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Abortion question.

U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
KenS said:
Paradise is not Heaven. Paradise was a holding place until the resurrection.
Heaven was after the resurrection.
Click to expand...

Right, I agree Paradise is Not Heaven because the beautiful paradisical Garden of Eden was here on Earth.
Biblical hell (grave) is the temporary holding place until Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years. Biblical hell (grave) ends up empty as per Revelation 20:13-14.
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' (resurrected) out of temporary hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell. Thus, hell and death will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26.
Those Not resurrected to Heaven can be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Deo Vindice said:
During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?
Click to expand...

At least I can say that according to the Bible, entering the Kingdom of heaven doesn’t depend on is person baptized.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Right, I agree Paradise is Not Heaven because the beautiful paradisical Garden of Eden was here on Earth.
Biblical hell (grave) is the temporary holding place until Resurrection Day meaning Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years. Biblical hell (grave) ends up empty as per Revelation 20:13-14.
After everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up ' (resurrected) out of temporary hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell. Thus, hell and death will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26.
Those Not resurrected to Heaven can be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11.
Click to expand...

Well... we can have a theological debate on that. We will find out for sure in the time to come. But I don't agree with your position.

When Jesus rose from the dead he too "captivity captive" with him. Eph 4:8

The resurrection was so powerful that as he took those who were in Paradise to Heaven that some physically resurrected from the dead: Matt 27:
52 And the graves were opened; and manybodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out ofthe graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city,and appeared unto many.

but all of that is another story,.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
KenS said:
Well... we can have a theological debate on that. We will find out for sure in the time to come. But I don't agree with your position.
When Jesus rose from the dead he too "captivity captive" with him. Eph 4:8
The resurrection was so powerful that as he took those who were in Paradise to Heaven that some physically resurrected from the dead: Matt 27:
52 And the graves were opened; and manybodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out ofthe graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city,and appeared unto many.
but all of that is another story,.
Click to expand...

It was living people who came out the graves (cemetery) ' after ' Jesus was resurrected.
Those living people appeared unto many.
Jesus was Not, Not resurrected the day he died. Jesus went to the grave at death - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
The 'day-of-death earthquake' caused the dead bodies (corpses ) to appear ( arose ) above ground.
So, those of Matthew chapter 27 were Not resurrected people.
That is why the ' future tense' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

Those ' gifts in men ' of Ephesians 4:7-8 are the gifts of Ephesians 4:11-12 given to living people.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
It was living people who came out the graves (cemetery) ' after ' Jesus was resurrected.
Those living people appeared unto many.
Jesus was Not, Not resurrected the day he died. Jesus went to the grave at death - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
The 'day-of-death earthquake' caused the dead bodies (corpses ) to appear ( arose ) above ground.
So, those of Matthew chapter 27 were Not resurrected people.
That is why the ' future tense' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

Those ' gifts in men ' of Ephesians 4:7-8 are the gifts of Ephesians 4:11-12 given to living people.
Click to expand...

No... graves are not living people.

Yes, those resurrected appeared unto many

I never said Jesus was resurrected the same day (the scripture was a compilation of death and resurrection - not one day"

The ear quake was when Jesus died. Matthew 27 was, as it said, "those who slept" = dead

And, yes, there is another resurrection,... actually, more than 1 if you study Revelation.
 
Sir Doom

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
URAVIP2ME said:
An inquiring mind wants to know so it should make one wonder.
People I find often believe non-biblical descriptions of a religious-myth Hell as opposed to biblical Hell.
The Bible's Hell is simply mankind's stone-cold temporary grave for the sleeping dead.
Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach sleep in death -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4.
So, the Bible's description of what biblical Hell is like is that -> the dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5.
Correspondingly, the description of Heaven is the Seat of Government at Revelation 9:5-10: 20:6; 2:10.
Those called to Heaven have two (2) jobs to do:
* They serve mankind living on Earth in the capacity as kings taking care of governmental responsibilities.
* They serve mankind living on Earth in the capacity as priests taking care of spiritual duties toward mankind.

What the wicked get is as Psalms 92:7 says that the 'wicked will be destroyed forever'. -Proverbs 2:21-22.
We all are given two choices at 2 Peter 3:9. If we do Not wish to 'perish' (be destroyed) then we should ' repent'.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's fine. Christians believe lots of things that aren't in the Bible. Go figure.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
1213 said:
At least I can say that according to the Bible, entering the Kingdom of heaven doesn’t depend on is person baptized.
Click to expand...

I find according to the Bible it's the 'meek people who will inherit the Earth' that does Not depend on baptism.
However, those of Revelation 2:10; 5:9-10; 20:6 like those of Luke 22:28-30 are baptized followers.
They are like the ones of 2 Timothy 2:12 who if they suffer, they will also reign with Jesus.... (heavenly reign)
So, yes, entering the Kingdom of Heaven does depend on baptism.
For the humble meek "thy kingdom come" means heavenly kingdom blessings come to Earth for them.
The blessing benefits of Revelation 22:2 for them. That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come! We do Not pray to be taken up to the kingdom, nor pray to be taken away to the kingdom, but for the kingdom to come, come to bring heavenly conditions to Earth such as mentioned at 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 when enemy death will be No more on Earth - Isaiah 25:8.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sir Doom said:
Yes, that's fine. Christians believe lots of things that aren't in the Bible. Go figure.
Click to expand...

I'd like to add it's 'so-called Christians' (as in apostate Christendom) believing un-biblical things as being Scripture.
So, genuine ' wheat ' Christians do believe the things that are in the Bible, whereas the fake 'weed/tares' Christians do not.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
KenS said:
No... graves are not living people.
Yes, those resurrected appeared unto many
I never said Jesus was resurrected the same day (the scripture was a compilation of death and resurrection - not one day"
The ear quake was when Jesus died. Matthew 27 was, as it said, "those who slept" = dead
And, yes, there is another resurrection,... actually, more than 1 if you study Revelation.
Click to expand...

Right, graves are Not living people, but dead people in the graves who know nothing but sleep.
The people of Matthew 27:52 are 'dead people' because No one was resurrected before Jesus.
So, those of verse 53 are living people because they come out of the ' cemetery ' ( grave yard ) ' AFTER' Jesus was resurrected.
Jesus was Not resurrected they day of Matthew 27:52.
Any thoughts about 1 Corinthians 15:20,23 _______
 
Sir Doom

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
URAVIP2ME said:
I'd like to add it's 'so-called Christians' (as in apostate Christendom) believing un-biblical things as being Scripture.
So, genuine ' wheat ' Christians do believe the things that are in the Bible, whereas the fake 'weed/tares' Christians do not.
Click to expand...

What a Christian should or shouldn't do in order to qualify is not my concern. That's for y'all to determine in your own individual ways. But I do mean all Christians believe things that are not in the Bible.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Sir Doom said:
....... But I do mean all Christians believe things that are not in the Bible.
Click to expand...

I am wondering if you are referring to believing about 'secular ' things not found in the Bible _____
As far as Scripture, Christians believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that ALL Scripture is from God and beneficial.....
Jesus believed that Scripture is: religious truth (John 17:17).
What's outside of Scripture but just taught as being Scripture is: religious falsehood.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Right, graves are Not living people, but dead people in the graves who know nothing but sleep.
The people of Matthew 27:52 are 'dead people' because No one was resurrected before Jesus.
Click to expand...
Definition differences here. Abraham was very much speaking when Lazarus was there in Paradise with him talking to the rich man.

'
So, those of verse 53 are living people because they come out of the ' cemetery ' ( grave yard ) ' AFTER' Jesus was resurrected.
Click to expand...
I believe that is what I said

Jesus was Not resurrected they day of Matthew 27:52.
Click to expand...
You have a timeline problem here in reading this. It was a three day recap.

They arose after the resurrection .
Religious Forums


Any thoughts about 1 Corinthians 15:20,23 _______
Click to expand...

Actually, this is a great question and there are two sides of the aisle for this one.

I personally follow the following and for the reasons stated

Is soul sleep’ biblical? When we die do we go to heaven immediately or at the second coming?
 
Sir Doom

Sir Doom

Cooler than most of you
URAVIP2ME said:
I am wondering if you are referring to believing about 'secular ' things not found in the Bible _____
As far as Scripture, Christians believe 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that ALL Scripture is from God and beneficial.....
Jesus believed that Scripture is: religious truth (John 17:17).
What's outside of Scripture but just taught as being Scripture is: religious falsehood.
Click to expand...

I do mean both secularly and doctrinally.

John 17:17 does not say:

What's outside of Scripture but just taught as being Scripture is: religious falsehood.
Click to expand...

That is doctrine from you, not John 17:17.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
KenS said:
Actually, no. There is no scripture to support that position. King David's first-born was not baptized but went to Heaven.


I would change churches. IMO. This is an unsupported religious hogwash. IMO.
Click to expand...
 
TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

TheBannerofHomuraAkemi

Active Member
Deo Vindice said:
During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?
Click to expand...

All babies go to heaven, because they can't comprehend right and wrong. So how can they understand salvation?
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Kelly of the Phoenix said:
I kinda did that. Jesus said if your right arm causes you to sin, you should cut it off. I figured churches were filled with backstabbing gossiping harpies, so I left. :)
Click to expand...
What? Those backstabbing gossipers were causing you to sin? :D
Good one.

Next time, perhaps try this one... 2 Thessalonians 3:13-15
Works even better.:)

I understand what you are saying though, but for me personally, I think the prime thing that should determine if we stay or leave, is the teachings. That's why it is important to know if what is being taught is scripturally based.
Sometimes God may let - and he does all the time - bad grow among good, which allows us to build godly qualities, as we put up with, and endure bad. James 1:2-4

Remember, there can never be a perfect church, because it is made up of imperfect people. Even the apostles had to put up with backbiters and gossipers, and worst, but they stuck around. 2 Thessalonians 3:11

Remember how they were tested on one occasion?
John 6:60-69
60 When they heard this, many of his disciples said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble you? 62 What, therefore, if you should see the Son of man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning those who did not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 Because of this, many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67 So Jesus said to the Twelve: “You do not want to go also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. 69 We have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God.”

Jesus apparently used that opportunity to test their loyalty.
So as long as we have a fairly good understanding of the Bible, we would be able to know if someone is speaking something unscriptural, or if what they are saying is Biblical.
...and we stay put. When the gossipers are gone, or they shape up - either, or, we would still be there. ;)
 
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