Why Believe Jesus Never Had Sex?

Hockeycowboy · Aug 6, 2018

Bob the Unbeliever said:
Not... quite. If there was only Adam and Eve, and then Seth? (Abel being dead, and Cain being sent away).

Then to get kids from Seth, it was Seth + Eve for awhile? And the, perhaps Adam and Seth's daughter(s)?

The story simply isn't all that clear-- but obviously for just two starting pairs, you are going to have to use multiple partners to get the population going.

Anything else simply does not work mathematically.

This is related to the old question (I guess it's supposed to be a stumper, which it isn't): Where did Cain get his wife?

It's not that hard to answer....the answer is found @ Genesis 5:4.
Their DNA being near genetically perfect, such bonding between a brother and sister, or uncle and niece, or aunt and nephew, would not have deleterious results, as it does today.

Even Abraham, several generations later, married his half-sister Sarah and had healthy offspring.

Hockeycowboy · Aug 6, 2018

Riders said:
Theres no proof he ever was raised from the dead. We would have so many written reports and records outside of the bible it would be unbelievable.

No, not really. Most people would've been very skeptical, like today....very few writers of the time, with established reputations would have written about something so hard to believe, on just the testimony of eyewitnesses, most of whom were common Jews.

So, having no contemporary reports is not surprising!

Even the Pharisees, who saw Christ's miracles, refused to give Him any credit. They worked hard at removing any evidence supporting Jesus' Messiahship.

Kenny · Aug 6, 2018

Riders said:
Theres no proof he ever was raised from the dead. We would have so many written reports and records outside of the bible it would be unbelievable.

I don't think so.

It isn't like there was a telegraph or a newspaper. Not to mention also, that the "supernatural" was accepted.

But it was impactful enough that about 3,000 believed on the first day of preaching; 5,000 a few days later and it spread like wildfire. i think that is proof enough

If you think about it, all they would have to do is produce the body and the story would disappear.

nPeace · Aug 6, 2018

Hockeycowboy said:
No, not really. Most people would've been very skeptical, like today....very few writers of the time, with established reputations would have written about something so hard to believe, on just the testimony of eyewitnesses, most of whom were common Jews.

So, having no contemporary reports is not surprising!

Even the Pharisees, who saw Christ's miracles, refused to give Him any credit. They worked hard at removing any evidence supporting Jesus' Messiahship.

I think people were so familiar with "power of the gods", it was nothing out of the ordinary - as it is today.
People being under demonic possession was normal.
People performing powerful signs was normal.

It's the same thing as with war.
People in ancient times were so familiar with barbarism that chopping off heads was nothing to be shocked about.
To do that in front of most people today would be horror.

That's why I believe, ISIS is so calm about it. They are of an ancient tribe that pass down their traditions.

Powerful works in the past were accepted.
So when the Pharisees credited Beelzebub with the miracles Jesus performed, they just said to themselves, 'Well yeah. He is nothing special."

Deeje · Aug 6, 2018

Jainarayan said:
Solomon was a pagan? Abraham? Jacob?

When did Abraham and Jacob live? Jacob's descendants were yet to become the nation of Israel. So we are talking about Patriarchal times. Outstanding individuals among mankind at that time showed faith in God. Abraham was chosen to begin a spiritual journey that would result in one nation having God's laws and leaving a written record of God's dealings with that nation and his promise of a redeemer who would be produced by that nation.

Solomon was an Israelite, being the son of King David, so definitely not a pagan. It helps to know what time periods these people lived in.

Bob the Unbeliever · Aug 6, 2018

KenS said:
(not to mention they didn't have a sexual relationship.)

So how on EARTH did she get pregnant? Hmmmm?

Magic?

Riders · Aug 6, 2018

KenS said:
I don't think so.

It isn't like there was a telegraph or a newspaper. Not to mention also, that the "supernatural" was accepted.

But it was impactful enough that about 3,000 believed on the first day of preaching; 5,000 a few days later and it spread like wildfire. i think that is proof enough

If you think about it, all they would have to do is produce the body and the story would disappear.

There is tons of records written back then even from the Egyptians, we have a lot .

Kenny · Aug 7, 2018

Bob the Unbeliever said:
So how on EARTH did she get pregnant? Hmmmm?

Magic?

The same all substance is made up of. The power of wave lengths or, as it is written, He spoke.

What are Matter Waves?

No magic is necessary because "The Word of His Power" is all that is needed.

Kenny · Aug 7, 2018

Riders said:
There is tons of records written back then even from the Egyptians, we have a lot .

Yes... The Egyptians wrote what the Pharaohs did, not what the Israelites did... The Apostles wrote what Jesus did, not what the Egyptians did.

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 7, 2018

KenS said:
If you think about it, all they would have to do is produce the body and the story would disappear.

Why do you think anyone would have had that thought process?

First off, you’re assuming the stories happened as written and that the Resurrection wasn’t a later embellishment.

Then you’re assuming that the authorities knew that the Resurrection myth was circulating. What indication do you have that this was the case?

And if even the tomb was empty and the authorities were aware, a very non-supernatural explanation would be obvious: that Jesus’s followers opened the tomb, stole the body, and hid it someplace else.

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 7, 2018

KenS said:
Yes... The Egyptians wrote what the Pharaohs did, not what the Israelites did... The Apostles wrote what Jesus did, not what the Egyptians did.

So Egyptian records should include, say, the Ten Plagues of Egypt and how the Pharaoh of the time responded to them?

Kenny · Aug 7, 2018

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Why do you think anyone would have had that thought process?

Because of current explosive political hotbed between the Pontius Pilate and the Jewish people in Jerusalem, especially since there was the statement that the Jews and a new King. it was because of this very problem that Pilate was forced to crucify Jesus in the first place.

First off, you’re assuming the stories happened as written and that the Resurrection wasn’t a later embellishment.

no need to assume. Luke, besides being a meticulous doctor, was also wrote a clear and concise history.

Then you’re assuming that the authorities knew that the Resurrection myth was circulating. What indication do you have that this was the case?

Absolutely. Again, the political hotbed. see below

And if even the tomb was empty and the authorities were aware, a very non-supernatural explanation would be obvious: that Jesus’s followers opened the tomb, stole the body, and hid it someplace else.

The Romans had place soldiers to make sure no-one took the body. Customarily, the soldiers would be executed for failing to follow orders--a good motivation to make sure they did their job. Also, the reason why" the authorities knew the Resurrection... ... was circulating".

Kenny · Aug 7, 2018

9-10ths_Penguin said:
So Egyptian records should include, say, the Ten Plagues of Egypt and how the Pharaoh of the time responded to them?

If you wanted that recorded into history as your legacy.

Does Hillary want all of her emails recorded into historical evidence? Or does she erase some 30,000+ of them.

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 7, 2018

KenS said:
If you wanted that recorded into history as your legacy.

What "that?" That the Pharaoh successfully led his people through great difficulty?

That whichever Egyptian god they attributed the plagues to was displeased with Egypt, but after the Pharaoah instructed the High Priest to make the proper incantations and sacrifices, order was restored and further punishment was thwarted?

You really think that there's no possible way for an Egyptian pharaoh to spin the story?

Kenny · Aug 7, 2018

9-10ths_Penguin said:
What "that?" That the Pharaoh successfully led his people through great difficulty?

That whichever Egyptian god they attributed the plagues to was displeased with Egypt, but after the Pharaoah instructed the High Priest to make the proper incantations and sacrifices, order was restored and further punishment was thwarted?

You really think that there's no possible way for an Egyptian pharaoh to spin the story?

??? What story are you spinning? We are talking about why it isn't even listed. Why would you list your faults when the monuments you are creating are for your "good memories"?

Bob the Unbeliever · Aug 7, 2018

KenS said:
The same all substance is made up of. The power of wave lengths or, as it is written, He spoke.

What are Matter Waves?
.

Yes, yes-- all matter/energy is made of particles. Does that include your god as well?

If not, what IS your god made of? Magic? Let's see your "answer":

KenS said:
No magic is necessary.....

Really?

KenS said:
because "The Word of His Power" is all that is needed.

Aaaaaaannnnnnd you just invoked MAGIC. AGAIN.

Bob the Unbeliever · Aug 7, 2018

KenS said:
Yes... The Egyptians wrote what the Pharaohs did, not what the Israelites did... The Apostles wrote what Jesus did, not what the Egyptians did.

The Egyptians were meticulous record-keepers. Very meticulous-- they included the annual sales of olive oil (for example).

No mention -- ever -- of large numbers of Hebrew Slaves. In the entire written history of Egypt.

No mention -- ever -- of large numbers of slaves (of any brand) escaping. In all the history of Egypt.

And yes, they did record defeats, and failures, so that lame excuse simply does not fly. (the excuse being that they don't record fails-- false)

The fact is? EXODUS NEVER TOOK PLACE, BECAUSE THE HEBREWS WERE NEVER IN EGYPT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Jainarayan · Aug 7, 2018

Deeje said:
I get the distinct impression that some posters on this thread, who probably don't believe that Jesus existed, have no reason to believe the Bible, and don't even believe in God, have a awful lot to assume about what they don't believe in ......go figure.

Who are they trying to convince I wonder?

I think they need to be careful about who laughs last.

And I continue to wonder why those who do believe in Jesus and the God of the Bible fight so strenuously, shriek so loudly and jump through flaming hoops to prove they do exist. Whom are these people trying to convince? Those of us who follow other paths don't (need to) do that. People call my God a 'false God', or that I'm being led astray by demons.

That's fine if they believe that, I know otherwise. My relationship with him is not to prove his existence or woo others to him. It's between me and him. If someone is interested, I'll explain as much as I can. If someone begins to challenge me and my beliefs, then I shut down the conversation. There is no leg lifting contest to see whose God can beat up whose God, or will the real God please stand up.

Hockeycowboy · Aug 7, 2018

nPeace said:
I think people were so familiar with "power of the gods", it was nothing out of the ordinary - as it is today.
People being under demonic possession was normal.
People performing powerful signs was normal.

It's the same thing as with war.
People in ancient times were so familiar with barbarism that chopping off heads was nothing to be shocked about.
To do that in front of most people today would be horror.

That's why I believe, ISIS is so calm about it. They are of an ancient tribe that pass down their traditions.

Powerful works in the past were accepted.
So when the Pharisees credited Beelzebub with the miracles Jesus performed, they just said to themselves, 'Well yeah. He is nothing special."

You know, you’re right, to a point.

Many were open to paranormal events, considering them “power of the gods” as you stated. But I think resurrections, ie., bringing people back to life, would have been too hard for nonwitnesses to accept. Satan could perform many miracles (deceptively getting people to think their god did it), but raising the dead was / is beyond his ability. Spirit is needed for life, and only Jehovah has that. —Ecclesiastes 12:7

And giving that ability (to resurrect) only to His Son. — John 6:44; Matthew 28:18
Thank goodness for that, huh?

Bob the Unbeliever · Aug 7, 2018

KenS said:
Because of current explosive political hotbed between the Pontius Pilate and the Jewish people in Jerusalem, especially since there was the statement that the Jews and a new King. it was because of this very problem that Pilate was forced to crucify Jesus in the first place.

Your problem here-- and it is a LARGE problem-- is that you have NO records of such a crucifixion (apart from your claim, bible--which you cannot use as proof of itself).

The "crucifixion of Jesus" is not recorded anywhere else. That makes the entire narrative highly doubtful.

Especially considering the very oldest versions of the Gospels do not contain resurrection at all.

Why Believe Jesus Never Had Sex?

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