Should I Become A Jehovah's Witness?

[SomeRandom]

And that is your choice. The "Gentle Jesus" figure of the church is a myth. He was "mild tempered and lowly in heart" but not the 'mamby-pamby' all forgiving sop that he is made out to be. He could not be an appointed judge and executioner if he was weak and failed to implement God's justice.

The forgiveness he offered was conditional and had to be warranted by genuine repentance and obedience to Christ's teachings....something most people find way too difficult. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Still find it inhumane and callous to throw out disabled people and one's own child.
Perhaps that's why I favour Jesus' messages about love, peace and forgiveness. Even I'm not that much of an *******.
But you are free to follow whatever Jesus you wish.

 

[Deeje]

Correct, english is not my first language. With your above explanation it is obvious I read too much into your words. "we all" is not a fact, so Atheist etc. are excluded
"woe to those who allow it to give them an excuse not to serve the true God, whom we all must face when the final judgment comes."

What I post is the truth as I understand it from the sacred writings of my faith.

You too follow the guidance of your guru, whom you quote as well. He is a source of truth to you, just as Jehovah and Jesus are a source of truth to me. We each understand that our faith is our personal choice...the difference is that my God wants me to tell others about him. (2 Timothy 4:1-5)

The confusion came because 95+% of the Christians I met, told me "Jesus is the only way for all humans". When I asked them "In your opinion"? They replied "No that's a fact for all".
So I was quite biased by these Christians. Glad to read that you don't think that way.

I am sure they came from the same direction as myself. The Bible does not make allowance for the worship of other gods. In fact it calls all other gods "false"....a front used by the devil to deceive people. Whatever worship does not go to the "only true God" (as Jesus called his Father. John 17:3) goes to the devil by default since he is the only other "god" in this world who is vying for our worship. (Luke 4:5-8)

Truce, much better. Fighting over God I rather also avoid

God gives us free will to exercise as our hearts see fit. I am sure that fighting over God will continue as it always has from the beginning, but from the Bible, it is my belief that the battle is about to end. And I am anxious for it to finish. This divided and cruel world under the devil's control needs to cease and the promised new one to begin.....bring it on. (2 Peter 3:13)

 

[Deeje]

Still find it inhumane and callous to throw out disabled people and one's own child.

Do you know the whole story? Are you judging on one biased side of the matter? That is a foolish position to take.
The Jews did that to Jesus....remember? Would you like it done to you?

Perhaps that's why I favour Jesus' messages about love, peace and forgiveness. Even I'm not that much of an *******.

Jesus' message of love, peace and forgiveness was not unconditional....do you understand this? If there is no repentance, there can be no forgiveness. Peace comes from obedience to his teachings and love has to be for God before loyalty to any human who treats his laws with disrespect.

Matthew 10:32-38....“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me."

How does one "disown" Jesus? By deliberately disobeying his teachings. We have the whole Bible to draw from in establishing who God is, and what he requires of us. If we favor our disobedient adult child over the commands of God through his Christ, we can kiss our own lives good bye because we become complicit in the sin committed by those we allow to dwell under our roof.

I believe that you will be facing the very same Jesus at the judgment as we all are. How well do you really know him? It is in your own best interests to find out, don't you think?

But you are free to follow whatever Jesus you wish.

People can make God and Jesus into whatever suits them.....but the reality might be quite a different matter.

 

[SomeRandom]

Do you know the whole story? Are you judging on one biased side of the matter? That is a foolish position to take.
The Jews did that to Jesus....remember? Would you like it done to you?



Jesus' message of love, peace and forgiveness was not unconditional....do you understand this? If there is no repentance, there can be no forgiveness. Peace comes from obedience to his teachings and love has to be for God before loyalty to any human who treats his laws with disrespect.

Matthew 10:32-38....“Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. 37 Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me."

How does one "disown" Jesus? By deliberately disobeying his teachings. We have the whole Bible to draw from in establishing who God is, and what he requires of us. If we favor our disobedient adult child over the commands of God through his Christ, we can kiss our own lives good bye because we become complicit in the sin committed by those we allow to dwell under our roof.

I believe that you will be facing the very same Jesus at the judgment as we all are. How well do you really know him? It is in your own best interests to find out, don't you think?



People can make God and Jesus into whatever suits them.....but the reality might be quite a different matter.

Look unless this lady was quite literally smearing feces on the walls or was cumbersome enough to warrant much more attention than necessary. No even then I fail to see any justification. They could have merely put her in a medical facility or at least a half way home. You know, acted like human beings?
I have grown up around disabled people. My aunt, my little cousin, my dad when his radiation therapy was in full swing. I don't care if they insulted me every waking hour of the day. I wouldn't care if they broke every single taboo in the Bible, the Vedas, the Torah or even the Satanic freaking bible. I would never even dream of disowning them or disfellowshipping or otherwise cease contact with them.
The very thought sickens me to my very core.
The fact is they needed help. They needed support. And even as cynical and selfish as I am, to abandon them, just never crossed my mind.

Look we pray to Jesus. We're cool last I checked. We just happen to include everyone else. Equal opportunity up in my house.
I have a ton of Watchtower mags from over the years. The obvious rhetoric never impressed me that much. Although the art work is often pretty.

Perhaps. Though I wouldn't be shocked if that's what other sects said of JWs. Just saying.

 

[Deeje]

Look unless this lady was quite literally smearing feces on the walls or was cumbersome enough to warrant much more attention than necessary. No even then I fail to see any justification. They could have merely put her in a medical facility or at least a half way home. You know, acted like human beings?

You are judging with half a story. That is foolish. Unless you have both sides of that sorry tale, it is pointless even discussing it.

We are not that heartless. If family members cannot take care of themselves, we will do it because we are their flesh and blood and believe it or not, we love them, but we don't have to love their choices......so there will not be any approval of an immoral lifestyle choice and it would not be practiced under our roof. If a care facility would suit the circumstances then it would be taken care of.
(Just wondering If she was a practicing homosexual, how 'disabled' she would be?)

I have grown up around disabled people. My aunt, my little cousin, my dad when his radiation therapy was in full swing. I don't care if they insulted me every waking hour of the day. I wouldn't care if they broke every single taboo in the Bible, the Vedas, the Torah or even the Satanic freaking bible. I would never even dream of disowning them or disfellowshipping or otherwise cease contact with them.
The very thought sickens me to my very core.

You think this is something that makes us happy? It is a devastating decision to have to make. But we don't write the rules, God does....and I have posted all the scriptural reasons why we do what we do. You'll have to take that up with God. If you do not live by the Bible then how can you follow Christ? How do you claim to be a Christian if you know his teachings but disobey them? That is hypocrisy...isn't it?

The fact is they needed help. They needed support. And even as cynical and selfish as I am, to abandon them, just never crossed my mind.

You don't know that the woman was abandoned, or even what level of disability she had. You have no idea what the details are so how can you make a judgement here?

I have experience of disability in my own household too.....but you know that there are many levels. Christian parents will do what they can to care for a disabled child, but they will not tolerate unchristian behavior in their home where other siblings may be influenced. A severely disabled child would never be abandoned.

Look we pray to Jesus. We're cool last I checked. We just happen to include everyone else. Equal opportunity up in my house.
I have a ton of Watchtower mags from over the years. The obvious rhetoric never impressed me that much. Although the art work is often pretty.

Well, that is your prerogative.....pretty artwork notwithstanding.
We pray to Jesus' Father as he did. The prayer goes to God through Jesus.
Jesus never told us to pray to him...just sayin'....

It's the information that is important, if it doesn't mean anything to you, then we have still done our job. The message was delivered and what you do with it is up to you.

Perhaps. Though I wouldn't be shocked if that's what other sects said of JWs. Just saying.

We are used to copping all sorts of misinformed criticism.....twisted half truths are worse than lies, but Jesus said we could expect the same kind of treatment as he received. (John 15:18-21)

 

[SomeRandom]

You are judging with half a story. That is foolish. Unless you have both sides of that sorry tale, it is pointless even discussing it.

We are not that heartless. If family members cannot take care of themselves, we will do it because we are their flesh and blood and believe it or not, we love them, but we don't have to love their choices......so there will not be any approval of an immoral lifestyle choice and it would not be practiced under our roof. If a care facility would suit the circumstances then it would be taken care of.
(Just wondering If she was a practicing homosexual, how 'disabled' she would be?)



You think this is something that makes us happy? It is a devastating decision to have to make. But we don't write the rules, God does....and I have posted all the scriptural reasons why we do what we do. You'll have to take that up with God. If you do not live by the Bible then how can you follow Christ? How do you claim to be a Christian if you know his teachings but disobey them? That is hypocrisy...isn't it?



You don't know that the woman was abandoned, or even what level of disability she had. You have no idea what the details are so how can you make a judgement here?

I have experience of disability in my own household too.....but you know that there are many levels. Christian parents will do what they can to care for a disabled child, but they will not tolerate unchristian behavior in their home where other siblings may be influenced. A severely disabled child would never be abandoned.



Well, that is your prerogative.....pretty artwork notwithstanding.
We pray to Jesus' Father as he did. The prayer goes to God through Jesus.
Jesus never told us to pray to him...just sayin'....

It's the information that is important, if it doesn't mean anything to you, then we have still done our job. The message was delivered and what you do with it is up to you.



We are used to copping all sorts of misinformed criticism.....twisted half truths are worse than lies, but Jesus said we could expect the same kind of treatment as he received. (John 15:18-21)

Lol pretty sure "practicing homosexuals" can be disabled, just as practicing heterosexuals can be disabled. The disabled have sex lives too you know? And that still doesn't excuse the callousness with which they just chucked her out. No matter how you dress it, that is beyond sociopathic. Christ, you think if my Aunty suddenly declared herself to be, I dunno, bisexual I would not support her? The only time I thought of stopping to visit was when I saw her mere days before her death. She was emaciated because she refused to eat the paste she was able to eat. It was pretty haunting stuff, still that thought left as soon as it entered. So if that wasn't enough to keep me away, why would something so inane as her personal sexuality?
That's between her and God. Not my business.

I do not discount the Watchtower, merely find it unconvincing. And sometimes kind of random. Though that's probably due to my strong apathy towards things like homosexuality.
But sure, if you like. The message has been delivered. The JWs have accomplished their mission with me. Hooray!

Funny, that's exactly what other sects say when faced with, as you call it, misinformed criticism. Merely an observation.

 

[Deeje]

Lol pretty sure "practicing homosexuals" can be disabled, just as practicing heterosexuals can be disabled. The disabled have sex lives too you know? And that still doesn't excuse the callousness with which they just chucked her out. No matter how you dress it, that is beyond sociopathic.

Well then, if they are able bodied enough to have sex then they are able bodied enough to take responsibility for their own actions. You don't even know what disability she had.

And you are still judging on half a story told by someone who has an axe to grind.....are you sure you want to go there?

Its not "dressed up" because it was never "dressed" in the first place. Would you like to be judged on the say so of someone who dislikes you intensely? Seriously is this what you call Christianity? Is it "sociopathic" to set rules for your own household and expect that those who live there will abide by them? If the rules state that immoral behavior will not be tolerated under your roof, then making a decision to live that lifestyle can only elicit one response...anything less would be hypocritical.

You also seem to forget that if a person is not baptized, then different rules apply. To take a vow of dedication and undergo Christian baptism and then renege on that vow and throw God's standards back in his face because you wanted to have illicit sex, is very different to someone who has made no dedication and is therefore uncommitted. Immorality would still not be permitted but there would be no disfellowshipping because there was no dedication made. That makes the contact rules a little different.

To us baptism like getting married, where you make vows to your partner "till death do you part" (for Christians anyway) You don't simply walk out on that marriage and treat your partner as if you never made a vow to them in the first place. (Ecclesiastes 5:4; Matthew 5:33)
It is a legally binding arrangement and steps must be taken to dissolve it legally. Partners will often never speak to one another again unless they have children together. Some can keep it amicable but others can't.

You seem to have very narrow views and a load of misinformation...but all too ready to judge adversely anyway. That is your choice.

 

[stvdv]

What I post is the truth as I understand it from the sacred writings of my faith.

You too follow the guidance of your guru, whom you quote as well. He is a source of truth to you, just as Jehovah and Jesus are a source of truth to me. We each understand that out faith is our personal choice...the difference is that my God wants me to tell others about him. (2 Timothy 4:1-5)

Agreed. And I am fine that "your God" wants you to tell others about Him. Makes me even happy hearing others tell enthusiastically about their Guru IF not belittling "my Guru"

I am sure they came from the same direction as myself. The Bible does not make allowance for the worship of other gods. In fact it calls all other gods "false"....a front used by the devil to deceive people. Whatever worship does not go to the "only true God" (as Jesus called his Father. John 17:3) goes to the devil by default since he is the only other "god" in this world who is vying for our worship. (Luke 4:5-8)

I know that. The difference is that you do not state "My believe is a fact for all". You have the decency to say "it is what I believe". The Christians I met did not have decency.

God gives us free will to exercise as our hearts see fit. I am sure that fighting over God will continue as it always has from the beginning, but from the Bible, it is my belief that the battle is about to end. And I am anxious for it to finish. This divided and cruel world under the devil's control needs to cease and the promised new one to begin.....bring it on. (2 Peter 3:13)

Even my Master said that "the era of Peace" is soon to start. Gave even specific dates. Most He said is true, this I believe is just "to give us hope", so I always say.....bring it on !!!

 

[SomeRandom]

Well then, if they are able bodied enough to have sex then they are able bodied enough to take responsibility for their own actions. You don't even know what disability she had.

And you are still judging on half a story told by someone who has an axe to grind.....are you sure you want to go there?

Its not "dressed up" because it was never "dressed" in the first place. Would you like to be judged on the say so of someone who dislikes you intensely? Seriously is this what you call Christianity? Is it "sociopathic" to set rules for your own household and expect that those who live there will abide by them? If the rules state that immoral behavior will not be tolerated under your roof, then making a decision to live that lifestyle can only elicit one response...anything less would be hypocritical.

You also seem to forget that if a person is not baptized, then different rules apply. To take a vow of dedication and undergo Christian baptism and then renege on that vow and throw God's standards back in his face because you wanted to have illicit sex, is very different to someone who has made no dedication and is therefore uncommitted. Immorality would still not be permitted but there would be no disfellowshipping because there was no dedication made. That makes the contact rules a little different.

To us baptism like getting married, where you make vows to your partner "till death do you part" (for Christians anyway) You don't simply walk out on that marriage and treat your partner as if you never made a vow to them in the first place. (Ecclesiastes 5:4; Matthew 5:33)
It is a legally binding arrangement and steps must be taken to dissolve it legally. Partners will often never speak to one another again unless they have children together. Some can keep it amicable but others can't.

You seem to have very narrow views and a load of misinformation...but all too ready to judge adversely anyway. That is your choice.

So abled bodied means no disability? There are plenty of disabilities that do not require someone be paraplegic! Come on.
I already told you, unless the lady in question was doing something rather extreme, I hardly consider throwing her out to be anything less than disgusting. Like book her a hotel at least geez.
So unless someone wishes to come forward and say that said lady was having gay orgies out in the courtyard or something, I have already made my mind up.
And I assume you would expect to be disowned if you ever found yourself giving into sin. Similarly I would ask that someone call me out for such harsh behaviour towards a freaking disabled person.

And disowning is not really what I think of when I think of parents setting boundaries (for presumably kids, maybe young adults.) Maybe disagreements, arguments, disapproval. Grounding, I dunno, extra chores or something. Sure. But disowning is way harsh. Even to adult children it's a bit extreme. That's cult like behaviour. Note I said cult like, not cultish.

Hey I'm not saying don't disfellowship or whatever. I'm just giving a perspective of an outsider. You can kick out whomever you please.
But my Aussie bluntness will not allow me to stand idly by without voicing my distaste.
And narrow views? I'm not the one disowning my family for sinning, or however you wish to phrase it.
Hypothetical, if someone did say they were gay but never acted on it, would they be allowed to stay?

 

[Deeje]

So abled bodied means no disability? There are plenty of disabilities that do not require someone be paraplegic! Come on.
I already told you, unless the lady in question was doing something rather extreme, I hardly consider throwing her out to be anything less than disgusting. Like book her a hotel at least geez.

Geez...here you go again...did you actually read anything I wrote? There was no disabled person sentenced to homelessness because her parents kicked her out OK for being gay. Unless you have proof that this ever happened then I'm sure its a non event. The circumstances would dictate the action. If this is even true, then I am guessing that there is way more to the story than what was told. There always is.

So unless someone wishes to come forward and say that said lady was having gay orgies out in the courtyard or something, I have already made my mind up.
And I assume you would expect to be disowned if you ever found yourself giving into sin. Similarly I would ask that someone call me out for such harsh behaviour towards a freaking disabled person.

Seriously....do you really claim to be a Christian? Do you entertain any Christian values? Take notice of Christ's teachings at all? Do you believe everything someone tells you on an internet forum when there is no way to hear the other side of the story? Really?

And disowning is not really what I think of when I think of parents setting boundaries (for presumably kids, maybe young adults.) Maybe disagreements, arguments, disapproval. Grounding, I dunno, extra chores or something. Sure. But disowning is way harsh. Even to adult children it's a bit extreme. That's cult like behaviour. Note I said cult like, not cultish.

This was not a child. The story was about a grown woman, not a young child or teen.The level of disability is not stated.

We don't "disown" anyone...anymore than God does. Disfellowshipping simply means no fellowship. It doesn't mean no support for those who need physical or mental help because of a disability.
If adults make decisions then all such decisions will have consequences...some are expected and some are not. If you make your bed, you have to lie in it.

Please read the account of the Prodigal Son and tell me what the father did to get his son back to come back home? How many times did he plead with him not to leave? (Luke 15:11-124) How many times did he visit him to make sure he was OK? Or offer to pay for his accommodation when he wasted all his money on debauched living? Learn something about tough love. Its character building.

Hey I'm not saying don't disfellowship or whatever. I'm just giving a perspective of an outsider. You can kick out whomever you please.

An outsider? You are not even in the same ball park.
It is not a decision that is ever taken lightly and only after many attempts to prevent that step from ever being taken.
A person has to be deliberately breaking God's laws with no repentance forthcoming, or attempting to subvert the faith of others. Its just not on.

But my Aussie bluntness will not allow me to stand idly by without voicing my distaste.

My Aussie bluntness can tell you you're barking up the wrong tree mate! You've got the bull by the horns. Try listening for a change.

And narrow views? I'm not the one kicking out my family simply because they fail to live up to meet the supposed standards of behaviour from any Holy Book. (And I have many to choose from.)

Let me get this straight....you pray to Jesus but you think the Bible or "any holy book" is a load of hooey? Does Jesus have no standards then? Can you tell me what you would know about Jesus without the Bible?

Or are you just being obtuse?

 

[wandering peacefully]

You are judging with half a story. That is foolish. Unless you have both sides of that sorry tale, it is pointless even dis

We are not that heartless. If family members cannot take care of themselves, we will do it because we are their flesh and blood and believe it or not, we love them, but we don't have to love their choices......so there will not be any approval of an immoral lifestyle choice and it would not be practiced under our roof. If a care facility would suit the circumstances then it would be taken care of.
(Just wondering If she was a practicing homosexual, how 'disabled' she would be?)



You think this is something that makes us happy? It is a devastating decision to have to make. But we don't write the rules, God does....and I have posted all the scriptural reasons why we do what we do. You'll have to take that up with God. If you do not live by the Bible then how can you follow Christ? How do you claim to be a Christian if you know his teachings but disobey them? That is hypocrisy...isn't it?



You don't know that the woman was abandoned, or even what level of disability she had. You have no idea what the details are so how can you make a judgement here?

I have experience of disability in my own household too.....but you know that there are many levels. Christian parents will do what they can to care for a disabled child, but they will not tolerate unchristian behavior in their home where other siblings may be influenced. A severely disabled child would never be abandoned.



Well, that is your prerogative.....pretty artwork notwithstanding.
We pray to Jesus' Father as he did. The prayer goes to God through Jesus.
Jesus never told us to pray to him...just sayin'....

It's the information that is important, if it doesn't mean anything to you, then we have still done our job. The message was delivered and what you do with it is up to you.



We are used to copping all sorts of misinformed criticism.....twisted half truths are worse than lies, but Jesus said we could expect the same kind of treatment as he received. (John 15:18-21)

I'm not sure how old your children are but I am curious; How do you get them to obey you when they do what you think is against your practices? Is it beatings, locked in a corner of a closet or room, mandatory hours of bible reading until they obey you, yelling at them? And what would you do if later they came to you and said they were gay? Would you seriously disown them?

Is this how you were raised? I know before I said I wouldn't be unkind to the next car load of jWs that showed up, but after reading your posts, I am going to repeat what you have said here and let them know what disgusting human beings I find them to be. You have to be very sick down deep inside to follow such garbage to the point of hating others so much. To choose your silly beliefs over real humans shows the character of people who choose to follow such nonesense. And the garbage about loving the sinner and hating the sin is the biggest lie ever told by fanatics. They just live to hate period.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I thought I was going to enjoy this forum but the more I read from the hard core believers, the more it makes me sad and hopeless that this world will ever survive or move beyond the ramblings of ancient bronze age goat herders and carpenters. I don't think it is good for my Zen. Certainly, it isn't good for a peaceful humanity.

 

[Deeje]

I'm not sure how old your children are but I am curious; How do you get them to obey you when they do what you think is against your practices? Is it beatings, locked in a corner of a closet or room, mandatory hours of bible reading until they obey you, yelling at them? And what would you do if later they came to you and said they were gay? Would you seriously disown them?

I have raised my children and am now enjoying my grandchildren. I don't know what could prompt a person to mention the things you have said above, (unless it was part of your own upbringing) but discipline is part of being a Christian. However none of the above were needed for my children or my grandchildren. Discipline can be words, not spoken in anger, well reasoned so that the child knows why the discipline is being administered, and a pulling of privileges. We don't have to yell or lock our children in a closet to talk with them calmly about what they have done wrong. We don't have to force them to be Christians if that is not their inclination. But house rules apply...like it or not.

If a child of mine turned out to be gay, it would not be the end of the world because being gay is not the problem. Immoral sexual activity is the problem (regardless of gender) and that is something over which we have control if we put our mind to it. No one ever died from not having sex.

We do not have to be slaves to our flesh. Engaging in sex is a choice and when you engage in sexual activity outside of scriptural marriage, then that is what would pose the problem, not primarily for the parents, but for the one desiring to engage in it. The battle between the flesh and the spirit is what is waged every day....some win, some lose...but we can all choose. When you choose the action, you also choose the consequences.
The world wants you to 'have your cake and eat it too'....we don't subscribe to that philosophy. Terrible isn't it?

Is this how you were raised?

I was raised by poor parents who sent me to Sunday School and hoped I would turn out to be a decent human being. They gave me a wonderful personal example of parents who did their best in their circumstances to impart moral principles and standards that were pretty much upheld in the day. I was never beaten or punished unfairly and I raised my children the same way. The one thing we remember as children more than anything, is injustice...and I have no memory of any injustice meted out to me or my siblings.

I know before I said I wouldn't be unkind to the next car load of jWs that showed up, but after reading your posts, I am going to repeat what you have said here and let them know what disgusting human beings I find them to be.

Then you are another one who has judged without due regard for what I have written. Its not surprising that people selectively read to glean what they want to hear. You have just proven that you did that.

Tell me exactly what you are going to 'repeat' and let's hear what you selectively read. Please include context.

You have to be very sick down deep inside to follow such garbage to the point of hating others so much. To choose your silly beliefs over real humans shows the character of people who choose to follow such nonesense. And the garbage about loving the sinner and hating the sin is the biggest lie ever told by fanatics. They just live to hate period.

The only sick people here are those who make judgments about others based on what their values are. We don't all have the same values (thank God) and we as Christian followers of Jesus Christ refuse to compromise with a world that we believe is ruled by the devil. Its not that hard to see if you know what you're looking at. Immorality is one of his favorite 'baits'....for some it's "hook, line and sinker".

You can consider what I believe to be all the "nonsense" you like.....it really doesn't change anything. Your perceptions are your perceptions and you are entitled to hold them. They are not mine.

"Love" doesn't mean winking at wrongdoing and tolerating what God doesn't tolerate. If it feels right for you to tolerate such things then go for it. That is your choice.
"Love" doesn't mean allowing your children to run amok. "Love" means you care enough to disciple them. "Love" has boundaries within which children find security. This is the very opposite of "hate".
Undisciplined children are never happy....or hadn't you noticed?

If my beliefs interfere with your 'peaceful wanderings' then I am afraid that is your problem. I will not alter my standards to suit yours...and neither will God IMO. OK?

Perhaps your need to go and find your peace elsewhere if this topic is too distressing for you?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Look we pray to Jesus

.....then this:

I have a ton of Watchtower mags from over the years.

Huh? Oh, the irony.

(It would’ve been great if you’d have read them.....)

 

[Oeste]

Its an interesting approach asking us (RF folks) all whether or not he should join a religion. Along as there's reflection and prayer also it doesn't bother me.

Well he did ask it on the "Seekers", which quite frankly is a forum I never knew RF had.

When you consider that there are many here at RF who would imagine becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses to be a great mistake for anyone,....

I don't understand your objection. Isn't this the same question you force everyone to answer when you knock on a door Saturday mornings? @RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha is simply asking it here. The only difference I see is that he didn't do it on a Saturday morning, and he didn't bundle it with a free publication study.

...asking such people the OP question would be tantamount to asking someone Jewish if they should become a Christian?

Suggest they follow Christ rather than those at the Temple? Surely you jest. Not even Jesus would do a thing like that!!!

What answer would you expect?

Certainly the response by JW's is one we've come to expect but you never know until you ask. IMO the non-JW's gave some of the most insightful and unexpected responses.

 

[Deeje]

I don't understand your objection. Isn't this the same question you force everyone to answer when you knock on a door Saturday mornings?

On a Saturday morning? There is no day when Jehovah's Witnesses don't "witness". It is a commission; a command from Jesus Christ himself, not merely a recommendation for those who might like to participate if they feel like it. Jesus said he would be "with" his disciples in this work (Matthew 28:19-20) ......so when was the last time a member of Christendom's churches visited you with Christ's personal message of the "good news of God's Kingdom"? (Matthew 10:11-15) According to Jesus, it was to be carried out right up until the "end" of the present system of things. (Matthew 24:14) I believe that "the end" is not far away now. Closer than its ever been actually.

"On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it." (Matthew 24:44) We are ready and have been prepared for many decades now....how about you?

RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha is simply asking it here. The only difference I see is that he didn't do it on a Saturday morning, and he didn't bundle it with a free publication study.

Being "no part of the world" because "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one" (1 John 5:19) means not asking the world for an opinion that involves the worship of the true God. The reason why seems obvious...at least to us.

Leaving a publication or at least a link to JW.ORG allows people to check things out for themselves. We are only the messengers and we can call any day of the week. Whether people listen is up to them. They will either be drawn to the message or repelled by it...either way, we have done our job. (John 6:44)

Suggest they follow Christ rather than those at the Temple? Surely you jest. Not even Jesus would do a thing like that!!!

Oh but he did, quite emphatically. ( Luke 12:1) He castigated those who were teachers at the temple at every opportunity.

After listing all the hypocritical things they were doing and teaching, he said to the Pharisees.....(Matthew 23)
"Serpents, offspring of vipers, how will you flee from the judgment of Ge·henʹna? 34 For this reason, I am sending to you prophets and wise men and public instructors. Some of them you will kill and execute on stakes, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 so that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zech·a·riʹah son of Bar·a·chiʹah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar."

Certainly the response by JW's is one we've come to expect but you never know until you ask. IMO the non-JW's gave some of the most insightful and unexpected responses.

Why am I surprised to hear you say that?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hey @RothschildSaxeCoburgGotha, hope you are well.

Didn’t you tell @Deeje and myself that basically you asked this in prayer to Jehovah? And did you not say that, the next day, even tho living out in the country, you received a visit from two of us?? If that’s not a prayer answered, I don’t know what is!

That is what you stated....that’s accurate, right?

 

[SomeRandom]

.....then this:



Huh? Oh, the irony.

(It would’ve been great if you’d have read them.....)

I have. Do not make the error in assuming I have never once given any organisation a fair go. I'm Aussie, that's our tried and true blue method in life.
But you know not everyone is impressed with Watchtower mags, right? Even other Christians have dismissed them.

 

[SomeRandom]

Geez...here you go again...did you actually read anything I wrote? There was no disabled person sentenced to homelessness because her parents kicked her out OK for being gay. Unless you have proof that this ever happened then I'm sure its a non event. The circumstances would dictate the action. If this is even true, then I am guessing that there is way more to the story than what was told. There always is.



Seriously....do you really claim to be a Christian? Do you entertain any Christian values? Take notice of Christ's teachings at all? Do you believe everything someone tells you on an internet forum when there is no way to hear the other side of the story? Really?



This was not a child. The story was about a grown woman, not a young child or teen.The level of disability is not stated.

We don't "disown" anyone...anymore than God does. Disfellowshipping simply means no fellowship. It doesn't mean no support for those who need physical or mental help because of a disability.
If adults make decisions then all such decisions will have consequences...some are expected and some are not. If you make your bed, you have to lie in it.

Please read the account of the Prodigal Son and tell me what the father did to get his son back to come back home? How many times did he plead with him not to leave? (Luke 15:11-124) How many times did he visit him to make sure he was OK? Or offer to pay for his accommodation when he wasted all his money on debauched living? Learn something about tough love. Its character building.



An outsider? You are not even in the same ball park.
It is not a decision that is ever taken lightly and only after many attempts to prevent that step from ever being taken.
A person has to be deliberately breaking God's laws with no repentance forthcoming, or attempting to subvert the faith of others. Its just not on.



My Aussie bluntness can tell you you're barking up the wrong tree mate! You've got the bull by the horns. Try listening for a change.



Let me get this straight....you pray to Jesus but you think the Bible or "any holy book" is a load of hooey? Does Jesus have no standards then? Can you tell me what you would know about Jesus without the Bible?

Or are you just being obtuse?

Geez, sorry I keep trying to fight this cough.
I sincerely hope you didn't catch whatever bug is seemingly sweeping through Aus right now. It's a mongrel.

It's your word against another. I have no reason to question the validity of the claim, you are trying to defend your organisation. Based on similar stories I have heard over the years from ex and even current members, I have more reason to believe the claim than I do for dismissing it.

I know Jesus through the Holy Spirit, as you Christians would say. But I am not beholden to any Holy Book. I am not of the book, I am of the experiential pathway. Make of that what you will.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I have. Do not make the error in assuming I have never once given any organisation a fair go. I'm Aussie, that's our tried and true blue method in life.
But you know not everyone is impressed with Watchtower mags, right? Even other Christians have dismissed them.

Yes, I’m well aware!

However, my point was, the WT has never said to “pray to Jesus”. But that’s what you implied. (We advocate the worship of Jehovah and prayer to Him, as did Noah, Abraham, Jesus, David and others.)

The obvious conclusion is, you’ve never read the magazines... seriously and thoroughly, anyways.

No offense is meant.