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Featured The Arrogance of Both Science and Religion

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by The Reverend Bob, May 19, 2019.

  1. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Often we assume that science and religion are at odds with each other, one states that it is based on reason and logic while the other is said to be based on faith and hope. But we often do not see how similar they are in their false promises and claims. We are told both can be used to make the world a better place. We are told by those that hold them true that they are tools which can create a paradise...of course both parties always promised this "paradise" is somewhere in "the future" meanwhile those living in the present suffer under the auspices of both philosophies.

    Promises, promises, promises. Both claim to have understanding of our nature, of the nature of the universe and both claim the ability to predict the future. Each claiming to be the truth even though science epitomizes verisimilitude and religion epitomize "faith". Seems to me that both are acts of faith it is just a matter if you want to have faith in verisimilitude or have faith in faith.

    Both these philosophies promise us "salvation", people who put their faith in the science community believe that someday science will solve all our problems and someday because of science we will be transported into the stars, while those who believe in religion believe through religious discipline we will be saved and/or enlighten and transported into the Heavens.

    There doesn't seem to be much of a difference to me.
     
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  2. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    We don't. Perhaps you do. Unless you meant 'we' as you and the mouse in your pocket.

    But I digress. Welcome to RF.
     
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  3. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    Science has never offered "salvation", and there is no general belief among scientists that science can solve "all" problems. Regardless, science as a tool has been used to improve billions of lives all around the world, more than doubling average life expectancy and improving the standard of living for practically everyone on the planet. It never presents itself as perfect, it just works.

    So your comparison is flawed.
     
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  4. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Sorry for the generalization, perhaps I should have used the term "Most people" rather than "We". Fact are you cannot reconciled what religion says is true with what science says is true any more that you can reconcile Capitalism and Marxism. Both have similarities but ultimately they oppose each other in their message.
     
  5. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I have no issues whatsoever with both religion and science.

    Not sure which scientific discipline offers salvation, though.
     
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  6. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    During your extensive and comprehensive study of every single world religion and all of their traditions, you’ve clearly missed mine.

    I have no issue whatsoever reconciling my worldview with science.

    Neither, as I see it, exists for the purpose of salvation.
     
    #6 SalixIncendium, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
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  7. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Doubling the life expectancy in 1st world countries, but your savior has not been that great in the 3rd world, in fact it has often been used to cut their life short. And let us look at our current situation involving the environment, we can't blame religion for that can we? But what tools has humanity used to decimate the environment in which it lives, obviously scientific knowledge and technology. So don't give me that "science does nothing but good" spiel. It doesn't.
     
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  8. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    I don't know maybe medicine, AI and robotics, sociology and etc and etc. So many disciplines have been claim to offer us hope and promise, that we will be able to solve this or that problem through them. Don't give me that "No one ever says that" line because people say those sort of things all the time. Go to any science news site and you will see many article with "Science promises to X will help us solve Y in the near future" tagline.
     
  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Uh, sorry, but that does not make a lot of sense.

    Science is science. Religion, if it takes itself seriously, has no reason to oppose it.
     
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  10. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    Well good for you, but you may not know this but the majority of people can't reconcile the two. It is a reality no matter how much you want to deny it. There are people who believe that somehow science is going to save us from our own self-destructiveness and their are some who believe religion will save us from our sins and never shall the twain meet.
     
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  11. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    But religion often does seriously oppose what science has to say and vice versa. Otherwise you wouldn't be debating Creationism vs Evolution in these forums. The existence of those debates is proof that there is opposition and always will be because both narratives are in opposition to each other. Like Rashomon.
     
  12. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Oh you mean modern convenience? Sorry when you say salvation and religion in the same sentence, salvation carries a far more permanent and somber tone overall.
    Science offering solutions to problems is just modernity in action. In truth science just wants to see if it can, because it’s insatiably curious. The applications for human use has more to do with the marketing department, in all honesty. Not saying there aren’t scientists working towards specific goals for human use, but science just does its thing and people assume that it’s going to make life easier. Which, to be fair, is what usually happens.
    Laymen are the ones who apply this salvation onto scientific achievements. Scientists themselves often could care less and are more interested in pushing the boundaries of human achievement or simply figuring out a phenomenon. That’s hardly science’s fault.
     
    #12 SomeRandom, May 19, 2019
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  13. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    How can science, an objective tool, be arrogant?

    That's like saying "Damn math, so arrogant to presume that 2 + 2 = 4!"
     
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  14. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    "God is who. Evolution is how" is very much alive - the narratives are only in opposition by some but not by all. This proves that the opposition is only apparent and only exists for some.
     
  15. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    The arrogance lies not on what science is but in how humanity views it and utilizes it. There is were my doubts in both science and religion lie, in their utility. I don't think both philosophies are inherently bad but I doubt that science or religion offer humanity any real hope for our future. Science is useful in offering us a picture of how the universe works and for that I am grateful but as some sort of method of hope I am very doubtful just as I am doubtful that religion offers any sort of hope even though it does show us how people construct narratives that are meaningful to them and their culture.
     
  16. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    The narratives are in opposition by most not some. If you read recent polls asking believer whether they believe the creation narrative of their religion or the cosmological narrative put forth by scientist must believers will choose their religious narrative
     
  17. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Well-Known Member
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    Maybe it is just the way many has chosen to use science and religion that is the issue.

    Regards Tony
     
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  18. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    If there doesn't seem much of a difference to you, then you aren't looking closely. Religion promises results, and always has. "Here is the way to paradise, here the way to damnation. Here is truth, there is heresy." These claims are absolute, and brook no dissent.

    Science promises to look at all the evidence, and try to find explanations that account for all of the evidence, not just the bits that somebody likes and ignoring the bits he doesn't.

    And no, science doesn't promise "salvation." Science promises to try to find answers to problems that perplex us, cures for diseases that plague us, solutions to evils we do to ourselves.

    And yes, sometimes science finds answers that can do us great good, that we can then turn to great evil...like nuclear physics. But that is not the fault of science...that is the fault of us. We can make the best, or the worst, use of anything at all, but that has to do with nothing but our own choices.
     
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  19. The Reverend Bob

    The Reverend Bob Fart Machine and Beastmaster

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    It is a matter of utility. People are ultimately utilitarians when it comes to both but the reality when it comes to both they are limited yet many see science or religion giving them the answer to everything.
     
  20. cladking

    cladking Active Member

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    People seek the truth in religion and others seek understanding in experiment. Both or neither can find exactly what they are seeking and both require belief to operate.
     
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