Does Free Will Exist?

Willamena · May 25, 2019

columbus said:
Yes.
But some refer to concepts with objective existence, such as hydrogen and gravity.

It doesn't matter what you believe, hydrogen and gravity exist.
Other terms refer to things that have no objective existence, only a subjective belief. Such as God and scriptures and free will and horizons.
Tom

God, free will, and horizons can be considered to be nothing more than concepts.

Skwim · May 25, 2019

QuestioningMind said:
My awareness that I possess two different wants.

Sorry, but your awareness explains nothing.

That awareness enables me to direct my thinking in one direction or another.

Okay, then just how does this "enabling" work? What propels your thinking to one direction rather than the other?

It's possible to be unaware of your thoughts, in which case it can be a matter of which thoughts you randomly happen to focus on.

FYI, anytime you introduce randomness into the equation you deprive the will of all freedom.

.

Willamena · May 25, 2019

charlie sc said:
What about all the people with body dysmorphic disorder? For instance, someone with anorexia cannot choose to see themselves as dangerously underweight even though that’s what they are.

Can Sisyphus choose not to roll the stone?

The Reverend Bob · May 25, 2019

If consciousness is an illusion what does that make of free will? And if there are things that are inevitable like death and taxes wouldn't the concept of the inevitable nullify the concept of free will?

osgart · May 25, 2019

Skwim said:
How? How does the will freely control? Just saying that it's the will that does the controlling is meaningless without an explanation. So, how does the will freely operate in order to arrive at a conclusion?

.

.

I have set up my own standards and values as to what kinds of things i will to do, and what i do not will to do. And i am pleased with the results of those standards and values.

You simply asserting that this freedom is an illusion where i have no say in my own will is like saying i will fall for anything.

Skwim · May 25, 2019

osgart said:
A person that is motivated entirely of their own doing is free of will and not caused by any other factors, only their will.

So just how does the will do such a thing. What is its modus operandi? Simply claiming its existence says nothing. Actually. I'm not even sure I'm readying your statement correctly. Might want to rephrase it a bit.

A person that is satisfied with their own will is content with the will they have and does not desire to change it. I am quite pleased with my will for everything, and everybody, and since my will is peaceful and sufficient of itself I am free in my will.

Free will is a will that is just in its intentions.

My will itself is not controlled by external factors. It is my will and i have chosen it for myself.

Okay.

.

Skwim · May 25, 2019

osgart said:
I have set up my own standards and values as to what kinds of things i will to do, and what i do not will to do. And i am pleased with the results of those standards and values.

You simply asserting that this freedom is an illusion where i have no say in my own will is like saying i will fall for anything.

No, you will only do what you are caused to do. You have no choice to do otherwise.

.

Willamena · May 25, 2019

The Reverend Bob said:
If consciousness is an illusion what does that make of free will? And if there are things that are inevitable like death and taxes wouldn't the concept of the inevitable nullify the concept of free will?

Consciousness is a state. It cannot be an illusion if it's a state.

Enoch07 · May 25, 2019

Koldo said:
I acknowledge it is possible to want multiple things, even contradictory things. Our choice happens on the basis of what we truly want the most at any given moment.

No, you can chose to go against the greater of your desires. You personally may not chose to, but that just means you are a slave to your desires.

charlie sc · May 25, 2019

osgart said:
I have set up my own standards and values as to what kinds of things i will to do, and what i do not will to do.

How did you get to those standards in the first place?

Enoch07 · May 25, 2019

Koldo said:
Why are you taking this principled stand ?
What do you want to achieve ?

I am take a stand because I refuse to give in to addiction.

I want to be happy just like everyone else.

Willamena · May 25, 2019

charlie sc said:
How did you get to those standards in the first place?

Probably through a series of choices.

osgart · May 25, 2019

Skwim said:
So just how does the will do such a thing. What is its modus operandi? Simply claiming its existence says nothing. Actually. I'm not even sure I'm readying your statement correctly. Might want to rephrase it a bit.

Okay.

.

charlie sc said:
How did you get to those standards in the first place?

At first in my youth it was trial and error. Then i came to realize that just was not working. So i created standards for myself using the english language i came upon virtues. Literal meanings that i could see were the causes and effects i delighted in. I found motivations in the motivations themselves. To have these motivations was to be free in my own being. I knew if i rejected these motivations i would end up in a fate i would in no wise way desire. But it was more then that, i literally delighted in these meanings. I was noneso interested in doing otherwise. I was finally free of foolish desires. I took those meanings to heart and i would never go back.

Koldo · May 25, 2019

Enoch07 said:
I am take a stand because I refuse to give in to addiction.

I want to be happy just like everyone else.

And you think that by taking this stand of yours you are gonna be happier ?

Trailblazer · May 25, 2019

syo said:
Isn't that greedy? Our current choices are not enough??? That's greedy.

It is not greedy, it's just stupid to say that that we could NOT make choices other than the ones we make.

Enoch07 · May 25, 2019

Koldo said:
And you think that by taking this stand of yours you are gonna be happier ?

We shall see.

I always have the option to opt out at anytime I see fit should the pain become too bad. So I can afford to ride it out, at least for a little while.

Koldo · May 25, 2019

Enoch07 said:
We shall see.

I always have the option to opt out at anytime I see fit should the pain become too bad. So I can afford to ride it out, at least for a little while.

Then you are acting on the basis of what you want the most. That corroborates with what I am saying.

columbus · May 25, 2019

Willamena said:
God, free will, and horizons can be considered to be nothing more than concepts.

I know.
But lots of important things exist, but not in an objective way.
Shakespearean literature, mathematics, morals, political ideology, God...

The list is just endless. People are extremely able to believe in things without objective existence.
It seems to me that people are better at believing in things without objective existence than the things which do have objective existence. Because we are subjective beings, without much grasp of objective reality.

It's all about us, as individuals. Nothing is more subjective than that.
Tom

Enoch07 · May 25, 2019

Koldo said:
Then you are acting on the basis of what you want the most. That corroborates with what I am saying.

No what I want the most I am denying myself. I am choosing the path that I don't want.

Willamena · May 25, 2019

columbus said:
I know.
But lots of important things exist, but not in an objective way.
Shakespearean literature, mathematics, morals, political ideology, God...

As someone said earlier, depends on what you mean by "objective." I think you may mean "actual."

The list is just endless. People are extremely able to believe in things without objective existence.
It seems to me that people are better at believing in things without objective existence than the things which do have objective existence. Because we are subjective beings, without much grasp of objective reality.

It's all about us, as individuals. Nothing is more subjective than that.
Tom

I don't disagree (assuming you mean "actual").

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