You'd Think That Those Who Ran Public Schools Would Be Brighter Than This

Cooky · Oct 18, 2019

Saint Frankenstein said:
They liked Jesus' social teachings but dumped everything else (that's a common opinion among non-Christians, so it's nothing special). They didn't believe in a Trinity and believed that God is more distant but can be understood more through reason alone. No, they weren't Christians and took pains to separate religion and state as different spheres.

Not sure why you're grouping the founding fathers together as a whole - calling them "they", as if they all held the same views.

The FACT is, that the people in the founding years consisted mostly of:

Anglicans (George Washington)
Presbyterian (John Witherspoon)
Congregationalists (John Adams)
Society of Friends -Quakers-
Lutheran
Dutch reformed
Roman Catholic (Charles Carroll)

...There were no Muslims or Buudhists or Hindus or what have you. Christianity will always be the most prevelant religion of the founding fathers of the U.S., whether anyone likes it or not.

Saint Frankenstein · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
Not sure why you're grouping the founding fathers together as a whole - calling them "they", as if they all held the same views.

The FACT is, that the people in the founding years consisted mostly of:

Anglicans (George Washington)

Presbyterian (John Witherspoon)

Congregationalists (John Adams)

Society of Friends -Quakers-

Lutheran

Dutch reformed

Roman Catholic (Charles Carrol)

Yes, there were Christians, too. Regardless, my point is that America was not founded as a Christian nation and they did not privilege Christianity above other religions.

Cooky · Oct 18, 2019

Saint Frankenstein said:
Yes, there were Christians, too. Regardless, my point is that America was not founded as a Christian nation and they did not privilege Christianity above other religions.

I'll agree with you on that.

Subduction Zone · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
Hope this helps:
Christian deism - Wikipedia

...There's no religion more American than Christianity. We're just going to have to accept that fact.

In other words no magic Jesus. And I have to disagree with you on saying there is no religion more American than Christianity. You have to ignore all of the bad works done in the name of Christianity when you make that claim. I would say that currently you would be hard pressed to find a more American religion than Pastafarianism.

Cooky · Oct 18, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
In other words no magic Jesus. .

Nope. No magic Jesus.

You can still follow Jesus and his ways without believing in his divinity or supernatural aspects.

...You can even call yourself a Christian Deist.

Subduction Zone said:
And I have to disagree with you on saying there is no religion more American than Christianity. You have to ignore all of the bad works done in the name of Christianity when you make that claim.

Not sure why you're making that a prerequisite. Of course nobody has to ignore any bad or evil in order for it to be considered "American"... I have no idea what gave you that impression.

Subduction Zone said:
I would say that currently you would be hard pressed to find a more American religion than Pastafarianism.

Most people don't even know what Pastafarianism is. It's cute, but very unpopular.

Subduction Zone · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
Nope. No magic Jesus.

You can still follow Jesus and his ways without believing in his divinity or supernatural aspects.

...You can even call yourself a Christian Deist.

Not sure why you're making that a prerequisite. Of course nobody has to ignore any bad or evil in order for it to be considered "American"... I have no idea what gave you that impression.

You are guilty of the sin of cherry picking You only pay attention to those traits that support your claim and ignore those that go against it.

Most people don't even know what Pastafarianism is. It's cute, but very unpopular.

Then we need to get the word out.

Jose Fly · Oct 18, 2019

Moz said:
Other than the message that a person can't run away from God's plans, that's about it.
That's a pretty good lesson in itself.

But it's not the role of the government to teach that lesson.

Skwim · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
I think the biblical writers were trying to portray the immense strength and power of God in their writings. Which I believe is true.

But it's not presented as a parable. Taking the story of Noah from Genesis 5:28 right through to Genesis 8:21 it reads as a narrative. No sense of myth, allegory, fable, or parable whatsoever.

It's only a minority of fundamentalist Christians who take the stories literally.

Don't know about fundamentalists in particular, but it looks like about 24% of the people in America believe the story to be true.

.

Cooky · Oct 18, 2019

Skwim said:
But it's not presented as a parable. Taking the story of Noah from Genesis 5:28 right through to Genesis 8:21 it reads as a narrative. No sense of myth, allegory, fable, or parable whatsoever.

It doesn't matter if it reads as a narrative, that doesn't mean it's supposed to be taken literally. It doesn't need to be a parable to be a representation of a larger concept.

Subduction Zone said:
Don't know about fundamentalists in particular, but it looks like about 47% of the people in America believe the story to be true.

.

No offense, but you seem to struggle with charts. I think this is the 2nd time I've corrected you in charts.

The 47% represents those who think it's "not to be taken literally". Those who "take it literally" are only 24%.

Subduction Zone · Oct 18, 2019

Skwim said:
But it's not presented as a parable. Taking the story of Noah from Genesis 5:28 right through to Genesis 8:21 it reads as a narrative. No sense of myth, allegory, fable, or parable whatsoever.

Don't know about fundamentalists in particular, but it looks like about 47% of the people in America believe the story to be true.

.

I think that you meant 24%.

Skwim · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
It doesn't matter if it reads as a narrative, that doesn't mean it's supposed to be taken literally. It doesn't need to be a parable to be a representation of a larger concept.

So if there's no indication this is something other than a factual event what's convincing you it isn't, other than the damage it does to the veracity of the Bible of course?

No offense, but you seem to struggle with charts. I think this is the 2nd time I've corrected you in charts.

And I thank you for catching my mistake.

I'll change it.

.

Skwim · Oct 18, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
I think that you meant 24%.

I did, I did. And thanks for catching it.

.

.

Cooky · Oct 18, 2019

Skwim said:
So if there's no indication this is something other than a factual event what's convincing you it isn't, other than the damage it does to the veracity of the Bible of course?
.

Well, it's just like with the flood... It seems a little too far fetched.

...It's not like I need to believe it for anything, you know?

Subduction Zone · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
Well, it's just like with the flood... It seems a little too far fetched.

...It's not like I need to believe it for anything, you know?

You really don't. But some Christians insist that one must believe all of the myths of the Bible to be a "Christian". Their form of Christianity is definitely not very American.

Skwim · Oct 18, 2019

Landon Caeli said:
Well, it's just like with the flood... It seems a little too far fetched.
..It's not like I need to believe it for anything, you know?

Kind of like the Resurrection and all, but I get it. You're needs dictate the truth, so the Resurrection gets a bye. Interesting.

.

Cooky · Oct 18, 2019

Skwim said:
Kind of like the Resurrection and all, but I get it. You're needs dictate the truth, so the Resurrection gets a bye. Interesting.

.

Yeah, without the resurrection, I can't go to heaven, thus I would be very upset, because I told my mom on her death bed that I would meet her there.

...Though, at this point, I'm probably more in line with hell than heaven.

Moz · Oct 19, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
No one has done that. And Christians did not heed your advice when they created the Jesus myth.

And where did I say that I was morally superior to all of humanity before me? I am merely more moral than the writers of the Bible. But that is a very low standard.

All your true morals are from my Father. Your empathetic, sympathetic, feelings based self righteous atheist drivel is just what you think are morals.

Phaedrus · Oct 19, 2019

Nakosis said:
Christian privilege.
Folks just never consider anything could be wrong with their values.

Well, you know, it's those theistic blinders that give them godly tunnel vision.

Subduction Zone · Oct 19, 2019

Moz said:
All your true morals are from my Father. Your empathetic, sympathetic, feelings based self righteous atheist drivel is just what you think are morals.

I am afraid that that is nonsense. My morals are far superior to Bible morals. Have you even read it? If so you have not understood it.

You'd Think That Those Who Ran Public Schools Would Be Brighter Than This

Cooky

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