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Featured Should I Become A Jehovah's Witness?

Discussion in 'Seekers Circle' started by Earthling, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You think this is a popularity contest? :shrug: Actually the fact that we cop more flack for less offense than just about any religious group I know is not depressing....its actually encouraging.

    John 15:18-21....Jesus said....
    "If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me."

    If some listened to Jesus in spite of that climate of hostility, then he assured us that his disciples would experience the same thing. Nuff said.... [​IMG]
     
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  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You think Jesus and his apostles never had to listen to the twisted stories of apostates? It was their word against their opposers too. Even on the night of his arrest there were 'witnesses' who testified falsely against Jesus.
    How many listened to the truth and supported Jesus' innocence? Now compare that to how many were there before Pilate clambering for his death. (Matthew 27:22-25)

    Jesus himself quoted from that holy book which was inspired by holy spirit. So you better take that up with him, I think.
     
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  3. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Yes well I have chosen my side on the aforementioned claim.

    Well Jesus would have to, considering who he was ministering to. Would they have understood otherwise.
    My relationship with Jesus remains as it always has been.
     
  4. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I never said anything about popularity. I said not everyone is impressed with the Watchtower. Else the world would all be JWs, would they not?

    But that's life, innit? People will traverse their own pathways to God or not. Such is the way of humanity. Do not take my harsh words for hostility. I do not begrudge any path. Not really. I'm just skeptical.
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    As you are entitled to do. But have you considered the consequences if you have chosen according to how you view things rather than how Jehovah does? He knows the truth...but do you?

    What makes us any different? You would know nothing about Jesus if not for the holy book.

    Your choice. [​IMG]
     
  6. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I think I would know of Jesus, since I live in the West and his followers of various flavours constantly sing his praises. Kind of hard to escape really.
    I even recall watching the long running Touched by an Angel series as a kid. I liked Tess, she was funny.

    Not different, but some people traditionally follow a Holy Book. That makes sense to them. Some discard books altogether and seek to learn from life and the energies of whatever their traditions give them. Like how the Saint Shiridi Sai taught Muslims from their Holy Book and Hindus from theirs. People respond to different things, there's nothing really wrong with it. It's just tailoring your teachings to suit the sensibilities of the people. A principle applied even to this day.
     
  7. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time?

    Quite recently, like today actually. But this message was brought to me early in life, a long time ago. Every time my dad said prayer he witnessed. When he worked overtime to pay the phone bill, to have extra for that school trip, to make sure we never had to eat powdered milk or government cheese again, when he quietly suffered an indignity, when he helped a friend or family member, when he counseled us against greed and anger, and reminded me to thank God for what we had...these were the things he personallywitnessed to me about.

    But it didn't end there. My neighbors were Christians and they witnessed too. They invited us into their homes, made sure we were included in activities, and we treated each other with dignity and respect. Things like this do not originate from the world, they originated from Christ. Rather then tell me about scripture, they lived it and I did my best to do the same.

    I suppose the one thing not included in my witness was how wrong the Catholics or Methodists were. I didn't get that witness until much later in life.

    I remember being told it made no sense to associate with my neighbors or "worldly" friends because they wouldn't be around much longer. This was back in the Sixties and early Seventies. Some have died since then but through the grace of God most are still around. I am honestly glad I didn't spend the last 50 years preparing for the day when I had to drag their lifeless corpse from a church or home.

    I have a question to ask though. What's the difference between getting struck by a meteor at Armageddon or getting hit by a bus? Wouldn't it be more practical to remind JW's, day after day, that a bus, car, train wreck, cancer, heart attack, virus or terrorist sent by Satan could be waiting for them tomorrow rather than this near total concentration on Armageddon?

    In other words, they're more likely to face their own personal Armageddon than a global one?


    By "us" are you referring to JW's on this forum? I ask because the JW's I know and who knock on my door didn't just leave a publication and say "obey", but have continuously asked for my opinion. Some of these questions involved issues of worship. It would be unfortunate if it were simply a ruse.

    Then to answer your question, what Jesus did was "tantamount to asking someone Jewish if they should become a Christian".
     
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Let me ask you a question....what is "the good news of the kingdom" that Jesus told his disciples to preach?
    Is that what you received today?

    Is the subject of our witnessing the same as' love of neighbor' which Jesus said was to be expressed for our brothers and neighbors at every available opportunity? Was it the sacrifices made to show love and care for one's family members? What you are saying here, if I understand you correctly, is that they are one and the same thing? But the truth is, those things are family responsibilities...they are really nothing to do with the subject of the actual preaching work that Jesus commissioned.

    Again we have love of neighbor....a Christian requirement and yes indeed, taught by Christ. No doubt about it, our conduct reflects on the God we worship, but the preaching of the "good news of the kingdom" is a specific message.....we don't take it to fellow believers but to unbelievers. It is the only "witness" that they will get before the "end" comes. (Matthew 24:14) It involves visiting people in their homes and imparting that message (Matthew 10:11-15) because they have to be warned that the good news also has a sting in the tail. It isn't "good news" for those who ignore it.

    What two classifications of people meriting "eternal destruction" did Paul mention in 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10?

    What? Only Catholics and Methodists? Going back many decades I realized at a young age that the whole of Christendom was the same poison simply served up on different plates. I could not see the point in them being separate churches when they all taught the same lies. That plate was also filled with the money we pledged that was more important to the minister than we were.
    I left that poor excuse for Christianity long before I met the Witnesses. It wasn't the people...most of whom were very nice.....it was the church system and what it taught...not to mention that it never had answers for the hard questions.....none of that ever rang true for me. Studying the Bible with JW's just confirmed to me what I already suspected. Christendom is far removed from the true Christianity that Jesus taught...but its all most people have ever known, so they never question it.

    LOL...there was a lot of stuff that people thought back then, but we have grown up some since then with over 50 years of increased knowledge and understanding. The "light on the path" just kept getting brighter and brighter. (Proverbs 4:18)

    Those who have died will awaken in the new world as if they closed their eyes only a moment ago. Those of us still waiting patiently as Jesus told us to, whether we attain to the 'real life' before or after Armageddon, we will still have served the true God by obeying the directives of his son. Obedience is all God has ever asked of us.

    I have no idea what your last sentence there is supposed to be saying? Perhaps you can explain?

    What makes you think we are unaware of that fact. No one is promised tomorrow...that is why we try to live each day as if it were our last...no regrets then and no excuses. God does not accept them.

    Internet forums are places where information is exchanged. Since you can't hear a voice or read body language like you can face to face, opinions are formed by reading the posts. The end result is the same. People are forming opinions and I hope we are supplying the knowledge to help them to do that. Their opinions are expressed about what we write, both positive and negative, and the scriptures we base our beliefs on are supplied for their appraisal.....then we have done our job. At the end of the day, decisions are being made......that is none of our business. We just 'plant and water'....'God is the one that makes the seed grow'. (1 Corinthians 3:6)

    What Jesus did was show the "lost sheep" why following the teachings of the Pharisees was not what they needed to do to please God. The heavy burden placed on them by negligent shepherds wasn't what God required of them at all. He invited them to become his sheep and he, as the Fine Shepherd, would direct them into the right fold. His "yoke was kindly and his load was light" compared to what the religious leaders taught and expected.

    He wasn't asking Jews to become "Christians" at all....he was asking Jews to recognize that the Pharisees were not teaching them from God's word, but with their own ideas and embellishments from their oral traditions. He was asking the Jews to become real Jews, not the fake kind that the Pharisees had become.
     
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  9. Agent

    Agent Member

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    Yes I agree 100%
    you should all speak in agreement
    there should be no divisions among you
    that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought

    I believe Jehovah's Witnesses are right about hell. The trinity is not in the Bible.
    Who else is preaching the good news of the kingdom to the inhabited earth Matt 24:14?
    I can't think of any body that is preaching the kingdom, they might go out and preach Jesus is Lord.
     
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  10. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Active Member

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    I can't let another day go by without apologiapologizing.

    Yes, of course it is your right to judge gay people. And to believe what you do about the Bible and God. And believe everyone but you and yours are wicked and going to hell.

    I just don't have it in me to actually be mean to your clan that show up on myour door step with the sincere belief they have the only correct way.


    I have always just given a polite "no thanks" and because that is my true way, I will continue to do so.

    Thanks again for explaining the JW beliefs.
     
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  11. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    The “good news” is the entirety of the gospel message.

    I receive some form through witnessing. My dad witnessed. My mom witnessed. My neighbors witnessed. Sometimes this witnessing included preaching , sometimes it did not.

    The sacrifices we make for our family are the same sacrifices Christians are asked to make for their neighbors because it’s the same sacrifice Christ made for us.

    So when Jehovah Witnesses preach about family responsibility, they make it clear it has nothing to do with the preaching work Jesus commissioned?

    Are you sure about this Deeje??

    Yes it was, and since the “good news” is the entire gospel message, “family responsibility” is part and parcel of preaching work.

    Are your Assemblies full of unbelievers? If you don’t preach to believers I see little need for meetings. What would there be to discuss?

    Christians generally believe that the gospel message, which includes the gospel in its entirety, is beneficial not only for the spiritually ill but uplifting for the healthy as well.

    I believe we see the word “witness” totally different. What my dad and neighbors did was “witness”. I consider this different from publicizing or distributing literature. (Acts 1:8)

    However you bring up something interesting. You state the good news is a specific message and you point to Matthew 10:11-15.

    This "specific message" was not what Jesus commanded be preached to the Gentiles. If you read Matthew 10:5, you’ll see Jesus forbade this message to be carried to the Gentiles or even the Samaritans.

    “The Kingdom is near” is not what Jesus commanded be preached. It is the “good news”. It is the entirety of the gospel and not simply a specific message.

    IMO, if your Organization preaches this specific message (and apparently it does, judging by your comments and the thumbs up given by another JW member), your members should preach without a wallet, purse, or money bag in hand (Mat 10:9), and it should be preached to the Jews only.

    “He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.” (2 Thessalonians 1:8)​

    This is a good thing for you to point out Deeje. If we preach “the Kingdom is near” rather than “the good news of the Kingdom” to the Gentiles, we are not obeying our Lord Jesus Christ’s command at Matthew 10:9.

    If the money was more important, then you may have been at the wrong church. I’ve attended Catholic services before and I am not a Catholic. I’ve also worked with them as they collected food in their pantries and distributed it to the poor. This was done regardless of the recipient’s religious preference.

    I see your dismissal of Christian churches as “poison” as more fruit of the Watchtower. I just wish the rank in file were more up front about their message. For instance, do you freely advise Muslims in Syria their religion is “poison” when going “door to door”, or is this solely reserved for those living in the relative safety of “Christendom”?

    We had different experiences. I didn’t know a JW from a Mormon when a friend came up to me and offered a “bible” study. At first, the answers rang true, and I enjoyed the easy read bible. But it was their teachings…which could change on a dime (I believe that was the suggested donation for the Watchtower at the time)…that began to ring as untrue to me. I found their reasoning logically inconsistent, and while they said they would get back to me with answers, they rarely did. The only questions they were really interested in answering were the ones found at the bottom of the page.

    Of course they questioned it. Heretics have popped up over the centuries questioning the teaching or beliefs of the church. Do you think the Watchtower was the first?

    I see no “light” dragging dead neighbors out of their church or home. This was never a light from God, and as such, if it is getting brighter, it only means you are moving farther away (2Cor 11:14)

    So we have 500 people brought back to life from 3,000 years ago, and the last thing they remember is that they were in a pitched battle with orders to kill everyone, and destroy their homes and livestock?

    And then you will ask them, Watchtower in hand, if they’re ready to start their 1000 year bible study?

    Has the Governing Board really thought this through???


    You’ve been in the Watchtower for decades Deeje. Have you forgotten already?

    I was referring to the billions of bodies Jehovah Witnesses will have to remove. Back in the 60’s and 70’s it was hoped that Jehovah would spare a few nice homes in each neighborhood so that Witnesses could simply drag a few bodies from a neighbor’s home and move in. I believe the Watchtower has “progressed” on this now. The "latest thinking" I heard on this was the birds still get to eat their full, but now Jehovah steps in and uses anti-matter on the rest.

    I’m not saying you’re unaware. I’m saying it’s not emphasized.

    One’s “personal Armageddon” is rarely emphasized in your publications. Instead the WT repeatedly hammers home the idea that you will be alive, not already deceased, when Armageddon arrives.

    What does get emphasized is “global Armageddon”. Your children are not repeatedly taught they could die in a car crash because their parents fell asleep at the wheel, but they are repeatedly taught falling asleep during a meeting could lead to death at global Armageddon.

    Well at least not if you’re in the Watchtower Organization. The closest I believe you can come to a promised tomorrow is to be a member of the “elect”. Even then there's no guarantee of salvation.

    Christianity’s response is a bit different. There is no “last’ day because we continue to live in Christ rather than “cease to exist” when we die in the flesh.

    Wow! Even when we disagree we still manage to find areas of agreement Deeje. Another sign of the end times?


    What I don’t understand is how Jesus’ “light yolk” was translated from things like the care of widows and orphans into time cards.

    Are you sure about this?

    Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people”. (Mat 4:19)​

    In any event, I appreciate the time you take to respond to questions and points I've raised. You argue from WT publications which I believe puts you at a distinct disadvantage, but that's just me. I also appreciate you're taking time to elaborate on the latest WT position.
     
  12. ChanaR

    ChanaR Member

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    This thread has been going on for quite some time, and I'm a Johnny Come Lately. I really can't read 10 pages of posts. But I'll share my best thoughts, and just hope I'm not too out of step.

    Organized religion gets a bad rap these days. I things it's a tragedy that this present generation is distancing itself from religious communities just as science is discovering their great value to us. Trust me, you will be healthier, happier, and live a longer life if you become part of an organized religion, even if it means putting on one of those "terrible" suits. :)

    I think that the JW's offer what religion in general offers: a chance to come closer to God and to become a better person. It means you have to actually work the program--people who half heartedly just go along for the ride don't really improve much. But JW will give you the tools you need.

    Here is the thing. Do you actually believe what thy teach? Only you can answer that. Religions can generally be divided into two categories: those who stress belief (orthodoxy) and those that stress action (orthopraxy). JW is definitely a belief religion. If you are not entirely convinced, please do not go into it.

    You also should make an informed choice, go into it with your eyes wide open. Every religion has its drawbacks, and that includes the Watchtower. The biggest thing is that although you can question and think for yourself now, that will end if you become a Witness. Once a JW, if you make waves, you will be shunned, including by family members who are JWs. The Watchtower does your thinking for you -- you are to immerse yourself in their literature, and not to read any Bible commentaries from any other group or author. You even have to read only the particular translation of the Bible that is put out by the Watchtower. The second big thing is that it is a very insular group -- you are expected to break ties with all your friends and even family members who are not JW. I don't mean you dont ever talk with them, I'm saying you aren't supposed to hang with them. This can be heart rending, and is deeply disturbing to everyone who cares about you.

    Now if you believe what they teach AND you are willing to make those kind of sacrifices, then I would say the watchtower is for you. If you have doubts about their teachings, or you are an independent thinker, or you don't want to break ties with i.e. your Catholic mom, then I would look for a different home.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There was a lot to address so I'll break this up....

    When I was a church goer, I had no idea what God's Kingdom actually was, let alone what the good news about it was, and how it tied into the Lord's Prayer that we parroted off every week.

    Tell me what you think these words mean...? "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
    I was never told.

    Who did Jesus send his disciples out to preach to? Not to 'believers', but only to unbelievers that Jesus was the Christ. The Jews believed in the God that Jesus was preaching about, but according to the Apostle Paul...."I can testify that they have a zeal for God, but it is not enlightened. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness." (Romans 10:2-3 NASB)

    I see the same situation in Christendom. The one thing that Jesus actually commanded his disciples to do, right up to the end of the age, (Matthew 28:19-20) is basically ignored by the churches. Jesus told us to "search" for the ones who might be drawn to the truth of God's message and to teach them. (Matthew 19:11-15; Matthew 28:19-20)

    Over the years, I have asked many people who considered themselves "good Christians" if they participate in the preaching work that Jesus and his disciples carried out......most admitted that they should have, but could not do it because it was too hard. If Jesus said he was going to back this work, then it isn't too hard, is it? It is just as hard as it was in the first century.....but they did it .(2 Timothy 4:1-2)

    Sorry, but that sounds like a lame excuse to me. That is not the good news of God's Kingdom. It was a specific message that Jesus sent his disciples to preach, so what is it that we are supposed to be telling people? Please be precise.

    Nicely twisted. You have a way with words but they are seldom accurate.

    When we preach about God's Kingdom we tell people (who are interested enough to know) what God's Kingdom means for their future......and you don't have to go to heaven to to enjoy the benefits. Humans were meant to live on earth forever. When God created Adam and Eve, there was no mention of heaven or hell, was there? But there was a mention of the "tree of life" resulting in living on earth forever. (Genesis 3:22-24)

    Christianity encompasses many things about how to love God, how to treat family members, how to treat our neighbors.....how to respect God's word.....but as for the Kingdom....that was a specific message....and it was found in the word of God. Prophesied about in the Hebrew scriptures. (Daniel 2:44)

    Paul wrote..."preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." (2 Timothy 4:2-5)
     
  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    We meet for exactly the same reasons as they did in the first century. (Hebrews 10:24-25) It wasn't for preaching, but for instruction and further education...and to encourage one another.

    Of course.

    We don't preach to believers at our meetings because there is no need. Many people who come to our meetings, particularly our yearly assemblies, enjoy the encouragement and education that we get there.
    We are Bible students after all, so our meetings are for Bible study.

    So you see Acts 1:8 as applying to those who never go out in the "witness" work that Jesus assigned in Matthew 28:19-20? So "Go" means stay? It means just being a good Christian to others and that's enough?

    Acts 1:8..."but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” (NASB)

    "To the most distant part of the earth", means that Christians are to sit in a building to which they hope people will come?
    How does that fit Jesus' instruction to "search" for these ones? (Matthew 10:11-15)
    The Greek word is "exetazō" and according to Strongs, it primarily means to "to search out".

    If you were "lost", how would you like people to "search" for you? Sitting in a building waiting for you to stumble in?

    Nice try. There was a good reason why Jesus was specifically sent only to the Jews. They were given first opportunity to become heirs of the Kingdom, because of God's promise to Abraham, but after Jesus' death, the Apostle Peter was sent to the first Gentiles to include them in the Christian arrangement. Paul was appointed as an 'apostle to the Gentile nations' (Acts 9:15; Ephesians 3:5-6)

    Please tell me what the good news about God's Kingdom is. Let me hear it from you.

    LOL What makes you think so? You really think that applies to Christians now? If you read the passage in context and understand that Jews were under obligation to be hospitable to strangers, you would then understand why Jesus rescinded the recommendation later. (Luke 22:35-36)

    We preach that the Kingdom will solve all of mankind's problems as its brought out in Revelation 21:2-4. What better news could we bring them?
    The fact that Jesus and the apostles kept the coming of the kingdom as an imminent event is actually for our benefit. As the "sacred secret" unfolded, Jesus' disciples began to discern more accurately the details about the Kingdom and when we could expect it....not the day or hour, but Jesus told us to look for the "sign" of his "presence". (Matthew 24:3) The light on the path got brighter and brighter. (Proverbs 4:18)
     
    #194 Deeje, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
  15. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Good humanitarians are found even among the godless Oeste, so tell me where Jesus said that hand to mouth charity was a Christian requirement? The Law gave Israelites the dignity of working for their food and the apostles did not recommend that organized charity was an identifying mark of Christianity. How is Matthew 6:1-4 applied here? Only widows and orphans were the recipients of aid because those considered able bodied were expected to work. (2 Thessalonians 3:10) We are not to give a man a fish...we are to teach him how to procure his own fish.

    You think that JW's have the freedom to preach in nations like Syria? We preach to people of all faiths and offer them the good news that wars and conflict will soon end and those who cause and support the violence will be gone forever.
    Syrian refugees often accept Jesus' message of a peaceful future. He is already a prophet in their religion. They are sick of the bloodshed. The good news is refreshing to many of them.

    You are free to ask any reasonable question you like here, Oeste. Not many of us are walking Bible encyclopedias you know.

    Its Christendom's teachings that I find logically inconsistent....but that is just due to my years of research....not just WT but with many other resources as well. I use the Tanach as well as Strong's Concordance and the Mounce Intelinear....all very good guides.

    LOL you really think its going to be like that? Tell me where you think those 500 hundred have gone and what they have been doing for the last 3,000 years? Please provide scripture to answer the question.

    OMG! That is just funny. Here we are going door to door doing house appraisals so that we can drag out bodies and move into their houses. Now I've heard everything. :facepalm: and we've moved on now?

    Are you for real? :facepalm:

    If you say so.

    Absolutely! Those of the Jews who followed Jesus were taught to "fish" for fellow Jews as skillfully as they caught the real ones. There was a lot of opposition to face but they realized that lives were at stake.

    Well the thing is I really can't let someone get away with telling things that are not true......someone should tell you it isn't nice to do that.
    We will let Jesus do the judging....how about you?
     
  16. ChanaR

    ChanaR Member

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    You have to remember that Rabbi Yeshua was a Jew. God's Kingdom is wherever he is obeyed. The angels do his bidding in heaven without hesitation. The sun and moon and stars obey him in the heavens. For Rabbi Yeshua to pray "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" is to pray that the Lord will be obeyed on Earth as he is everywhere else.
     
  17. Agent

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    [44] And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    Dan.2
     
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  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    If you say so.....won't it be interesting to find out? :)

    But what happens if the Jewish belief in Messiah's Kingdom being set up on this earth (Acts 1:6) and the worship of the true God coming to embrace the whole world is true? It was to have Jewish "kings and priests" facilitating the doing of God's will among mankind......as it is now done in heaven?

    There was a time when satan and his demons had free access to heaven, (Job 1:6-7) meaning that God's will was not completely done there until God's purpose to cleanse the heavens, by evicting all of those rebels down to the earth, was carried out. Once that was achieved (by a war with Jesus and the faithful angels, and unseen to humans. Revelation 12:7-12) those in heaven rejoiced....but it meant "woe" for the earth as satan knows his time is short.

    Can't we see that this "woe" is in keeping with satan's trademark of unbridled sex and violence? The end times would be just as it was in the days of Noah, as Jesus said (Matthew 24:37-39) History is repeating....again demonically inspired.

    All that is left now is for God's Kingdom to "come" and cleanse this earth, and once the rebels here, both human and angelic, are eliminated from existence, in a final showdown that the Bible calls "Armageddon".....only then will God's will "be done on earth as it is in heaven."

    I believe that world conditions indicate that we won't have long to wait for the time when Jesus will come unexpectedly (for unbelievers) to judge all of earth's inhabitants. There is no choice about this since the Bible says we will all answer to the same judge. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. (Revelation 6:15-17)...and no excuses to offer. (Matthew 7:21-23)

    We have all been exposed to the warning that God's messengers have proclaimed "in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations" in this time of the "end", (Matthew 24:14) and everyone will have chosen their position of their own free will when the accounting comes.

    So from my perspective, as a Bible student of many years, it won't matter what we have chosen to believe, or what god we have chosen to serve.....we will all answer to the true God one day....and the Bible says that for "many", it will not be a pleasant encounter. :(
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

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    Since this was not addressed to any JW particularly, I will respond.

    I am not quite sure if this is an apology but I will accept it as one, and thank you for it.

    We don't have the right to judge anyone. What we judge is the action, just like God does, and tells us to do. What lifestyle people choose is up to them. It is an exercise of their own free will.

    Immoral sexual activity is condemned in the Bible regardless of gender. We have gay people in our ranks, but they choose celibacy. Being gay is not the problem.

    We have no belief in hell. That idea does not come from the Bible.

    The only choice that God gave us was "life or death".....not heaven or hell.

    I am pleased to hear that, because none of my brothers or sisters who turn up at your door will be there with anything but a good motive.

    It's all we ask.

    Thank you for the opportunity to do so.
     
  20. Oeste

    Oeste Well-Known Member

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    I really like the description given by @ChanaR in post 196. It’s definitely something to look forward to.

    I don’t see this command ignored by the churches at all. There are over a billion Christians on the planet, thousands upon thousands of churches, all searching for new members, not rejecting them, all offering bible studies for those wishing to learn.

    Well first, it would be hard to find a Christian in a Kingdom Hall. Only your anointed, the 144,000, are considered Christians by the Watchtower. The rest of you are considered associates of Christians. See "Aid to BIble Understanding, page 371:

    Secondly, Jehovah Witnesses don't preach, they publish. Jehovah Witnesses are called publishers, not preachers. You publish whatever your Governing Board preaches. If you're not sure about this check your yearbook. It's one of the few things the Watchtower has been consistent about.

    There is a reason for this. Preaching is a work of the Spirit, not of the printing press. The rank and file are denied the Spirit in your Organization. That's only for the 144,000, and the authority to preach is only granted to the Governing Board.

    For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. (1 Thessalonians 4-5)​

    Similarly, today a limited number of anointed men have the responsibility of representing the slave class. They make up the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. These spirit-anointed men oversee the Kingdom work and the spiritual feeding program. As in the first century, though, the Governing Body does not consult with each individual member of the slave class before making decisions*. (WT 6/15/09 para 18)​

    *Amazing the GB states they do not consult with the slave class whereas for 7 decades previously that's exactly what they claimed they did.

    I’ve already told you what the good news is. The word “gospel” means “good news”. As such, it is the entirety of the message and not simply part of the message.

    You stated the following:

    I replied:
    I simply asked if you were sure about what you stated. There was nothing "nicely twisted" here Deeje.

    I don't think that's true Deeje.

    I'm sure your Governing Board has talks and instructions specifically targeted toward believers.

    I'll reply to your other comments on a separate post.
     
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