Audie
Veteran Member
A level economic playing field is never ever going to happen,
it is impossible.
I dont know that it is even desirable.
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The Arrogance of Both Science and Religion
- Thread starter The Reverend Bob
- Start date
A level economic playing field is never ever going to happen,
it is impossible.
I dont know that it is even desirable.
Lovely bit of projection. Your post is delusional.
It starts with equality of education and opportunity. That seems desirable to me.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I never get bored of eating, making love, sunny days, taking walks, sharing the gospel--despite many thousands of iterations.
What makes me think Hell is "dark and cheerless" is reading the scriptures. Again I'm asking you to READ them before you make these subjective, philosophical attempts to refute them.
And how about millions of iterations? Billions? Centillions? Remember, that would just be the beginning.
OK, but *why* would it be cheerless? Maybe for someone who wants to always be singing the praises of a deity, but what about for others with different persuasions? Why not eat, make love, have good conversations, etc there as opposed to heaven? Do people lose all aspects of their personality that make them interesting?
Audie
Veteran Member
A person living on a little Pacific Island can have
a good life, maybe enviable, sans the opportunities
afforded by such as New York City.
No way to make "equal opportunities"!
Hard to do educational equality for the low
and high IQ kids.
I do like the idea of a future inwhich people
understand how to go about educating young
minds, we are still lining kids up in rows now.
There is vast potential being wasted.
We are looking deep into the future with this
stuff, if it ever happens.
It's all hard; and with an extra two billion people on the planet around mid-century, it's going to get harder and more resource-competitive than for a long time, and particularly hard for the environment.
But the alternative is not to try to improve things.
Pandora's Box, and Hope the one thing remaining? I think we can do better.
joelr
Well-Known Member
Oh you like sarcasm?
Wow, that's so impressive, a bachelor's degree! WOW WE! You must know everything!! Why didn't you say sooner that you had a BACHELOR'S DEGREE!! We have to call the biblical historicity field immediately and tell them that some who has a bachelor's degree in religion (secular....so..) is going to set us straight.
Maybe we should get the biblical archeologists in on it too!
Yes ancient people were obsessed with sin and sacrifice. And modern people all over the world are convinced that haunted houses are real. And still often obsessed with sacrifice and sin atonement.
But logic and critical thinking are really starting to win people over and we may get out of the dark ages yet.
No, it's the right field. Are you suggesting a religion forum is a bad place to discuss religion?
Are you implying how dare someone question religious dogma? (Insulting the faith? Yes you sure are.)
Except....whoops, you wandered into the Religion and SCIENCE forum. Science works a bit differently, we look at evidence, it's actually encouraged.
Your ignorance is your own responsibility. I can only put forth information, you believe what you like.
If I'm atoning for anything it's acting like a fool believing ancient myths as real.
Is that your last resort go-to? Psychology?
And no one here is a skeptic. Are you a skeptic because you don't worship Romulus? No. You can believe what you like but not believing mythology does not make anyone a skeptic.
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We Never Know
No Slack
"But logic and critical thinking are really starting to win people over and we may get out of the dark ages yet."
Is it your opinion we still live in the dark ages?
joelr
Well-Known Member
You probably are aware of all sorts of apologetics. The PhD historicity field is in consensus on dates and the idea that Jesus was a man who was later mythicized.
"Most scholars believe that Mark was written by a second-generation Christian, around or shortly after the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Second Temple in year 70.
Biblical scholars generally hold that Matthew was composed between the years c. 70 and 100.
Most scholars hold that Matthew drew heavily on Mark and added teaching from the Q document"
Although PhD Carrier disputes the Q theory and cites the world's leading expert Mark Goodacre in that Matthew was most likely copied from Mark.
There is a 90% copy rate among the Greek from Mark to Matthew so there is no question in scholarship of it being copied from some source.
Really, Pascal's Wager? No one is rejecting any god anymore than you reject Zeus.
If that god is real he decided to cloud his reality in stories and beliefs that mirror myths to every minor detail. Even his origin looks exactly like how you would expect a mythical god to be slowly fashioned into a modern concept? The OT still has references to his warrior origins?
Exodus 15:3:
Yahweh is a man of war;
Yahweh is his name.
Isaiah 42:13:
Yahweh goes forth like a mighty man;
like a man of war(s) he stirs up his fury.
Zephaniah 3:17: Yahweh, your God, is in your midst,
a warrior who gives victory.
Psalm 24:8:
Who is the King of Glory?
Yahweh, strong and mighty;
Yahweh, mighty in battle.
In these passages Yahweh is explicitly called a warrior or directly compared to a warrior. If one
moves out from simple designations to actual functioning, the metaphor or image is even more
extensively present. Yahweh is the subject of many verbs that belong to the sphere of warfare
The Israelites initially worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal.[37] In the period of the Judges and the first half of the monarchy, El and Yahweh became conflated in a process of religious syncretism.[
Yahweh[Notes 1] was the national god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel (Samaria) and Judah.[3] His exact origins are disputed, although they reach back to the early Iron Age and even the Late Bronze:[4][5] his name may have begun as an epithet of El, head of the Bronze Age Canaanite pantheon,[6] but the earliest plausible mentions of Yahweh are in Egyptian texts that refer to a similar-sounding place name associated with the Shasu nomads of the southern Transjordan.[7]
In the oldest biblical literature, Yahweh is a typical ancient Near Eastern "divine warrior", who leads the heavenly army against Israel's enemies;[8] he later became the main god of the Kingdom of Israel (Samaria) and of Judah,[9] and over time the royal court and Temple in Jerusalem promoted Yahweh as the god of the entire cosmos, possessing all the positive qualities previously attributed to the other gods and goddesses.[10][11] By the end of the Babylonian captivity (6th century BCE), the very existence of foreign gods was denied, and Yahweh was proclaimed as the creator of the cosmos and the true god of all the world.[11
Yahweh - Wikipedia
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joelr
Well-Known Member
If people still believe bronze age myths as real then yes. Having better technology doesn't mean we are emotionally as advanced. It's not an all-or-nothing thing.
If your worldview is still Zorastrian concepts of hell, god vs satan and world ends in fire and sin-forgiven people will live in paradise, yes, dark ages.
Audie
Veteran Member
I did not remotely suggest that, sorry.
Audie
Veteran Member
A bachelors? I have a DDiv.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I can extrapolate after thousands of iterations that millions or billions will be fine--I expect also to live in the moment, without earthly cares, and to be transformed to the image of Christ, who is made for eternity.
What do you mean "always singing the praises of a deity"? I have eternal LIFE, eternal friendships, eternal eating and everything else we're discussing. I can't sing to God every moment while eating pizza.
Indeed, other than gaining God's perspective on many things, and being able to travel the universe with friends, what will be different about me, to answer your last question, is when I hear a voice say, "BB, don't do THAT" I'll say, "Yes, Lord." I'll still be me, without the propensity to hurt others or myself. If you don't want THAT, if you like disobeying the promptings of conscience to hurt other people and yourself, even sporadically, you can't go to the party. Only moral adults are allowed!
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
So, above we have:
1) You denigrated my specialty of knowledge in Bible studies and continue to be patronizing
2) You assume our ancestors were all morons (they all made sacrifices), so hopefully our apples fell far from the moronic tree
3) You feel all ancient myths and modern myths are for fools, so you spend endless hours exploring the myths of fools on a foolish forum
You can waste my time, why waste yours?
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I'm aware of Ph.D consensus, I'm further aware that 97% of these polymath geniuses voted for Clinton twice and Obama twice. The world despises their lack of FAITH.
God fights battles for the downtrodden. I'm sorry, you, being your own God, are not a warrior. Fight! Fight for truth!
cladking
Well-Known Member
There's certainly one thing that the faithful have over believers in science; an ability to appreciate a wide range of ideas that don't conform to orthodoxy.
Of course we all have our own "orthodoxy" we carry everywhere we go and to every perspective but scientific orthodoxy is the narrower and excludes the more ideas.
This applies a little less to real scientists but it seems to apply quite broadly. Everything offends "scientific" sensibilities.
joelr
Well-Known Member
1) You denigrated my specialty of knowledge in Bible studies and continue to be patronizing
Nope, I denigrated the fact that you were sarcastic - "while completing my Religion Bachelor's at a secular university (rolls eyes)." and snarky and don't seem to understand theological studies are not the same as historicity studies.
2) You assume our ancestors were all morons (they all made sacrifices), so hopefully our apples fell far from the moronic tree
I never said they were "morons" but they did hold false beliefs about the universe and yes sacrifices are moronic things to be doing. Some cultures would sacrifice a young virgin male and female then consume the remains so the tribe could access their youth and vitality. We see a form of this in the eating of the body and blood of Jesus.
So in that sense some have not fallen far from the tree.
3) You feel all ancient myths and modern myths are for fools, so you spend endless hours exploring the myths of fools on a foolish forum
Never said that either. Why do you keep putting words in my post? Myths are great, I am a big fan of mythology and a sort-of student of Joseph Campbell. I recognize the importance of mythology in society.
There are 2 problems with Christian mythology that Campbell explains that causes it to miss it's function as proper mythology. But that's neither here nor there.
When you start thinking myths are literal that is what's for fools.
joelr
Well-Known Member
How can you say so many wrong things in such a short post?
I'm not a god, deity, superhero or even have magic powers. If some god created reality then cool. I'm not that god.
But I am fighting for truth. Can you not even see that?
You are also conflating concepts here. Political faith is not religious faith. In religion "faith" is just a placeholder to say it's ok to believe something with zero evidence.
That is not political faith where one can look at evidence and past actions and make some informed choices.
The people who believe they are being abducted by aliens and getting a message that we must take better care of our planet and that they are going to use The Secret to manifest riches, that's that kind of "faith".
Supernatural, pray to Thor, type wu-wu faith has nothing to do with politics. Although Trump did win playing on the "savior" trope. Everything is messed up and he's gonna fix everything. We'll be winning. It worked, people eat that stuff up.
But Richard Carrier who did the modern PhD Jesus historicity study was a Taoist until a Christian compelled him to read the bible and consider Christianity.
After his reading he believed it to be myth but he accepted the consensus in the historicity field that Jesus was a man.
Later when he applied his PhD to a Jesus historicity study he expected to back up the consensus in the field.
That didn't happen. But the point is his beliefs and assumptions do not at all match your generalizations of non-religious folks.
joelr
Well-Known Member
You do?