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Is premarital sex moral or immoral?

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
You calling me, a straight person, a Sodomite? That's another one of your lies.
It's a lie that you accuse other's of it. Jesus did say for what "judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged....what measure ye met, it shall be measured to you again." Sodomite.
John 7:24: “Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.”
You fail at this because you assume people are sodomites for disagreeing with you and your interpretation of the Bible.
Matthew 18:15-17: “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you.
You have failed in this as your accusations are very public, and not at all between the two of you.
Matthew 7:17-20: “Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit…..every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.”
And the world is recognizing your fruit as a judgemental hypocrite who is pointing out the beams in the eyes of others but unconcerned about the mote in your own eye.
And how funny, you can't quote Jesus on saying it's OK to judge, but only someone who came after him, those who Jesus warned would come after him and claim to speak in his name but do not be lead astray for they are false prophets. But, it is to be expected of a Sodomite who is eager to "judge back" the judgement measured against his city?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
It's a lie that you accuse other's of it. Jesus did say for what "judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged....what measure ye met, it shall be measured to you again." Sodomite.

You fail at this because you assume people are sodomites for disagreeing with you and your interpretation of the Bible.

You have failed in this as your accusations are very public, and not at all between the two of you.

And the world is recognizing your fruit as a judgemental hypocrite who is pointing out the beams in the eyes of others but unconcerned about the mote in your own eye.
And how funny, you can't quote Jesus on saying it's OK to judge, but only someone who came after him, those who Jesus warned would come after him and claim to speak in his name but do not be lead astray for they are false prophets. But, it is to be expected of a Sodomite who is eager to "judge back" the judgement measured against his city?

Dry up with your nonsense.
 
Hey everyone. I wanted to debate about whether or not premarital sex is moral or immoral. I will take the Catholic side since I am Catholic. We believe that premarital sex is immoral. We believe that it is gravely sinful which means that if it is done with full consent of the will and knowledge of the gravity of the sin, it becomes a mortal sin which can send you to Hell.

Anyway, we Catholics believe that sexual intercourse has two purposes: procreation and the union of the spouses which have to be one man and one woman as we don't believe in same-sex marriages. Premarital sex is often violating the first purpose as it is often contracepted sex. Premarital sex always violates the second purpose since the two having sex with each other are not married.

We believe that the Bible speaks out against premarital sex but I will not quote all of the citations from the Bible about it at this time.

So, what do you think? Do you think premarital sex is moral or immoral? Why or why not?

Last week I went to see Benny and the Jets, and during the intermission I was having a quiet smoke with my man next to some young women who were talking about men. A bit cliche I thought, but I listened anyway, and overheard one girl nod to her friends and say "oh yeah, he was my booty call for quite a while."

Now I'm a Brit living in Pennsylvania and I didn't know what a Booty Call was. I had to ask Andres and he said its means a "Come ****" call. Apparently its the norm now for American women to call up men as if they were free prostitutes and say "come **** me now" and these men go. The idea blew my mind and I still can't wrap my head around how that is good for anyone. Where's the expectation? What about letting the sexual tension build over time? Where's the love? The mystery? How does he get to feel special that shes giving him the right to court her? How can he think of her as special and want to get to know her? Wow. A booty call is so transactional.

No wonder Americans are having problems in the bedroom. Im no prude and I love sex. Im fine with the morality of sex before marriage, but I think here in America some people have taken a beautiful thing to the whorehouse and they're very jaded. I think we should go back to courtly love where a man had to earn his way into the life and bed of his paramour.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Now I'm a Brit living in Pennsylvania and I didn't know what a Booty Call was. I had to ask Andres and he said its means a "Come ****" call. Apparently its the norm now for American women to call up men as if they were free prostitutes and say "come **** me now" and these men go. The idea blew my mind and I still can't wrap my head around how that is good for anyone. Where's the expectation? What about letting the sexual tension build over time? Where's the love? The mystery? How does he get to feel special that shes giving him the right to court her? How can he think of her as special and want to get to know her? Wow. A booty call is so transactional.
Because sometimes it's fun and nice just to ****. And, also, guys call over gals just as well. And if he doesn't feel special getting sex without the relationship stuff, he's a very odd fellow.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Either the mother or father could have been born with one, and pass it on to their child. And sex isn't the only way STIs can be transmitted.

Exactly what she said. Health care workers are even at a high risk of infection from accidental pokes and accidentally coming into contact with infected blood. It is immoral and illegal for them to have any sexual contact with patients.

And enough aren't doing it to promote abstinence only, and when abstinence only is promoted they are still having sex.


You are officially irritating me. I have NEVER promoted 'abstinence only' for school courses. I have simply stated one scientific fact; if everybody came to their permanent partner virgin, and stayed monogamous to that partner, STD's would be eliminated in one generation.

That is absolutely true. Whether humans are willing to do that? That's a whole 'nuther discussion, and has nothing whatsoever to do with that stated fact. It doesn't matter how ELSE STD's might be transmitted...sexual contact is by far the most prevalent one. Yes, mothers can give it to their children, but when that happens the disease is recognized pretty quickly. Yes, one can get certain STD's through blood contact (AIDS being the most scarey) but in order to get it in those ways (did I see someone ACTUALLY say that one could get an STD from a toilet seat?) one must first be dealing with someone who got that disease...from sexual contact.

Like I said; smallpox is eradicated. Nobody is vaccinated against smallpox any more. Why? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST outside some stupid laboratory. It doesn't matter how many different ways one can get an STD if it has been so completely defeated that nobody HAS one to transmit.

BTW, if everybody came virgin to the 'wedding,' and stayed monogamous afterward, it wouldn't matter if one of the partners did have an STD. It wouldn't go any further. It's too easy to guard against transmission through other means.


Actually with robots it is the same exact logical processing that is required for "adding long lists of numbers."

Uh Huh. I bet you are one of those people who don't believe that dyslexia is real, and that the only reason kids with dyslexia 'can't' read is because they are "too stupid," or "don't try hard enough," aren't you?

I have news for you. Dyscalculia is real. I have it. It is a condition that, like dyslexic kids, messes with the ability to manipulate numbers. Look it up, if you have the time and are interested.

What happens to ME is that I have problems adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing...arithmetic. Oddly enough, I don't have problems with algebra or any higher form of math, as long as these things are presented to me as equations, with letters and symbols rather than numbers. Those who have 'examined' me figure that it is because I turn equations into a language....and I"m pretty good at language.

However, once numbers are plugged into those equations, I'm lost. The greatest thing that ever happened to me was the electronic calculator, and I got one of the very first ones when they were hundreds of dollars. I've been dependent upon them ever since.
So, it's not the 'logical process' that eludes me...or anybody else with dyscalculia. It's the numbers themselves. They....how can I put this...don't stand still. Someone called it 'dyslexia with numbers,' and that's pretty much true.

But dyslexic kids can be the smartest kids around, understanding what is written just fine. Sometimes they understand more than the kids who can read easily. It's the method of communication that messes them up. There are ways around that....and there are ways around being dyscalculaic, too.
What that means is that I'm no worse at math than you....if I have a calculator in my hand and am allowed to use it.


In fact, were you aware that some people believe that Thomas Edison may have been dyscalculaic? He was neither stupid nor unable to function.

And the point still stands - personal anecdotal evidence of "I did it, so why can't others" isn't a valid reason on how to expect other people to behave.

Of course it is...unless one thinks of oneself as somehow being superior to everybody else. But that doesn't matter.

Two things: it is obvious that if people would DO this for one generation, STD's would go away...nothing to do with morals, just medical fact.
It is also obvious that this ain't gonna happen, because the idea of waiting until a permanent partner shows up, and then being 'true' to that partner, makes some selfish people cringe.

Because they believe that their personal pleasure trumps all other considerations.

And I don't get that. Exactly how much time does one spend having sex, anyway? Seems to me that even the most, er, active person spends a considerable minority of his/her time actually engaging in sexual intercourse. So the REST of life is at least as, if not more, important. You know...talking, playing, working, interacting with, your chosen 'other,' etc.

I can tell you this much; no human accomplishment ever made was done while having sex. As much fun as sex is (and it is...) if you have a scientific or philosophical 'eureka' moment while doing so, you aren't doing it right.

This assumes that most people having premarital sex are self centered and hedonists. That would be a very massive chunk of the population.

Yep. But don't use 'premarital' in terms of legal contracts. I'm talking about choosing a permanent partner, which doesn't necessarily require legal marriage.

Nope. I took precautions and got to know partners some before doing anything.

Good for you...and no condescension or sarcasm is meant by that. However, as you have argued before, no precaution is 100% reliable.

But being celibate before finding a permanent partner, and being monogamous after, pretty much is. Even if one has the lousy luck of getting an STD in some other way, it stops with you.

Again; this isn't about morals or ethics. It's about...how disease is spread.

The reason nobody under fifty has a smallpox vaccination scar is because smallpox doesn't exist. The reason it doesn't exist is because EVERYBODY in the world co-operated in the vaccination policy until it was gone, and nobody spread it, or could catch it. So now...nobody has to be vaccinated against it.

Since there don't seem to be any vaccinations against AID's, or gonorrhea, or syphilis, or any of the other nasties, except Hepatitis and herpes, I can see only one way to get rid of them.
 
Because sometimes it's fun and nice just to ****. And, also, guys call over gals just as well. And if he doesn't feel special getting sex without the relationship stuff, he's a very odd fellow.

The best sex is between people who share their minds and their feelings as well as their bodies, and I'd rather just bring myself off than bed someone who is not available to me emotionally and mentally too. Men and women don't learn this without being in a great relationship for a long time.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
if everybody came to their permanent partner virgin, and stayed monogamous to that partner, STD's would be eliminated in one generation.
That's not a fact because sex isn't the only way to transmit NUMEROUS STIs. This is a biological fact of nature. I even point out that health care providers themselves are at a high risk of contracting STIs as a part of their job. Sometimes people accidentally come into contact with infected blood. Your claim has no basis in fact.
And what if their partner dies? Are they to never move on?

Again; this isn't about morals or ethics. It's about...how disease is spread.
It is entirely about morals. Even virgins can contract an STI, and overall nothing is 100% safe. Driving a car can get you killed. Staying home can get you seriously injured or killed. Walking down the road exposes you to numerous potential accidents. Even trying new foods might expose you to an unknown allergy. With sex, taking simple and easy precautions, such as using condoms and getting to know potential partners, TREMENDOUSLY reduces the rate of STIs.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The best sex is between people who share their minds and their feelings as well as their bodies, and I'd rather just bring myself off than bed someone who is not available to me emotionally and mentally too. Men and women don't learn this without being in a great relationship for a long time.
They do. You just can't look at them through judgement-tinted goggles.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Ok Shadow. I'm 48 but I have an open mind. What is it I'm not seeing or appreciating about the Booty call?
Mostly that sometimes people like to have "no strings attached" sex, friends with benefits, or whatever term. It's not something that should be judged negatively just because people are enjoying sex just for the sake of enjoying sex. And it helps to acknowledge that late teens and young adults are just as capable of knowing and learning things that older people swear up and down they just aren't old enough to know any better.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Because sometimes it's fun and nice just to ****. And, also, guys call over gals just as well. And if he doesn't feel special getting sex without the relationship stuff, he's a very odd fellow.

No unrepentant, Christ-denying fornicators will enter into heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Rev. 21:8, etc.).
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
That's not a fact because sex isn't the only way to transmit NUMEROUS STIs. This is a biological fact of nature. I even point out that health care providers themselves are at a high risk of contracting STIs as a part of their job. Sometimes people accidentally come into contact with infected blood. Your claim has no basis in fact.
And what if their partner dies? Are they to never move on?


It is entirely about morals. Even virgins can contract an STI, and overall nothing is 100% safe. Driving a car can get you killed. Staying home can get you seriously injured or killed. Walking down the road exposes you to numerous potential accidents. Even trying new foods might expose you to an unknown allergy. With sex, taking simple and easy precautions, such as using condoms and getting to know potential partners, TREMENDOUSLY reduces the rate of STIs.

From here:

Correct usage of latex condoms greatly reduces, but does not completely eliminate, the risk of catching or spreading STDs. The most reliable way to avoid infection is to not have anal, vaginal, or oral sex.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It's my schooling and professional background. If masturbation caused harm, I would know it. If having fantasies were inherently dangerous, I would know it. I've had people's health and well being in my hands. I'm not trying to say I know it all, but these are very basic 100 and 200 level psychology course topics. Professionally, even with clients in poor health there are no instructions for them to stop masturbating (unless they are too unhealthy for sexual activity). Fantasies being bad is not considered dangerous and unhealthy, but just a sign you're a living human being. We all have dreams about what we don't have. That's why we call them "dreams" and "fantasies."
Dreams and fantasies of doing real world things can help you achieve them.

Violent video games are often things you shouldn't do.

Masturbation is not so much like a dream or fantasy as it is like stealing the pleasure of having a family and thus making the family more strained as a unit of government necessary to the world.

Just because you get married, you still want to masturbate. It still short circuits it. It still scars the relationship. And I stand by that it messes with integrity of mind.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Just because you get married, you still want to masturbate. It still short circuits it. It still scars the relationship. And I stand by that it messes with integrity of mind.
Science and medicine do not agree. You can believe what you want, but your beliefs are not facts.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
From here:

Correct usage of latex condoms greatly reduces, but does not completely eliminate, the risk of catching or spreading STDs. The most reliable way to avoid infection is to not have anal, vaginal, or oral sex.
Wearing you seat belt reduces the risk of injury and death in a car wreck, but the only way to not get hurt or die in a car is to never get in a car. Life inherently has risks and nothing is 100% safe. If you work in health care, you might still get an STI from an accidental poke from an infected needle.
 
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