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We came ...we saw ...he died

sooda

Veteran Member
So you excuse war crimes? It's okay to torture and murder unarmed people who are begging for their lives?

To be fair, I didn't celebrate the killing of Bin Laden or Saddam's execution, either. So you do have a point there.

Saddam was executed for exactly what the RAF did in 1920 with Churchill's blessing.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
So you excuse war crimes? It's okay to torture and murder unarmed people who are begging for their lives?

To be fair, I didn't celebrate the killing of Bin Laden or Saddam's execution, either. So you do have a point there.

Easy with the gratuitous accusations, please. How did you make such a jump, anyway?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Absolutely the Italians did a good thing.. and Idris was a good king.. The Libyan Constitution was enlightened. Ghaddafi was a fool.. ignorant, flamboyant and insecure.. like TRUMP.
But now the problem is to restore Libyan prosperity...and really...we are trying so hard...spending billions of euros....
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It would be great if Westerners didn't interfere in any country of the ME
Perhaps. But that is a bit of an unicorn. International relations will happen in some way or another.

I don't defend the actions of Churchill, or even of Obama in Syria, but we can hardly find Trump any improvement.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
Easy with the gratuitous accusations, please. How did you make such a jump, anyway?
Because I wasn't sure if you were trying to excuse it or not here:
"Meanwhile, Gadhaffi was both mad and a dictator, and was eventually the victim of a well-earned blood vengeance from his own people."

If not, my apologies and disregard it.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
But now the problem is to restore Libyan prosperity...and really...we are trying so hard...spending billions of euros....

Libya still has lots of oil to sell and a very small population. The issue is leadership.. Revolutions often turn out badly.. sorry to say.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Perhaps. But that is a bit of an unicorn. International relations will happen in some way or another.

I don't defend the actions of Churchill, or even of Obama in Syria, but we can hardly find Trump any improvement.

LOLOL.. What do you think Obama did in Syria? Syria was a failed state 5 years before Obama took office.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Because I wasn't sure if you were trying to excuse it or not here:
"Meanwhile, Gadhaffi was both mad and a dictator, and was eventually the victim of a well-earned blood vengeance from his own people."

If not, my apologies and disregard it.
Next time try to ask before shooting, ok?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
LOLOL.. What do you think Obama did in Syria? Syria was a failed state 5 years before Obama took office.
Most states are failed in some way or another, and I can hardly blame Obama (or any POTUS, really) for that. Syria is definitely not Obama's fault.

I do however blame Obama for a policy that was too militaristic for anyone's sake. But not under any expectations that Syria would be necessarily better off were it not for that policy.

There are no easy solutions for such situations, regardless of what politicians often feel encouraged to say.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Libya still has lots of oil to sell and a very small population. The issue is leadership.. Revolutions often turn out badly.. sorry to say.
Libya is still in war...with migrants coming from SubSahara...terrorists selling drugs, weapons
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Libya is still in war...with migrants coming from SubSahara...terrorists selling drugs, weapons

Of course,, The country erupted in violence and Ghaddafi had just bought 2 Billion dollars worth of weapons from the Russians. Revolutions often go terribly wrong.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Of course,, The country erupted in violence and Ghaddafi had just bought 2 Billion dollars worth of weapons from the Russians. Revolutions often go terribly wrong.
Do you have any advice to give to the Italian people?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ghaddafi immediately closed Wheelus and Tobruk and drove Libyan oil into the dirt.

Apparently, the agreement to shut down Wheelus was made before Gaddafi took power.

Wheelus Air Base - Wikipedia

The strategic value of the facility had declined with the development of nuclear missiles that had effectively replaced many bomber bases to the point where Wheelus served primarily as a tactical fighter training facility through the 1960s.

In September 1969 King Idris I was overthrown by a group of military officers centred on Muammar Gaddafi. Before the revolution, the US and Libya had already reached agreement on US withdrawal from Wheelus. This proceeded according to plan, and the facility was turned over to the new Libyan authorities on 11 June 1970.[4]

I couldn't find anything on any US bases in Tobruk.
 
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