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What does “unscientific” mean?

Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Jim said:
((My question is specifically about views, things that people say, as if they are true. In forum discussions, do you ever call what some other people say they believe “unscientific”? If so, what information do you think you’re communicating to the people you’re talking to, when you say that? Also, when other people call some views “unscientific,” do you think they always mean the same thing that you mean by that? If not, what else do you think they might mean, and how do you know what each person means by it?))
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Are they proposing a view about Evolution, gravity, time, biology? Then if I say their view is unscientific I mean it in a pretty damning sense, because I'm saying they are not making any sense to me. If its something else like politics then I'm not making a lot of sense. There is 'Political science' but no political view is unscientific. Political science is a philosophical discipline, so its an entirely different thing. That 'Science' doesn't use scientific method. Its more like a field of study although its called a Science if it regards some scientific principles, like testing ideas. Still, you can't really have an unscientific political point of view.
 
Jim

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Road Warrior said:
If someone declares something "unscientific" then they can prove it by providing scientific evidence backing their view.
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((Do you think that’s always what people mean, when they say “unscientific”? If not, what else do you think that people might mean when they call some views “unscientific,” and how do you know what each person means by it?))
 
Road Warrior

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Jim said:
((Do you think that’s always what people mean, when they say “unscientific”? If not, what else do you think that people might mean when they call some views “unscientific,” and how do you know what each person means by it?))
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No. I think anyone who can't provide scientific evidence to prove their point is merely stating an opinion.

OTOH, I don't need to be able to build a Saturn V rocket in order to accept the evidence mankind landed on the Moon.
 
osgart

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
So what does everybody make of people that do not have the benefit of much scientific knowledge and have to rely on their own understandings, experiences, observations and interpretations of things?
 
Jim

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Brickjectivity said:
Then if I say their view is unscientific I mean it in a pretty damning sense, because I'm saying they are not making any sense to me. If its something else like politics then I'm not making a lot of sense.
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((Do you think that’s always what people mean, when they call some views “unscientific”? If not, what else do you think they might mean by it, and how do you know what each person means by it?))
 
shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Jim said:
((Do you think that’s always what people mean, when they say “unscientific”? If not, what else do you think that people might mean when they call some views “unscientific,” and how do you know what each person means by it?))
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I will go with the definitions presented. unscientific or anti-science view does not accept or rejects science in one way or another as the basis for understanding the nature of our physical existence. There are limits to science based on Methodological Naturalism, which do not falsify theological and philosophical claims beyond the objective verifiable evidence for the nature of our physical existence. Religious and philosophical beliefs beyond the limits of science are not 'anti-science nor unscientific.

Unscientific is simply in opposition to science in one way or another.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Jim said:
((Do you think that’s always what people mean, when they call some views “unscientific”? If not, what else do you think they might mean by it, and how do you know what each person means by it?))
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You must understand just a few things. First, hard sciences are where the scientific method can be followed most closely: physics, chemistry, astronomy. When someone puts forward an idea its always testable in these fields. Nothing else will ever be as scientific. Outside of these the meaning of unscientific means different things.
 
Jim

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Road Warrior said:
No. I think anyone who can't provide scientific evidence to prove their point is merely stating an opinion.
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((What opinion do you think people are stating, when they call some views “unscientific,” without being able to prove it with scientific evidence? Is it different for each person, and if so, how do you know what each person means by it? In forum discussions, do you ever call any views “unscientific”? If people have to be convinced by your scientific evidence, to know if those views really are unscientific, or if that’s just your opinion, what good does it do to call it “unscientific”? Why not just say that it’s false and give your evidence?))
 
Jim

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Brickjectivity said:
Outside of these the meaning of unscientific means different things.
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((If “unscientific” can mean different things, then when you see people calling some views “unscientific,” how do you know what they mean by it? Also, if you call some views “unscientific” without explaining what you mean by that, how do you expect anyone to know what you do mean by it?))
 
The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
This is an example of how snowblind people can get, they get so lost in the snow of their ideology that they cannot understand the meaning of a simple question. They can't see beyond the language and meaning of ideology. Step outside the box, people.
 
PoetPhilosopher

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I think Jim has influenced my stay on this forum real positively, but lately I feel like the conversations have gone like this:

Me: Here is evidence

Jim: I mean, what do you mean when you say, here is evidence? I want to know the epistemology of it

Me: So you want to know the epistemology of it?

Jim: No. I mean, the theory of knowledge, especially with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. The investigation of what distinguishes justified belief. Not the epistemology of it.

Me: :(

So it's a difficult subject. I want so bad to provide constructive, loving advice given he's helped me so much and contribute positively to the threads. But I also don't want it to be interpreted as me being rude in all the nitty-gritty of doing so.

So that's my friendly opinion. If this was real life, I'd still drink a coffee at a coffee house with Jim, I think. But these internet discussions sometimes have language barriers.
 
Road Warrior

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Jim said:
((What opinion do you think people are stating, when they call some views “unscientific,” without being able to prove it with scientific evidence? Is it different for each person, and if so, how do you know what each person means by it? In forum discussions, do you ever call any views “unscientific”? If people have to be convinced by your scientific evidence, to know if those views really are unscientific, or if that’s just your opinion, what good does it do to call it “unscientific”? Why not just say that it’s false and give your evidence?))
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Please speak plainly. It seems you are being ((as coy as a virginal schoolgirl.))
 
Jim

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Road Warrior said:
Please speak plainly. It seems you are being ((as coy as a virginal schoolgirl.))
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All right, one step at a time. Do you agree that there is more than one dictionary definition of “unscientific,” and that what most people actually mean to say when they use that word, is different from all those definitions? In other words, different people, when they say “unscientific,” mean very different things, and there are half a dozen or more different things that people mean when they say that. You can see that from what people have said in this thread. Do you agree with that?
 
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