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What REALLY is the point?!

So if even if it's fictional, as long as it's comforting or leads to a better life we should believe it? But I want to know truth and have trustworthy knowledge even if it's not comforting but unfortunately absolute truth or trustworthiness doesn't seem to exist.

You can have trustworthy knowledge on many things, just not 'the meaning of life', 'the purpose of existence', etc.

These you need to determine for yourself as they are not questions of absolute truth. Value systems and worldviews require everyone to accept premises that are not objectively true (or at least not demonstrably so).
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
What's a mystery school?

It’s a generic name for a school which teaches contemplation and meditation.

They have come in various flavours, not just Abrahamic or Hindu. Pythagoras ran one for example, and used trigonometry to blow minds.
 

Pudding

Well-Known Member
IDK what to believe and the search for any type of truth and knowledge seems pointless, idk, I'm rambling.
What's the point in searching for truth or knowledge?
Reasons can be:
- Some people need to satisfy their curiosity.
- Some people feeling bored, they have to find something to do.
- Some people are interested to do so.
- Some people need knowledge to solve their problems.
- A lot of times, a lot of different kinds of knowledges can be useful.

It doesn't seem as though we can know anything for sure or with any type of certainty
Do you know for sure that "we cannot know anything for sure"?

and even if we were to get knowledge, it's possible that we'll interpret it wrongly.
Therefor? What's your point?

What's the point in asking for evidence in favor of or against a God's existence?
It can be because some people want to know whether such evidence exists or not.

It seems as though one could argue both for and against one given the evidence available.
Which religion's God are you referring to in your statement?

One could argue for and against a specific God given the "weak/strong evidence available for/against a specific God"? For example...? What's your point?
 
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Jos

Well-Known Member
You've got to be interested in it, or you hit a low fence and turn back. The reply doesn't interest you which is fine.
The reply did interest me, I read it and I didn't fully understand it so I asked you to explain it. If I wasn't interested I wouldn't have done that.
God was different from what I thought. It would be evil to try to get me to believe in God by proving God exists though
Why is it evil to prove God's existence? Isn't that what the Gods of certain religions want? And why is it evil for a person to say that they have a stronger connection to God than you do?
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
It’s a generic name for a school which teaches contemplation and meditation.

They have come in various flavours, not just Abrahamic or Hindu. Pythagoras ran one for example, and used trigonometry to blow minds.
Ok but why do you think I'd make a good candidate for such a school?
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
Do you know for sure that "we cannot know anything for sure"?
No I'm not sure that's why I said it seems that we can't know rather than I definitely know for sure that we can't know anything with absolute certainty.
Therefor? What's your point?
My point is that humans are fallible and our brain and senses lie to us so even if we were to have knowledge how can we trust if we've interpreted the knowledge correctly.
It can be because some people want to know whether such evidence exists or not.
I know that but again I asked because it seems an argument can be made both for and against a God's existence, so it ultimately seems unknowable.
Which religion's God are you referring to in your statement?

One could argue for and against a specific God given the "weak/strong evidence available for/against a specific God"? For example...? What's your point?
Any and all Gods.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
The 'Point' is, there may, indeed, be a point, or purpose, or expectation for our existence.

2 possibilities:
1. Godless universe. No purpose/point. No soul. We are a random accident of naturalism.
2. A Supreme Being, or unseen spiritual dimension has Created the universe, and us.. for a Reason.

A BELIEF in #1 leaves us in an amoral, meaningless universe, which seems to conflict with an internal 'sense' within most humans, for all of recorded history.
A BELIEF in #2 gnaws at us, with questions of destiny & purpose from this unseen dimension.

The stakes are HUGE. We're talking about the possible ETERNAL DESTINY of our soul, or the basic essence of who and what we are.

So it is not surprising at all, that humans would grapple, debate, agonize over, seek, wonder, and pursue the Truth for our existence. It's not just a parlor game, but has eternal, significant consequence to our very existence.

What would you give to know the truth about your eternal soul? What would you give to know God, and be reconciled to Him?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Well I looked it over but I still couldn't understand it. Can you please explain it?

If you had an experience that wasn't consistent with what you expect to experience, wouldn't you find a point in finding out why?

Some have what is often referred to as a spontaneous mystical experience, an experience outside of perceived reality. While one isn't necessarily actively seeking truth or knowledge prior to the experience, it's the experience itself that leads one to seek and understand of what they experienced.
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
2 possibilities:
1. Godless universe. No purpose/point. No soul. We are a random accident of naturalism.
2. A Supreme Being, or unseen spiritual dimension has Created the universe, and us.. for a Reason.
That's a bit of a false dichotomy. There are other options as well. The real dichotomy would be a created universe vs an uncreated universe.
A BELIEF in #1 leaves us in an amoral, meaningless universe, which seems to conflict with an internal 'sense' within most humans, for all of recorded history.
Well as I said you've put forth a false dichotomy but for the sake of argument just because humans have certain intuitions about the world that doesn't make them true. Humans intuitively believed that the earth was flat or that the sun orbited the earth, but that conflicts with what is known about the world. So just because humans have certain intuitions that doesn't mean that they're correct.
The stakes are HUGE. We're talking about the possible ETERNAL DESTINY of our soul, or the basic essence of who and what we are.
Or so religions claim.
So it is not surprising at all, that humans would grapple, debate, agonize over, seek, wonder, and pursue the Truth for our existence. It's not just a parlor game, but has eternal, significant consequence to our very existence.
Again that's what religions claim, can you demonstrate any that there are eternal consequences?
What would you give to know the truth about your eternal soul? What would you give to know God, and be reconciled to Him?
Evidence.
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
If you had an experience that wasn't consistent with what you expect to experience, wouldn't you find a point in finding out why?
Yeah.
Some have what is often referred to as a spontaneous mystical experience, an experience outside of perceived reality. While one isn't necessarily actively seeking truth or knowledge prior to the experience, it's the experience itself that leads one to seek and understand of what they experienced.
Hmmm OK. I think I understand.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Why is it evil to prove God's existence?
God is invisible, and if I prove to you that God exists it makes me your superior. The next thing you'll be asking me what God thinks and what God wants you to do and where do we all come from and who should in charge except the one who can prove God exists. This is true even where we don't have the term God. In the past a fast way to notoriety was to claim to be able to make predictions by the stars or by cutting livers or looking at bones. This is no different. You can't see God, and you can't prove that God exists, and it follows that you can't speak for God to others. This has political ramifications, maybe not so obvious in our times but should still be obvious. The term for this kind of political power based on magical intuition is divination. Proving God exists is the basis of a new form of divination. Look at how easily people are manipulated. They buy books about stories of people going to the afterlife and returning. Consider the power that Alan Greenspan had when he was head of the Fed. Now didn't a lot of people envy his power? Yes, they did. Consider how some people are bankrupted by mediums. There's a weakness in humanity that is easily exploited, but God is invisible, intangible. That is a good thing. You and I are equal authorities on God.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
OK have you found absolute certainty in other areas of life?
I've read Synergetics... it says the stars don't blow out from each other. Instead Universe gets more complicated in between.

I don't think even God can know everything there is to know in infinite Universe. Infinity in time and space and everything is cyclic.
 
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