Should I Become A Jehovah's Witness?

Oeste · Aug 9, 2018

Deeje said:
So you see Acts 1:8 as applying to those who never go out in the "witness" work that Jesus assigned in Matthew 28:19-20?

No. I see you confusing Acts 1:8 with Matthew 28:19-20.

Acts 1:8 is about witnessing to the far corners of the earth. Matthew 28:19-20 is the great commission, where we are to preach the good news throughout the earth. Neither verse commands us to become scribes and publishers.

Deeje said:
So "Go" means stay?

There is no mention of “Go” in Acts 1:8, and no mention of “Stay” in Matthew 28:19-20. You’re obfuscating the two verses.

This is fairly easy to exegete Deeje. Look at Acts 1:4. Jesus tells them NOT to leave Jerusalem:

Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized witha water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

So they are ALREADY in Jerusalem.

Now look at Acts 1:8. It tells them they will be his witness…where? Is one of those places Jerusalem? How can they “Go” to Jerusalem if they’re already there?

Jesus is not telling them to disperse here. He’s simply telling them what will happen after they receive the Holy Spirit. They will be his witnesses (not publishers) in all part of the earth. The Great Commission is where you will find your “Go”.

Deeje said:
It means just being a good Christian to others and that's enough?

A Christian is one who follows Christ. Christ followed his Father. If being a good Christian is not “good enough” then how could you possibly claim that Christ died for someone else’s sin?

Deeje said:
Acts 1:8..."but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (NASB)

"To the most distant part of the earth", means that Christians are to sit in a building to which they hope people will come?

Christianity has already reached “the most distant part of the earth” Deeje. That’s why you see a church with Christians just “sitting there”.

Your results finding a Kingdom Hall or a Jehovah Witness in these "distant parts" will vary.

Deeje said:
How does that fit Jesus' instruction to "search" for these ones? (Matthew 10:11-15)

It mean "Seek and ye shall find" is true.

Deeje said:
If you were "lost", how would you like people to "search" for you? Sitting in a building waiting for you to stumble in?

The Christian charity I mentioned earlier? We made deliveries.

Oeste · Aug 9, 2018

Deeje said:
Nice try. There was a good reason why Jesus was specifically sent only to the Jews. They were given first opportunity to become heirs of the Kingdom, because of God's promise to Abraham, but after Jesus' death, the Apostle Peter was sent to the first Gentiles to include them in the Christian arrangement. Paul was appointed as an 'apostle to the Gentile nations' (Acts 9:15; Ephesians 3:5-6)

Nice try moving the goal posts Deeje. You stated we are to preach a specific message and you pointed to Matthew 10:11-15. This was “the Kingdom is near” and not the “gospel of the Kingdom” message. Your Organization still preaches “the Kingdom is near” when Jesus specifically commanded us to preach the entire gospel, and not simply this one message.

Deeje said:
Please tell me what the good news about God's Kingdom is. Let me hear it from you.

Good News of the Kingdom:

What it is:

The good news is a message of redemption (Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14; 20-22), repentance (Acts 2:38, Mat 4:17) and restoration (2 Corinthians 5:17, Act 3:21, Titus 2:11) offered freely to all who believe in Christ. In Christ we have redemption, repentance and restoration because a sinless Jesus lived, died and rose on the 3rd day for our sins, allowing all who have sinned to be “born again” in Christ.

What it’s not:

The good news is not an endless barrage of changing doctrine and failed prophetic Armageddon dates, published as the latest inside scoop to the word of God from an Organization headquartered in Brooklyn, New York.

Deeje said:
LOL What makes you think so? You really think that applies to Christians now? If you read the passage in context and understand that Jews were under obligation to be hospitable to strangers, you would then understand why Jesus rescinded the recommendation later. (Luke 22:35-36)

Well I'm glad you read it. We can now put this “Kingdom is near” message you claimed earlier to rest and get busy with the "gospel of the Kingdom" message that Jesus wanted preached to the Gentiles.

Oeste · Aug 9, 2018

Deeje said:
We preach that the Kingdom will solve all of mankind's problems as its brought out in Revelation 21:2-4. What better news could we bring them?

Your “good news” was “bad news” Deeje. Jesus’ “Parousia” of 1874 didn’t occur. The promised physical kingdom of 1878 never materialized. The list goes on and on…all in the name of Jehovah.

Remember when the “Faithful Discreet Slave” attempted to stuff a promise Jehovah never uttered into His mouth? It appeared on your Awake! magazine as a promise from our Creator.

“Christendom” told you it wasn’t true, but your Organization went right on publishing, issue after issue, year after year.

Scripture tells us "There was no falsehood found in their mouths". How do you reconcile this with the GB?

It’s not “good news” to spread “false news”. All it does is suggest God doesn’t keep His promises.

Deeje said:
The fact that Jesus and the apostles kept the coming of the kingdom as an imminent event is actually for our benefit. As the "sacred secret" unfolded, Jesus' disciples began to discern more accurately the details about the Kingdom and when we could expect it....not the day or hour, but Jesus told us to look for the "sign" of his "presence". (Matthew 24:3)

It was the WT and not Jesus that kept the coming of the physical kingdom as an “imminent event”:

20Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (Luke 17)

Deeje said:
The light on the path got brighter and brighter. (Proverbs 4:18)

1884, 1914, 1925, 1940…all these dates went dark Deeje, not bright. They got darker and darker as the expected year got closer. It was never a bright idea for the Organization to preach these dates.

Deeje said:
You are free to ask any reasonable question you like here, Oeste. Not many of us are walking Bible encyclopedias you know.

LOL, this is good to know. I'm certainly no walking Bible encyclopedia either.

Deeje said:
Its Christendom's teachings that I find logically inconsistent....but that is just due to my years of research....not just WT but with many other resources as well. I use the Tanach as well as Strong's Concordance and the Mounce Intelinear....all very good guides.

I consider your resources excellent.

Deeje · Aug 9, 2018

There is so much twisted nonsense in these posts that I don't know where to start. :facepalm:

Oeste said:
I don’t see this command ignored by the churches at all. There are over a billion Christians on the planet, thousands upon thousands of churches, all searching for new members, not rejecting them, all offering bible studies for those wishing to learn.

And all these "Christians" are teaching different things.....you think this fits the criteria of 1 Corinthians 1:10? You've got to be joking! Christianity doesn't come in 'brands'....in the final analysis, there is only wheat and weeds......so we'd better know the difference.

Oeste said:
Well first, it would be hard to find a Christian in a Kingdom Hall. Only your anointed, the 144,000, are considered Christians by the Watchtower. The rest of you are considered associates of Christians.

You see, this is the nonsense I was talking about. All in our brotherhood are "Christians".....some just have a different destination. There are two groups mentioned in Revelation 7...those who are seen in heaven with Jesus who are a finite number (144,000)....and those who also acknowledge Jesus as their savior, but who are not numbered.

There are also two separate resurrections....some will go to heaven to rule with Jesus and act as priests for redeemed mankind. (Revelation 20:6) These are resurrected "first"....others are to be resurrected too but back to this life on earth. Jesus calls them out of their graves. (John 5:28-29) What is the purpose of the 1000 year reign of Christ?

Oeste said:
Secondly, Jehovah Witnesses don't preach, they publish. Jehovah Witnesses are called publishers, not preachers. You publish whatever your Governing Board preaches. If you're not sure about this check your yearbook. It's one of the few things the Watchtower has been consistent about.

I think that perhaps it is you who need to do their homework.

The origen of the word "publisher" dates back to 1425–75; late Middle English: it means....."one who proclaims publicly".

It also means....

to announce formally or officially; proclaim; promulgate.
to make publicly or generally known."

the definition of publisher

......so we are "proclaimers" of the good news. The churches are not. Jesus sent his disciples out to preach and they would continue to do so right up to the "end" of the present system of things. (Matthew 24:14)
The churches are MIA as far as I can see.

Oeste said:
I’ve already told you what the good news is. The word “gospel” means “good news”. As such, it is the entirety of the message and not simply part of the message.

What do you tell people about the Kingdom? Since Jesus taught us to pray for the Kingdom to "come"....how does it "come"? (Daniel 2:44) We are not praying to go to the kingdom, but for the Kingdom to "come" to us. When it does, God's will can finally be "done, on earth as it is in heaven".....please tell us how that works in Christendom's worldview.
Since you still cling to an erroneous understanding of Luke 17:20-21, I am wondering how it all fits?

Oeste · Aug 13, 2018

Deeje said:
And all these "Christians" are teaching different things.....

The key doctrines of orthodox Christianity are pretty much the same. However the Watchtower admits they teach a different gospel than other Churches (Feb 1, 2006 Watchtower, page 25, para 14).

Deeje said:
you think this fits the criteria of 1 Corinthians 1:10? You've got to be joking!

I'm sure there were plenty of folk pointing out Corinthians 1:10 to Charles Taze Russell.

Deeje said:
Christianity doesn't come in 'brands'....in the final analysis, there is only wheat and weeds......so we'd better know the difference.

Wheat and tares are separated by angels, not by religious affiliation.[/QUOTE]

Deeje said:
You think that JW's have the freedom to preach in nations like Syria?

I’m saying if you’re bold enough to refer to Christian churches as “poison” be bold enough to refer to Jewish synagogues Muslims mosques as the same.

Look, I’m sure Witnesses call Christians churches “poison” in a very loving way.

The illustrations the WT publishes of destroyed Christian churches with dead members scattered around are simply meant to convey the urgency of getting out of "Christendom" before it’s too late, correct?

All I’m asking is Why don’t WT publications convey this love with equal fervor to Muslims and Jews? Where are the illustrations of burning mosques urging Muslim to get out before its too late? Where are illustrations of ruined synagogues struck by meteors hurled by Jehovah? Do you think only the Christian nations will be affected when Armageddon comes? Will a Jew or Muslim be able to say “If only they had shown us the urgency the same way they showed Christendom, we might have been saved!”?

You asked if I thought JW's had freedom to preach in Syria. I'm not sure why this is important. Did Jehovah forbid you from going "door to door" in Syria? Didn't you just mock Christians for sitting in churches waiting for the lost to "stumble in"?

Here’s a golden opportunity for Witnesses to show the world how early Christians went “door to door” in “distant lands”, all the while facing fierce persecution!

I know JW’s in Syria aren’t waiting in their homes hoping the lost will “stumble in” for a free bible study, are they? Of course not! They’ll go “door to door”, winning over Al-Qaeda and Taliban rebel alike, just like the early Christians did with those pesky “throw ‘em to the lions” pagans.

lukethethird · Aug 13, 2018

Yes, become a JW, but don't blame me when your whole world comes crashing down.

Oeste · Aug 13, 2018

Deeje said:
LOL you really think its going to be like that? Tell me where you think those 500 hundred have gone and what they have been doing for the last 3,000 years?

Hasn’t the WT already told us? When a person dies two amazing, mutually exclusive things occur:

1. They cease to exist (annihilationism)and

2. They become “unconscious”(soul sleep), both at the same time.

According to the WT, the body that dies is NOT the body that is resurrected. Instead, when you die God stores your memory until He’s ready to have you recreated in a new body. The original you “ceased to exist”. It’s the new copy, the recreated replica of your memories that gets placed in a new body that gets to claim your reward in the new paradise system.

Of course your memory has no memory of anything that happened between the time you died and the moment it was placed into its new created body, so all 3,000 years appear to have passed in a blink of an eye.

To avoid the prospect of ceasing to exist you must physically survive through Armageddon.

Another problem besides "Any copy of you is not the original you" is that there is no spiritual regeneration in the Watchtower scenario. You get a new body but your consciousness is the same. Your replica has the exact same hopes, dreams, and aspirations you had before you died, and they won't change until hundreds of years of bible study. So if you hated blacks, whites, Mormons, gays, Northerners, Southerners, Hittites, Egyptians, Jews, broccoli, chores, math or disco, your replica hates them now.

For example, Amir, blew himself up in an Iraq supermarket, taking 100 people with him. He was never offered a "bible" study by a JW before he died, so he is recreated from God’s memory and placed into a new, perfect body.

Amir pops into existence, naked and alone, but then several hundred people, all naked, pop up next to him. Amir has never seen such perfectly formed women before and shouts “God is great… and Mohammed is his prophet!” believing that at least 72 of the perfectly formed and recreated women are now his wives bestowed by God for his martyrdom. The rest of you are simply his slaves.

But you have the latest publication and you’re eager to get Amir into one of the Watchtower’s newly formed public re-education camps where he can learn to acquiesce to a new study or be killed by God at the end of a thousand years.

You're just about to announce yourself to Amir when he snatches the Watchtower out of your hand and with a wave of his welcomes you to paradise. “Here”, he says, eyeing you up and down, “there is no need for a woman to read”!

When you really think about it, what possibly could go wrong?

Oeste · Aug 13, 2018

Deeje said:
OMG! That is just funny. Here we are going door to door doing house appraisals so that we can drag out bodies and move into their houses.

At that point I thought I had heard everything too, but what to do with the bodies had become a big issue among Witnesses especially as 1975 approached. My study instructor pointed out the house he hoped Jehovah would spare during Armageddon. I guess he expected me to pick one out for myself.

Spared homes was never an official WT teaching but it did become part of Witness lore, more like “…a saying among the brothers”. I wasn’t the only one. Kyria Abrahams talks about it in her book:

Deeje said:
Now I've heard everything. and we've moved on now?

Yes you moved on, right into anti-matter:

I'm surprised you would forget about this so quickly Deeje.

Oeste said:
Your children are not repeatedly taught they could die in a car crash because their parents fell asleep at the wheel, but they are repeatedly taught falling asleep during a meeting could lead to death at global Armageddon.

Deeje said:
Are you for real?

>

Did you miss this? Fall asleep during study? While a congregation of parents looked on, these kids were told that falling asleep during a meeting could lead to missing out on "life saving" information and their death at Armageddon!

Deeje · Aug 14, 2018

@Oeste it is obvious where you get your information.....you seem as if you have your nose in the trough looking for garbage to twist and criticize from the traitors who put it there for your avid consumption. Your disdain for Jehovah's Witnesses is nothing new and you never cease to disappoint when it comes to spreading the kind of slanderous things you post. I am guessing that if Jesus' opposers had had access to the internet, he too would have copped even more slander than he did by word of mouth. The campaign against him by those of his own religious faith led to his Jewish 'brothers' clambering for his execution.....that is how much they were led to hate him and his followers. But nothing they said about him was true....it was insinuations, twisted half truths and lies. You are just history repeating...fulfilling prophesy even....aren't you thrilled? (2 Peter 3:3-7; John 15:18-21; 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

There is a problem with digging back in the last century for your misinformation however....we do not stagnate in our understanding but continue to learn, grow and move on from things we may have have had an immature understanding about. Growing up takes time. I notice that you seldom post anything recent. Maybe the apostates are running out of ammo? :shrug:

Bit sad when you have nothing new to draw from....unless you make it into something it isn't.

The Caleb and Sophia videos are fairly recent and something that our young ones watch as an important teaching tool for them.
We live in a visual age and kids learn more quickly from these videos than from dry words in a book. Most meetings these days require an iPad or tablet. Hard copy is something we seldom use any more.

But what was the lesson in the video for the kids? Our meetings are our education centers, therefore, to us they are just like school....not church. Do we expect our kids to pay attention in school? Would the teachers be impressed if the kids fell asleep in class? What if during a lesson, the kids just played with their toys and ignored the teacher altogether? There would be a note sent home to the parents....no?

For us, our Bible education is not something we can treat with disrespect. It is God's classroom and families attend and contribute to the lesson for the benefit of all in attendance. Our young ones are a vital part of our congregations and they need to take in the information along with their parents.

Was there a scriptural precedent for this....?

Deuteronomy31:11-13...."when all Israel assembles in the presence of the Lord your God at the place He chooses, you are to read this law aloud before all Israel. 12 Gather the people—men, women, children, and foreigners living within your gates—so that they may listen and learn to fear the Lord your God and be careful to follow all the words of this law. 13 Then their children who do not know the law will listen and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess.”

Was it important to God that the children listen and learn? Apparently so. Bad habits can develop early and children who fail to appreciate the educational value of the meetings can grow into adults who don't really listen either....these ones eventually become so bored that they drift away. It happens, and parents have to be vigilant that their kids understand what is being taught. That way, when it comes time to make their own decision to serve God or not...it will be according to what they know....not what they don't know because they never listened.

Oeste · Aug 14, 2018

Deeje said:
@Oeste it is obvious where you get your information.....you seem as if you have your nose in the trough looking for garbage to twist and criticize from the traitors who put it there for your avid consumption.

The information comes from WT publications and productions Deeje. Perhaps the reason they make your own public talks and publications public is because they want all of us to have the same "life saving" information you do, but before anyone becomes a Jehovah Witness. It only causes consternation when you get it afterwards, for all parties concerned.

Deeje said:
Your disdain for Jehovah's Witnesses is nothing new and you never cease to disappoint when it comes to spreading the kind of slanderous things you post.

I saw nothing "slanderous" about what I posted. What I am trying to understand is why Witnesses look at you with disbelief when you mention these things.

I want to make this clear:

If some Catholic or Protestant church peppered my neighborhood with illustrations of Kingdom Halls being blown apart by "righteous Christians" or a "righteous God" , Witnesses lying strewn in the street with fellow Christians "rejoicing" I would take exception to it, just like I take exception here.

I would expect you to be "disappointed" the moment I fail to take exception to it, not because I do.

Deeje said:
I am guessing that if Jesus' opposers had had access to the internet, he too would have copped even more slander than he did by word of mouth. The campaign against him by those of his own religious faith led to his Jewish 'brothers' clambering for his execution.....that is how much they were led to hate him and his followers. But nothing they said about him was true....it was insinuations, twisted half truths and lies. You are just history repeating...fulfilling prophesy even....aren't you thrilled? (2 Peter 3:3-7; John 15:18-21; 2 Timothy 3:1-5)

Jesus stood by everything he stated Deeje. He didn't tell us one thing today and a "new truth" tomorrow.

Deeje said:
There is a problem with digging back in the last century for your misinformation however....we do not stagnate in our understanding but continue to learn, grow and move on from things we may have have had an immature understanding about.

I have no problem with that, but if "new truth" never contradicts "old truth", otherwise it was never "truth" at all but came from some other source.

Look, your spouse comes home late one night and you ask where he was. "Sorry, honey, they kept us all night at the job, we have a big project due tomorrow and everything that could go wrong did.". The next morning he tells you he was out with Jack and his friends at the pub, and even later he tells you he went bowling. When you ask him why the discrepancy he tells you "the light gets brighter and brighter". Yes, what he told you was "old light" but you should accept the "new light" he gives you now.

Would you accept this explanation as logical and truthful or would you begin to have doubts?

Deeje said:
Deuteronomy31:11-13...."when all Israel assembles in the presence of the Lord your God at the place He chooses, you are to read this law aloud before all Israel. 12 Gather the people—men, women, children, and foreigners living within your gates—so that they may listen and learn to fear the Lord your God and be careful to follow all the words of this law. 13 Then their children who do not know the law will listen and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess.”

Instilling a fear of God in our children is scriptural, but Instilling a fear of "falling asleep at meetings" is not. Besides, the information missed had they fallen asleep is likely to have changed anyways, and if not will certainly be repeated, time and time again, at a future meeting. There's no need to threaten your kids with death.

Deeje · Aug 14, 2018

@Oeste you are free to believe whatever you wish about us and our teachings, but you never seem to be able to explain why the "Christians" in Christendom are not going out to "search" for those who are lost? (Matthew 10:11-15) The all important preaching of the Kingdom was to continue right up until the end....so where are they? It was part of the sign Jesus gave to identify the "end of the age". (Matthew 24:3; 14) He was going to back up this work...so where are they?

Jesus will judge all of us in that regard because it was a command...not a suggestion. Actions speak louder than words.

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
Well, I'm kind of going over the pros and cons. Some of which involve my own imperfections while some the imperfections of an organized religion. I tend to be overly critical. I can remember studying with them and thinking it was the greatest thing but at time wore on I could feel a weight upon me when I woke up in the morning that sounds like descriptions of depression I've heard. It literally felt like a weight pressing down on me preventing me from getting out of bed in the morning. The extremely real feeling that something wasn't right. I was told it was demonic. Perhaps it was. It was a horrible feeling that increased until I ended the study. Was it psychosomatic? I don't know.

In one word--NO! Those feelings that you got in the morning were definitely no demonic. I would say that those feelings were your subconscious screaming at you to run away as fast as you can.

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
I'm not nor have I ever been a baptized Jehovah's Witness. My beliefs are heavily influenced by their literature, which I use as a study guide and my beliefs are very similar, but I'm not in total agreement with them on everything. The question is, is that unusual? I think not. So long as you don't promote counter beliefs and cause division, you keep them to yourself and you agree with the majority of important points, I'm sure there are JW's who don't agree with all of the JW teachings and practices.

I was a baptized JW for 30 years, and a pioneer minister for three, until my health broke down and I had to quit the pioneer ministry.

Let me ask you this...while you might not be in total agreement with everything published in the Watchtower publications (and that does tend to change on a fairly regular basis) would you be able to teach as "truth" things being currently taught that you knew weren't true? Would you be able to go out in field service and teach others as truth what you honestly believed to be lies?

Would you be able to see the hypocrisy present in many congregations--the lack of love--the gossip--the backbiting--the social climbing--and simply try to "adjust your thinking" and blame yourself for not seeing everything as being absolutely wonderful when you knew for a fact that it was not wonderful?

These were issues that I, as a baptized JW, dealt with for years. I was brought into the religion at the age of 7, so I really didn't have much choice in the matter, but I truly did believe that the JWs were the true religion until I got older and was able to see things more clearly. That is when I had to try to ignore everything bad that I saw occurring and try to convince myself that the problem was me and that everything was all good.

After years of seeing and ignoring and rationalizing, I finally could not ignore and rationalize any longer, so I drifted away. That resulted in my being shunned simply for leaving the JW organization. Are you prepared for that?

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
That's great for you, but the sciences is to me what the Bible teachings might be to you and to me the Bible is what the sciences are to you. I have always found the sciences boring. Bible teachings I find fascinating, interesting, mind blowing stuff. Now, that's just me and you. I've know people who found both very rewarding.

As for the JW's being a cult, that's just a pejorative connotation from mainstream Christendom who have left the Bible teachings and subscribed to pagan myth and legends. I would never become part of what I see as a lie that is the modern day apostate Christendom's teachings and practices. It would be the Watchtower or nothing.

Perhaps the term "high-control religion" would resonate more with you rather than "cult"? Please check out the BITE model listing markers of high-control religions. JWs meet, in my opinion, fully 95% of those markers. Every aspect of life is controlled and those who do no conform don't have an easy time of it.

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
I'm trying to be objectionable. Baptism is relevant to me on a personal level. It's a public declaration of faith which Jesus required of his followers. Most of my objections regarding their teachings are minor. Some of the things that I mentioned are practices, for example, of study. Taking notes during a lecture, for example, to me, is counter productive. While you are scribbling in a notebook you miss most of the important stuff which if you just listened to you would better get a grasp of.

Things that I disagree with, like their practice of the so called anointed, wouldn't be problematic so long as I kept them to myself. To do so wouldn't be spiritually damaging or frustrating. I'm trying to be fair and open minded by pointing out some minor details of little significance. Most of the beliefs are the same.

Baptism in the JW organization used to be solely a dedication to Jehovah and Jesus. Now, however, there is a component where you must agree to what could only be considered to be a contract between you and the JW organization. Would you feel comfortable making that sort of dedication to a religious publishing company?

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
I was an admirer of Prince since his album 1999. Before either one of us became associated with the JW's. When he started his study with Larry Graham, I watched him. How he made changes in his life, at least he appeared to. Then I would hear him do something stupid like refusing to play a gig because they had a painting of a dragon in a mural somewhere. Have you read the book or Revelation? Seen The Watchtower's Grand Climax at hand illustrations? Then I would see photographs of him in the local Kingdom hall dressed like a pimp, and think no one else would get away with that.

One thing you will discover about JWs is that those who are rich and/or famous can pretty much do as they wish without repercussions. Prince did many things that would have gotten a regular JW disfellowshipped in a heartbeat. For instance, his association with his back-up band 3rdeyeGirl and his wearing of the sunglasses with the third eye--an occult symbol.

third eye
noun
noun: third eye; plural noun: third eyes
1.
Hinduism
the locus of occult power and wisdom in the forehead of a deity, especially the god Shiva.

Then, of course, we have Serena Williams who has done so many things that a regular JW would never be allowed to do that it boggles the mind. JWs will swear up and down that she is not baptized, but she has claimed that she goes out in field service whenever she can, and that is allowed (presumably) only for those who are following the rules as either an unbaptized publisher or a baptized JW.

Money talks in the JW organization, and it talks rather loudly.

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha said:
When I first started attending meetings I was so excited that I would get the opportunity to finally talk to someone about all of the things I was learning and was literally crushed to find out that all they were interested in was what I did for a living. I would mention something I learned and they would look at me like I had pulled a soiled diaper out of my pocket and ceremoniously dropped it on the floor. A blank, almost cautious stare. Of course, you've got to look at it from their perspective, they've been attending these silted, dry as toast meetings for years. I was new and like a crazy person.

When I attended these meetings I didn't feel the spirit of Jehovah, I felt the spirit of a corporate meeting where the big wigs are all terrified of the shareholders. The Governing Body had no spirit, they were concerned about census numbers and money.

On the other hand, I would take that over some crazy frenetic pagan induced hell and brimstone gospel hour. An unqualified life coach with a 200 dollar haircut, pimp suit and all the bling. If I wanted crazy I'd stay at home and watch the Televangelist.

The "spirit" you felt was right on the mark. Other than the public talk, the other meetings are basically corporate sales meetings where you prepare to go out and hawk literature--or at least that's what they were when I was a JW, and I doubt that they have changed much.

If you really want to connect to the majority of JWs, engage in gossip--talk about Sister So-and-So's skirt length or seeing Brother Handy come out of an adult book store. THAT should pique their interest.

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

adrian009 said:
I don't like to get involved in disputes but I'm not feeling the JW love here.

Sadly, her attitude is endemic to the JWs. Generally, a JW will not be quite as open and aboveboard about how JWs feel about anyone who disagrees in the slightest with what the JW leaders teach. As I said in a previous post, the JWs are a high-control religion, and baptized JWs must conform or they are either shunted to the side or disfellowshipped. They must conform to be accepted.

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

Cougarbear said:
Cougarbear: So, the vast majority are damned because of the actions of a few? Every organization has its bad people. Jesus had 12 apostles and one was really bad. Another a doubter without empirical evidence. Most never heard from again.

Perhaps we should consider what the JWs, themselves, have taught about this. I can recall a talk and, I'm pretty sure, a Watchtower article as well, where it was pointed out that a drop of poison in a full glass of water would make that glass of water undrinkable.

The comparison was made to "false religions" (i.e. every other religion on the face of the earth other than JWs) stating that the bad people or bad actions of even ONE person would prove that that religion was not the correct religion.

So, according to the JWs themselves, if there are "bad people" in the JW organization, that disqualifies them from being the "true religion."

Funny how their own words often come back to bite them, isn't it?

RedhorseWoman · Aug 14, 2018

PopeADope said:
Why do you compare the worship of Ba'al to the practices of most of Christendom, which adheres to the belief that there is one God?

Simple. JWs believe and teach that all religions other than theirs are false and that they worship Satan (even though they mistakenly believe that they are worshiping God.)

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