Why learn about other faiths?

Audie said:

Sure. Does saying that "capitalism is greedy and flawed"
help in this process some way?

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Recognizing that capitalism is flawed, and that it's primary flaw is its greed, is in fact very productive. The first step to solving a problem is to recognize that you have one.

adrian009 said:

One of the strengths of religious forum is the diversity of Faiths represented. That presents an excellent opportunity to learn about the faiths of others. This opportunity doesn’t readily present itself to the same degree where I live as religion has become a risky topic of conversation and so best avoided. This year I joined my cities Interfaith council so that’s been helpful.

But why learn about the religion of another in the first place? What is your motivation and what is mine? It’s a personal question really. For me I like to see the bigger picture of ‘world history’ with civilisations that have come and been, and ideologies and beliefs that inspired the masses. It helps me better understand the world as it is today and others in an increasingly multicultural world. It also brings coherence to my own faith and worldview I can not deny.

Obviously there’s other agendas too. We can learn about another faiths so we can make our own beliefs look good and demean others. Many of us know that illusory satisfaction in our worldview as we build our straw man as to what we imagine another’s faith is about. Ego trips are part of the human condition and whose really immune?

Anyway thoughts and reflections? Thanks for listening and discussing if your interested.

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I learned about other religions because I was "Seeking the Truth". I assumed if there was Truth to be had about God, some religious ideology should possess it. What I found is a lot of experiential truth that could affect people in the spiritual/mental realm but not truths that had any external effect on reality. I ended up with a kind of eclectic mess of ideologies. I came across somewhere the idea that moving from one religion to another like I did can lead to insanity.

I suppose if one is looking for a "spiritual" experience, any ideology will do. However I don't think jumping from ideology to ideology "seeking the True faith" is that beneficial.

iam1me said:

Capitalism is more than just an economy, it is a systematic approach to the economy meant to maximize profits at the expense of the rest of society. That's why companies are making record profits and paying their employees less than what they need to just survive. Look at Amazon for instance - they are worth trillions! Yet their employees are so afraid of not meeting quotas that they **** in containers rather thank risk a bathroom break, they pass out and are hospitalized or even die from being overworked, etc. And these two facts are not unrelated - it is through such mistreatment and disregard for their workers that Amazon can secure such profits.

Work is good, having a stable economy is good, but greed is never good. And capitalism is nothing more than systematic greed.

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(How'd we end up talking about capitalism?)
Capitalism accepts the inherent nature of man is self-interest, greed I suppose, an incorporates that into it's ideology. Capitalism works because of human self-interest, it doesn't created.

Is it flawed? Not everyone is as capable of promoting their self interest. People who are better at it will fair better than those who are not. People thrive who improve their abilities, it doesn't work well for people who either are unwilling or unable to improve themselves.

Marcion said:

I think I agree with you. But what exactly is a secular person? Is someone practising yoga and meditation a secular person to you or a religious person? And suppose that person practising yoga and meditation has also adopted a moral code, does that make them religious? Or if they sometimes or even regularly meet up with others to practise group meditation, does that make them religious?
Where or how do you draw the line?

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As far as i am concerned none of what you mentioned makes the ones doing them religious. All those things have practical benefits. Moral codes do not make one religious.
Secular people have no religious nor spiritual beliefs.
Religion is associated with a belief in an afterlife, and how to realize the best possible afterlife. Spiritual beliefs also are very religious.

Secularity, imo, is the future of humanity, even though i have a personal, individual religious curiousity, and wonder. I do not feel that most of the history of religion is worthwhile.

The more we learn about the earth, and universe, and the more we explore it, the more we see that most religions are wrong.

I think Buddhism is the only religion out there that adapts to new knowledge while still holding on to their spirituality.

I also think that the good of religion is that most of it is cherry picked wisdoms taken out of context with the whole of the religions.

Nakosis said:

(How'd we end up talking about capitalism?)
Capitalism accepts the inherent nature of man is self-interest, greed I suppose, an incorporates that into it's ideology. Capitalism works because of human self-interest, it doesn't created.

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Capitalism doesn't just accept that men can be greedy - it promotes it. Big difference. Also, whether or not capitalism "works" is highly debatable. Capitalism "works" for the rich and powerful - who become even more rich and powerful. Capitalism does not "work" well for the rest of us - the majority of whom are making starvation wages and made reliant upon public assistance. And this is by design - not by accident.

Is it flawed? Not everyone is as capable of promoting their self interest. People who are better at it will fair better than those who are not. People thrive who improve their abilities, it doesn't work well for people who either are unwilling or unable to improve themselves.

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Capitalism is not a meritocracy. If you are born into a wealthy family then you are guaranteed success no matter how incompetent you are (like Trump). However, even a meritocracy - such as described in Plato's Republic - suffers by making ones worth as a citizen and human being dependent upon what they are contributing to society. That means if you ever become seriously sick or injured, or too old, you cease to have value.

iam1me said:

Capitalism doesn't just accept that men can be greedy - it promotes it. Big difference. Also, whether or not capitalism "works" is highly debatable. Capitalism "works" for the rich and powerful - who become even more rich and powerful. Capitalism does not "work" well for the rest of us - the majority of whom are making starvation wages and made reliant upon public assistance. And this is by design - not by accident.

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Worked fine for my nephew. From an immigrant family, GED education. Rented a truck and started an moving business. Now owns a fleet of trucks, hires workers, a lot of ex-cons. Likes to help them get started with a second chance. Makes well over 6 figures now.

Capitalism is not a meritocracy. If you are born into a wealthy family then you are guaranteed success no matter how incompetent you are (like Trump). However, even a meritocracy - such as described in Plato's Republic - suffers by making ones worth as a citizen and human being dependent upon what they are contributing to society. That means if you ever become seriously sick or injured, or too old, you cease to have value.

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Being born into a wealthy family is no gurantee of success. At the most it's a guarantee of support from the family but even that's not always the case.

Contributing to society is a bad thing? One's ability to contribute to the economy is generally a good thing. More jobs, more wealth to go around. Someone has to pay one way or another to get things done. One of the problems I see is our education system. It's generally geared to create a labor force to go to work for someone else. It doesn't really promote capitalism. So kids enter adulthood unprepared for it.

adrian009 said:

Not so. Did you gain your education of Buddhism from Christians or Buddhists?

Buddha has taught:

If the three ways of practice are analyzed, they will reveal the eightfold noble path, the four viewpoints to be considered, the four right procedures, the five faculties of power to be employed, and the perfection of six practices.

The Noble Eightfold Path refers to right view, right thought, right speech, right behavior, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration.
Right View means to thoroughly understand the Fourfold Truth, to believe in the law of cause and effect and not to be deceived by appearances and desires.
Right Thought means the resolution not to cherish desires, not to be greedy, not to be angry, and not to do any harmful deed
Right Speech means the avoidance of lying words, idle words, abusive words, and double tongues.
Right Behavior means not to destroy any life, not to steal, or not to commit adultery.
Right Livelihood means to avoid any life that would bring shame.
Right Effort means to try to do one's best diligently toward the right direction.
Right Mindfulness means to maintain a pure and thoughtful mind.
Right Concentration means to keep the mind right and tranquil for its conce ntration, seeking to realize the mind's pure essence.

http://www.e4thai.com/e4e/images/pdf/theteachingofbuddha.pdf

How is any of His Holiness Buddha's Teaching a rejection of doing good?

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You can find that directly from the pali (accesstoinsight.org and suttacentral.com) since each nun and monk (and authority) has their own views and commentary.

Unlike christianity, monks and nuns don't surpass the Dharma. You can search on the website it has a LOT on the Truths.

Mahayana

I think you said you sometimes go to Amita buddhist temple. They are more "deity influence's" than others. (Mind you amita buddhism doesn't represent all buddhist lines of thought) dali lama has a tibetan view which is not at all amita.

Mahayana Buddhist Sutras In English
Mahayana sutras.
A Complete Buddhist Sutra Collection

Reference purposes. In Buddhism it is not/edit sutta/sutra-scriptura. Got to translate it in your own words to get a sense of what they talk about. Practice is even better. Guru is even better.

(Just responding to the OP)

I very much enjoy learning about other faiths. It helps me better understand and love the people who have different beliefs as I. It gives me different perspectives on things, whether it's a "that's really cool" perspective or "that's a horrible idea". It pushes me to grow in my understanding of others, the world, and myself internally.

I would 100% recommend others learn about all sorts of faiths.

Nakosis said:

Worked fine for my nephew. From an immigrant family, GED education. Rented a truck and started an moving business. Now owns a fleet of trucks, hires workers, a lot of ex-cons. Likes to help them get started with a second chance. Makes well over 6 figures now.

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Cudos to your nephew- but a success story here and there doesn't negate the reality of the economy.

Being born into a wealthy family is no gurantee of success. At the most it's a guarantee of support from the family but even that's not always the case.

Contributing to society is a bad thing? One's ability to contribute to the economy is generally a good thing. More jobs, more wealth to go around. Someone has to pay one way or another to get things done. One of the problems I see is our education system. It's generally geared to create a labor force to go to work for someone else. It doesn't really promote capitalism. So kids enter adulthood unprepared for it.

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Being born into wealth means you are born into success. In fact, the vast majority of wealth in the economy is not created, but inherited.

Also more jobs does not mean more wealth to go around. Trickle down economics has been shown time and again to be false; a lie like the rest of conservative talking points.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with working for someone else. It does promote capitalism: if everyone works for themselves, then businesses can't grow beyond your labor force of one.

Audie said:

Once a person has seen that there are so many
inmcompatible exclusive "truths" out there, with
infinite sub variations, they might begin to wodner
how it is t hey got so lucky as to be in the right one, and
if they think a little longer, begin to realize the
whole religious /supernatural thing is just make believe.

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Sometimes we can’t see the wood for the trees so we stop looking. However the truth like wood is everywhere and in every religion.

iam1me said:

Not all people are greedy - that is a choice. Capitalism is only one of many possible economic systems - one that focuses upon personal gain without consideration for others, which is what makes it greedy. A better approach is socialism.

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So socialism isn’t flawed?

Relating this back to the OP question and learning about other faiths, what does your faith say about capitalism and socialism? Don’t some Christians prefer capitalism to socialism?

CG Didymus said:

How does the Baha'i Faith expect to prevent greed?

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By the promotion of spiritual values as with all faiths. Greed is contrary to living in accordance with the highest Teaching of any genuine faith.

CG Didymus said:

And doesn't the Baha'i Faith support the abolishing of the extremes of wealth and poverty?

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That’s correct but it’s not all the Baha’i Faith taught including justice and compassion.

CG Didymus said:

? And how do they feel about socialized medicine?

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Although Baha’is don’t have a statement about socialised medicine the provision of high quality education and healthcare is consistent with a just fair society. Depriving those who are poor of their basic needs including healthcare because they can’t afford it appears contrary to justice and compassion.

adrian009 said:

Sometimes we can’t see the wood for the trees so we stop looking. However the truth like wood is everywhere and in every religion.

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Awful vague

iam1me said:

Cudos to your nephew- but a success story here and there doesn't negate the reality of the economy.



Being born into wealth means you are born into success. In fact, the vast majority of wealth in the economy is not created, but inherited.

Also more jobs does not mean more wealth to go around. Trickle down economics has been shown time and again to be false; a lie like the rest of conservative talking points.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with working for someone else. It does promote capitalism: if everyone works for themselves, then businesses can't grow beyond your labor force of one.

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Oh right, everything them cons say is false.

Honestly, people in America!

adrian009 said:

By the promotion of spiritual values as with all faiths. Greed is contrary to living in accordance with the highest Teaching of any genuine faith.



That’s correct but it’s not all the Baha’i Faith taught including justice and compassion.



Although Baha’is don’t have a statement about socialised medicine the provision of high quality education and healthcare is consistent with a just fair society. Depriving those who are poor of their basic needs including healthcare because they can’t afford it appears contrary to justice and compassion.

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You know, even though I use tribal religions in a negative way, like throwing people into volcanoes 'cause their god said so, I think it's important to say that tribal people all seem to have taken very good care of their people... other than the ones that got sacrificed. But, I'm sure their are many that didn't have human sacrifices in their beliefs. And those people had a religion that was a more complete and total part of everyday life in the community.

But then, back on the negative side, most of the religion was very mythical and filled with superstition. But I think that was part of why it worked. People were scared to break the taboos. Or, they were afraid evil spirits would get them if they went against the ways of their religion. Or, it would hurt the community.

Because of science, I think, many people today lost their respect for religion..And see it as myth and superstition. Like Christians fearing that the devil is out to get them. Or, even like God is going to get them if they don't do what their religion says. Who believes that anymore? But, even more important, is how many religious people still feel 100% that those things are real? So, I think they are more likely to compromise the strict laws of their religion, because in some ways they don't fear God, or the devil, like they did in the past. Which is good, except with more people losing their religion, many are turning to selfish inclinations and not caring so much as to how they hurt others.

So now, with the Baha'i Faith, you can't scare people with an angry God that will punish people and cast them into hell. So will the Baha'i Faith succeed at getting people to do what's right, just because it is the right thing to do? The other problem is will they get Baha'is to believe all the laws are the right thing to do? 'Cause I know a few laws I'll probably never be able to abide by.

Audie said:

Awful vague

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Yeah, I thought it was "forest for the trees" or something. But, you are in luck. I can explain it. The wood is there all around you in the trees. But, it is hidden by the bark. If you chop down the tree and strip the bark away... you find the truth, or the wood, or whatever you were looking for. I guess?

Audie said:

Awful vague

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If you study the sacred writings that relate to Jesus, Buddha and even Muhammad you will find they use stories and parables to convey Their Teachings. Ever wondered why?

Matthew 13:10-13

Vinayaka said:

No. Not all people believe that. Many folks believe there are many valid paths or faiths. It`s a misconception often tossed about.

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True.

CG Didymus said:

Yeah, I thought it was "forest for the trees" or something. But, you are in luck. I can explain it. The wood is there all around you in the trees. But, it is hidden by the bark. If you chop down the tree and strip the bark away... you find the truth, or the wood, or whatever you were looking for. I guess?

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My Mom taught English lit, you are overexplaining the obvious.

I get it. The problem is a lack of content.

adrian009 said:

If you study the sacred writings that relate to Jesus, Buddha and even Muhammad you will find they use stories and parables to convey Their Teachings. Ever wondered why?

Matthew 13:10-13

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Illiterate unsophisticated audience