus said he was fully God?
Read your bible, don't listen to any man because men deceives
And when you are deceived, you are a goner.

I believe you read the Bible and simply do not understand what it says otherwise you would n't be in such error.
 
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