Fear of homosexuality

Audie said:

We dont doubt that you do believe such things,
but do you believe too that your choice to select
one particular religion and select your chosen
interpretation thereof constitutes good and sufficient
reason for you to ever attempt to impose
your chosen ideas of right and wrong on others?

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Yes.

1. Most of us have ideas on right and wrong.
2. Religion informs many of us in our views on what is right and what is wrong.
3. Most of us feel that some of what we feel is right, should be required by law and some of what we feel is wrong should be prohibited by law. (Unless you're 100% Libertarian or Anarchist or something pretty radical).
4. Most of us believe that some of what we believe is right or wrong should not be legislated one way or the other. (Unless you're a right or left wing extremist dictator/fascist type or religious extremist who believes all specifics of your faith should be imposed on the masses.)
5. Most of our laws, made by people from varying worldviews, are based on (3).
6. The trick is for the individual to decide if his or her view on what is right rises to the level of wanting laws to control behavior. Is it necessary for our personal and societal welfare that others are required to behave as I think they should? In some cases, clearly yes, and in others, clearly no. In other cases, it's fuzzy. But I only get my way if a majority agree.
7. We have a U.S. Constitution to act as a check on the process, at times to contradict the majority and protect certain rights.

sojourner said:

Precisely! First off, God never says homosexuality is a sin. That’s a misinterpretation of several unrelated passages. Second, if it’s “normal” for human beings to act upon their sexual preferences, then for some to be arbitrarily denied that is to treat that group as less than human.

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Then you must blame the Christian God and not me, I only say what it is written (yes i have read the bible)

Amanaki said:

Then you must blame the Christian God and not me, I only say what it is written (yes i have read the bible)

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No, I blame the “interpreter” of the text. If you can show me where the text says that God condemns homosexuality, I’ll concede.

I submit that the biblical authors were unaware of homosexuality as an orientation, and so could not have written about it. They wrote about actions, not orientation.
And they wrote about acts being sinful because they were unaware of the orientation.

sojourner said:

No, I blame the “interpreter” of the text. If you can show me where the text says that God condemns homosexuality, I’ll concede.

I submit that the biblical authors were unaware of homosexuality as an orientation, and so could not have written about it. They wrote about actions, not orientation.
And they wrote about acts being sinful because they were unaware of the orientation.

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Romans 1:26-27
For this reason [viz. idolatry], God gave them up to passions of dishonor; for even their females exchanged the natural use for that which is contrary to nature, and likewise also the males, having left the natural use of the female, were inflamed by their lust for one another, males with males, committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.

Only a few verse from the bible that talk about the subject of homosexuality

Wasp said:

Then why is it that the attitudes of those living in certain areas, such as some parts of the middle east where being gay is prohibited, are more often as described in the OP? Are there more gay people there? Unlikely - they've been taught to think so.

Just as elsewhere kids are taught to think being gay is okay. If every kid in the world was told being gay is absolutely not okay and you deserve to die for it - guaranteed, there would be a whole lot more "gay people" in the world, don't you think?

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Not at all. I was gay when it was illegal in my nation to be gay, and when being hated for it by the majority was the norm. The police could quite easily get away with beating up gay people, and they did. Yet, there were the same number of gay people then as there are now (between 2% and 3%), in this same place where homosexuality -- and even marriage between two persons of the same sex -- are perfectly legal and even celebrated by many.

In places where homosexuality is dangerous, there are still homosexuals, but they tend to remain more hidden...until such time as they feel free to express themselves. In Toronto, Canada, where I live, there are very many gay Muslims from all over the world, many gay Africans, many gay Asians. But always in or around that same number -- between 2 and 3 percent of the population.

Wasp said:

Why are some of those who believe homosexuality is a sin so afraid of it?

Homosexuality in itself isn't a sin according to - as far as I am aware - any religion, so if we just think about homosexuality in general as a topic or homosexuals as a topic, why does it terrify some people so much?

It isn't the biggest sin, the most harmful sin, the most likely sin... It's one among others.

Where does the extreme fear come from and how could it be reduced among people who belive homosexuality is a sin, if we exclude the idea that the sin could be removed from the list or the people could become less religious on that issue.

It is possible to consider it a sin and even condemn it without feeling extreme fear, discomfort, frustration or anger when the topic is approached.

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I'm not sure how "extreme fear" is being expressed, although I am sure that there would be some as there would be some who fear religion or almost any other subject

Amanaki said:

They can do what they like, it is not up to me to say what they can and can not do. all i wrote here was what I think. So if others want to have sex all the time, that's up to them

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Well sure. But in your view, if a woman is using the pill for medical needs and also has sex with her husband, does that constitute having sex for mere pleasure and therefore wrong or sinful?

SomeRandom said:

Well sure. But in your view, if a woman is using the pill for medical needs and also has sex with her husband, does that constitute having sex for mere pleasure and therefore wrong or sinful?

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As i said, what others do is none of my business. Sex in itself is not sinful as long it is between man and woman who are a couple. But it is for making kids.

Amanaki said:

As i said, what others do is none of my business. Sex in itself is not sinful as long it is between man and woman who are a couple. But it is for making kids.

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It is for developing social bonds, technically.

Wasp said:

Why are some of those who believe homosexuality is a sin so afraid of it?

Homosexuality in itself isn't a sin according to - as far as I am aware - any religion, so if we just think about homosexuality in general as a topic or homosexuals as a topic, why does it terrify some people so much?

It isn't the biggest sin, the most harmful sin, the most likely sin... It's one among others.

Where does the extreme fear come from and how could it be reduced among people who belive homosexuality is a sin, if we exclude the idea that the sin could be removed from the list or the people could become less religious on that issue.

It is possible to consider it a sin and even condemn it without feeling extreme fear, discomfort, frustration or anger when the topic is approached.

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That's nonsense that people are AFRAID of homosexuals. That's their pet argument to try to diss people who don't agree with their immoral lifestyle.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

You might be surprised at how many of those same places despise a lot of your narrative, including the rights granted you in a liberal democracy that you take so for granted. So based on their disapproval, are you prepared to give them up?

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What the hell are you babbling about ? You have checked to see if they have read my narrative ? I lost friends in viet nam, fighting for these rights, I don´t take them for granted.

You must have a point.

JJ50 said:

That book says a lot of crazy things, which no one should take seriously.

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Nuts. It's got a lot more merit than it's detractors. In addition, if it approved of homosexual activity then you'd probably love it.

shmogie said:

What the hell are you babbling about ? You have checked to see if they have read my narrative ? I lost friends in viet nam, fighting for these rights, I don´t take them for granted.

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So whether somebody in Africa doesn't agree with them is no reason for you not to value them, right? Then why did you bring up the notions of people in Africa about gays -- to suggest that maybe the Africans are right and the west is wrong? Double standards, everywhere you turn these days.

Amanaki said:

unfortunately yes, but birth control pills or P-pill is not the intended way of living.

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Intended by who? My intention is to live my life to its fullest measure, because it's the only one I'm every going to have.

Amanaki said:

no it should be only done when planning to have a child.

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So when your wife passes childbearing years, you will permanently stop having sex?

Evangelicalhumanist said:

So whether somebody in Africa doesn't agree with them is no reason for you not to value them, right? Then why did you bring up the notions of people in Africa about gays -- to suggest that maybe the Africans are right and the west is wrong? Double standards, everywhere you turn these days.

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I didn´t bring it up ace, I was responding to another post that brought it up. Who is them in your first sentence ? Who is it that I don´t have to value or not value ? I suggested nothing, I said the homosexual crutch of blaming Christians for how they are viewed can´t be used regarding Africa.

Audie said:

Are gay men attracted to the feminine side of other men?

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Half of gay men are, and the other half are attracted to the masculine side of other men, I would say.

shmogie said:

Gads, you will rock North American homosexuals to the core, their narrative apparently doesn´t work in other parts of the world.

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shmogie said:

I didn´t bring it up ace, I was responding to another post that brought it up. Who is them in your first sentence ? Who is it that I don´t have to value or not value ? I suggested nothing, I said the homosexual crutch of blaming Christians for how they are viewed can´t be used regarding Africa.

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You said what you said above. What, exactly, is "their narrative," to you? (Doesn't it feel grand to be able to label other people as "they" by the way? Makes you all warm and squishy inside, I bet.)

I can only know who you are through your words. And your words don't often speak of feelings of shared humanity with those who aren't a lot like you.

Amanaki said:

As i said, what others do is none of my business. Sex in itself is not sinful as long it is between man and woman who are a couple. But it is for making kids.

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You're not getting that from Buddhism, that's for sure. Buddhist scriptures don't really mention homosexuality in a negative light.