Islamic Jihad

InvestigateTruth · Apr 14, 2019

Audie said:
You re just rephrasing what I said but
trying to hold on to the claimthat there
is one "true" version. If anyone could ever
figure out what it is?

And I sayeth again: IF the laws were
actually defined they would not have
endless competing versions, each
justified with cogent apologetics, each
saying they got it right and all the others
are misrepresenting it.

"Corrupted desires" probably comes into it
here and there.

"One True, all else is
corrupt desire" ? Is that what all 40k
Xian sects say of eachother?

Which one got it right? Mormons? JW?
NOOOO, I bet it is chubrchachrist!

Sheesh. Who needs Islam as a corrupt
foe when baptists have catholics to
denounce?

I am saying, the Jihad (holy war) that we see today, some terorists groups are doing in the name of Islam and God, are due to their own corrupted desires. The Quran does not allow that. They misuse and misapply laws of Quran to justify their evil acts. They interpret the verses according to their corrupted desire.

Firemorphic · Apr 14, 2019

icehorse said:
Your opinion of me isn't the point. I've made a series of claims. In a debate, that's what you need to focus on, the claims, not your personal junk.

And the claims you make are the exact thing I am talking about (however a lot of your "claims" are very vague abstract conjecture), not 'your personal junk' which you've got a lot of.
Still, if you had answered a single question I'd asked you on every thread since I've been here (threads where you make big, broad statements), then I'd be somewhat satisfied that you are capable of doing the minimum of clarifying your viewpoints.

Firemorphic · Apr 14, 2019

InvestigateTruth said:
I am saying, the Jihad (holy war) that we see today, some terorists groups are doing in the name of Islam and God, are due to their own corrupted desires.

Not to forget political coercion which is at the center of it, it's got nothing to do with the spiritual Jihad. However, it does cause many actual Muslims to go through a state of Jihad through being persecuted by such terrorists.

loverofhumanity · Apr 14, 2019

Audie said:
Oh good grief.

It all goes back to verification. What cannot be verified is questionable.

loverofhumanity · Apr 14, 2019

Audie said:
So you did not address the justification you
gave for killing babies "in self defense".

The Quran is wholly authentic as it was compiled in the lifetime of Muhammad and on the killing of infants God states in it... clearly against the killing of infants.

And when the female child that had been buried alive shall be asked For what crime she was put to death, (81:8-9)

This is the same God of the Bible but the biblical account has no known author and was written about 200 years after the event which speaks for itself. The author was not an eyewitness so had to rely on information handed down over 200 years while the entire Quran was written in 23 years.

Niblo · Apr 15, 2019

InvestigateTruth said:
I am saying, the Jihad (holy war) that we see today, some terorists groups are doing in the name of Islam and God, are due to their own corrupted desires. The Quran does not allow that. They misuse and misapply laws of Quran to justify their evil acts. They interpret the verses according to their corrupted desire.

It is not correct to portray ‘jihad’ as a ‘holy war’. ‘Holy war’ is rendered ‘al-harb al-muqadas’; a phrase that does not exist in classical Arabic, and is not found in the Qur'an. According to the Qur’an no war is 'holy'; not under any circumstance.

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

InvestigateTruth said:
I am saying, the Jihad (holy war) that we see today, some terorists groups are doing in the name of Islam and God, are due to their own corrupted desires. The Quran does not allow that. They misuse and misapply laws of Quran to justify their evil acts. They interpret the verses according to their corrupted desire.

You are only referring to terrorists? They do of course think they are
the righteous and the holy-like everyone else.

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
The Quran is wholly authentic as it was compiled in the lifetime of Muhammad and on the killing of infants God states in it... clearly against the killing of infants.

And when the female child that had been buried alive shall be asked For what crime she was put to death, (81:8-9)

This is the same God of the Bible but the biblical account has no known author and was written about 200 years after the event which speaks for itself. The author was not an eyewitness so had to rely on information handed down over 200 years while the entire Quran was written in 23 years.

"Wholly authentic". That is what xians say bout their
bible, the LDS of their book.

The original manuscript of
"Moby Dick" is wholly authentic.

Of the three "holy books", LDS has the best claim, by your criteria.
There is also the signed testimony of many witnesses.

By any sort of evidentiary criteria, of course, they are
all nonsense. No evidence whatever that they are
not entirely the product of human imagination.
At the best, only one of them is.

Tres amusant, btw, to see who is the sycophant
declaring you to be a winner with that worthless
assertion, "wholly authentic".

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

Niblo said:
It is not correct to portray ‘jihad’ as a ‘holy war’. ‘Holy war’ is rendered ‘al-harb al-muqadas’; a phrase that does not exist in classical Arabic, and is not found in the Qur'an. According to the Qur’an no war is 'holy'; not under any circumstance.

So they call it by some other name! That makes,
like, all the difference!

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
It all goes back to verification. What cannot be verified is questionable.

I dont find the koran, the bible and the book of mormon
to be merely "questionable". There is nothing but a few
place names etc that can be verified.

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

InvestigateTruth said:
I am saying, the Jihad (holy war) that we see today, some terorists groups are doing in the name of Islam and God, are due to their own corrupted desires. The Quran does not allow that. They misuse and misapply laws of Quran to justify their evil acts. They interpret the verses according to their corrupted desire.

That is fine for you to say. Everyone reads their
holy books to say what they want them to say.
And points at the other and says they are the corrupt ones.

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

The_Fisher_King said:
I wasn't talking about reformation of a religion's doctrines 'on paper', I was talking about the fact that all religions, Islam included, are so much more than doctrines that one can read in a holy book or books etc. .

Both more, and much less than.

loverofhumanity · Apr 15, 2019

Audie said:
"Wholly authentic". That is what xians say bout their
bible, the LDS of their book.

The original manuscript of
"Moby Dick" is wholly authentic.

Of the three "holy books", LDS has the best claim, by your criteria.
There is also the signed testimony of many witnesses.

By any sort of evidentiary criteria, of course, they are
all nonsense. No evidence whatever that they are
not entirely the product of human imagination.
At the best, only one of them is.

Tres amusant, btw, to see who is the sycophant
declaring you to be a winner with that worthless
assertion, "wholly authentic".

That’s your view and you’re entitled to it.

loverofhumanity · Apr 15, 2019

Audie said:
I dont find the koran, the bible and the book of mormon
to be merely "questionable". There is nothing but a few
place names etc that can be verified.

If you’re not even open to the possibility that there could be a God Who sends Prophets then nothing can be verified for you.

icehorse · Apr 15, 2019

Firemorphic said:
And the claims you make are the exact thing I am talking about (however a lot of your "claims" are very vague abstract conjecture), not 'your personal junk' which you've got a lot of.
Still, if you had answered a single question I'd asked you on every thread since I've been here (threads where you make big, broad statements), then I'd be somewhat satisfied that you are capable of doing the minimum of clarifying your viewpoints.

I believe I have answered all of your questions that weren't of the sea-lioning type. If you feel I haven't, I'd be happy to now. What questions of yours have I not yet answered?

Cooky · Apr 15, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
I was "Christian" for three decades and in retrospect they were never peaceful. The record is rife with examples of those who used Christianity as an excuse to invade and conquer. Sure there was the Islamic conquest, but then is the invasion of North and South America and what they did any less of an vicious aggression? As far as I know, only Canada has apologized for what they did to the Dine there. When I was young, and told to not reveal my background, we were told that the Native peoples of North America did not please God, so he sent the Europeans to invade, and all those deaths of the Native people were justified as the "Will of God".

There are many sad stories among them the stories of the Navajo, and the Nez Perce, and the Warm Springs. Here in Oregon, the Native American was given a generous reservation until Gold was discovered, and then the White Eyes came and took most of that land.

Even today in parts of Central and South America the Native People are second class citizens to the Spaniards, as I learned in Honduras when I was there.

So, I am not very open to depicting Islam as the scourge of the world ... it is a lie.

Yeah, but the Christians learned it from the Muslims. If not for Islamic conquest, the Spaniards would have never had to expel all Muslims from Spain. After that experience, the Spanish were a changed people forever. They became the conquerers.

...Thanks Islam.

Cooky · Apr 15, 2019

Nowhere Man said:
Most religious conflicts and wars throughout world history stems from Abrahamic religion almost exclusively.

There's no question Abrahamics overall revolve around submission and subjection to doctrine. Things that fit well whenever describing cults for which the violence is not out of the question.

There's no doubt Islamic sects leads the charge in violent behavior followed close by Christians with Judaism trailing last as it stands today.

The Muslims started it all. Their prophet was a warlord and they taught all the "Abrahamics" to fight.

...The Jewish Zealots were pretty horrible people though. Maybe Mohammed learned from them how to be a radical killer.

Lyndon · Apr 15, 2019

Actually the Jews in the Old Testament were the original violent war like nation

Cooky · Apr 15, 2019

Lyndon said:
Actually the Jews in the Old Testament were the original violent war like nation

They slaughtered their own, locking the temple doors and killing everyone inside. Then they burned down their own temple. They never built it again... They were called the "Zealots".

...Thats what fundamentalism leads to if gone radical and unchecked.

Audie · Apr 15, 2019

loverofhumanity said:
If you’re not even open to the possibility that there could be a God Who sends Prophets then nothing can be verified for you.

Uh, no. But you are again making statements of fact not in
evidence.

Islamic Jihad

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