God's Standard of Purity

Shadow Wolf · Oct 30, 2017

sayak83 said:
Yes. God's requirements are both too demanding and frankly immoral. In fact God should not have any requirements whatsoever.

I find it peculiar that many humans have been willing to give a human a chance and forgive them their mistakes because they are human, but god does nothing to really fix the problem (he more treats the symptom than the disease) and expects certain things of us or else he will not forgive us. God made a faulty product. He just needs to admit it rather than expecting us to accept his shortcomings.

DavidFirth said:
God is holy. It does not matter what we prefer, it matters what He prefers.

Doesn't that seem rather tyrannical to you?

9-10ths_Penguin · Oct 30, 2017

DavidFirth said:
Matthew 13
24Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

So...

- "the enemy" does his work without the sower's knowledge until it's too late?
- the sower is in no way responsible for the enemy?
- the sower is incapable of removing the weeds and not the wheat (i.e. much less capable than a modern farmer)?

sayak83 · Oct 30, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
I find it peculiar that many humans have been willing to give a human a chance and forgive them their mistakes because they are human, but god does nothing to really fix the problem (he more treats the symptom than the disease) and expects certain things of us or else he will not forgive us. God made a faulty product. He just needs to admit it rather than expecting us to accept his shortcomings.

Doesn't that seem rather tyrannical to you?

Obviously I believe in a different kind of God. Neither do I believe that God created a faulty product in us, or He is disappointed in any way whatsoever. There is absolutely no alienation between us and God, nothing that requires being saved from.

DavidFirth · Oct 30, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
Doesn't that seem rather tyrannical to you?

No. What He prefers is always best.

DavidFirth · Oct 30, 2017

9-10ths_Penguin said:
So...

- "the enemy" does his work without the sower's knowledge until it's too late?
- the sower is in no way responsible for the enemy?
- the sower is incapable of removing the weeds and not the wheat (i.e. much less capable than a modern farmer)?

Now all you've got to do is prove abiogenesis, macro-evolution and millions of years and you're on your way!

9-10ths_Penguin · Oct 30, 2017

DavidFirth said:
Now all you've got to do is prove abiogenesis, macro-evolution and millions of years and you're on your way!

Care to actually answer the questions? Did Satan manage to sneak past God and plant all those sinful "weeds" when God wasn't looking, or did God watch what was happening and do nothing to stop Satan?

Shadow Wolf · Oct 30, 2017

DavidFirth said:
No. What He prefers is always best.

At worst, that can apply to Chairman Mao. At best, a parent who is too lazy to think things out and explain things to a child so they resort to "because I said so."

sayak83 · Oct 30, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
At worst, that can apply to Chairman Mao. At best, a parent who is too lazy to think things out and explain things to a child so they resort to "because I said so."

Or, any response a North Korean would give in public regarding their "dear leader". Threats of eternal torment does that to people, along with bogeyman fears about the "great Satan".

Hockeycowboy · Oct 30, 2017

Altfish said:
List provided here...
Examples of God personally killing people - RationalWiki
...3 million might be a low estimate

I hope you are not implying that if god had warned them it is still ok to kill babies and children!!

Yep, they were warned. They should have made the right decision.

Three questions:
1.Can God read hearts, or not?
2.Does God have the right to tell His intelligent creation how to live?
3. (Most important) is this life all there is, or will these people get a chance to live again? -- Acts of the Apostles 24:15

Altfish · Oct 30, 2017

Hockeycowboy said:
Yep, they were warned. They should have made the right decision.

Three questions:
1.Can God read hearts, or not?
2.Does God have the right to tell His intelligent creation how to live?
3. (Most important) is this life all there is, or will these people get a chance to live again? -- Acts of the Apostles 24:15

So, how does a 3-month old baby make the right decision?

Answers: -
1. What is there to read in a hear? A heart is a pump??
2. Well if you believe that (I don't), like a computer player controls the Simms , yes your creator can do what he wants.
3. It is the one life they have.
(btw quoting bible verses does not impress an atheist, would you be impressed by a Sam Harris quote?)

DavidFirth · Oct 30, 2017

Shadow Wolf said:
At worst, that can apply to Chairman Mao. At best, a parent who is too lazy to think things out and explain things to a child so they resort to "because I said so."

DavidFirth · Oct 30, 2017

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Care to actually answer the questions? Did Satan manage to sneak past God and plant all those sinful "weeds" when God wasn't looking, or did God watch what was happening and do nothing to stop Satan?

Well, what do you think?

DavidFirth · Oct 30, 2017

9-10ths_Penguin said:
So...

- "the enemy" does his work without the sower's knowledge until it's too late?
- the sower is in no way responsible for the enemy?
- the sower is incapable of removing the weeds and not the wheat (i.e. much less capable than a modern farmer)?

Those are your conclusions?

Shadow Wolf · Oct 30, 2017

DavidFirth said:

Saying what someone wants is always best isn't an admirable trait of the one demanding it be viewed that way. "Do it my way because I know best" are the words of those who demand respect and their authority not be challenged. We call them dictators and tyrants. We say their style is authoritarian. They are the words of abusers, and those who demand respect and obedience rather than work for it.

Hockeycowboy · Oct 30, 2017

Altfish said:
(btw quoting bible verses does not impress an atheist, would you be impressed by a Sam Harris quote?)

A religious forum is a place to discuss and debate various religious ideas. If you don't want to be open minded, that sort of inhibits reasonable discussion, don't you think?

And give me a Same Harris quote, we have a few things in common. I also am a critic of most religion, as you could see if you'd care to read my previous posts. Religion for the most part has been a bane to Society.

Altfish · Oct 30, 2017

Hockeycowboy said:
A religious forum is a place to discuss and debate various religious ideas. If you don't want to be open minded, that sort of inhibits reasonable discussion, don't you think?

And give me a Same Harris quote, we have a few things in common. I also am a critic of most religion, as you could see if you'd care to read my previous posts. Religion for the most part has been a bane to Society.

An atheist not being open-minded...pots and kettles come to mind.
I didn't say you couldn't quote bible verses, but they carry little or no weight in an argument with an atheist. Use them all you want.
A Sam Harris quote...
“Religious moderation is the product of secular knowledge and scriptural ignorance.”
― Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

Hockeycowboy · Oct 30, 2017

Altfish said:
An atheist not being open-minded...pots and kettles come to mind.
I didn't say you couldn't quote bible verses, but they carry little or no weight in an argument with an atheist. Use them all you want.
A Sam Harris quote...
“Religious moderation is the product of secular knowledge and scriptural ignorance.”
― Sam Harris, The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason

Thanks for the quote! Do you understand the meaning? Who is he claiming has "scriptural ignorance"?

Here's another Sam Harris quote:

"The Bible, it seems certain, was the work of sand-strewn men and women who thought the earth was flat and for whom a wheelbarrow would have been a breathtaking example of emerging technology."

Actually, one Bible writer said the Earth was a sphere, and another wrote that the Earth is "suspended on nothing."

(How in the world would the writer have known that, let alone believe it was even possible?!)

Who seems to be Scripturally ignorant in this instance? I can give you further quotes from him that highlight his ignorance of what the Bible really teaches....but I doubt that you're interested.

Take care, my cousin. Wish you the best.

Akivah · Oct 30, 2017

InChrist said:
There is a lot in the Bible which reveal that God as Creator has standards of purity which don't allow for corruption or anything less than clean, pure perfection. Is God being too demanding? So often, it seems like God is accused of having requirements which are too high or that He should be a little lax or accept what He would classify as disgusting, gross substandard quality... yet, people don't so easily drop their standards.

What do you think?

There is not a single place in the books of Moses in which G-d asks for perfection. G-d created us imperfectly, so He's not about to hold us to standards that we are unable to do. Deuteronomy tells us that we are able to do the laws.

Consider that among the Laws G-d gave us, are the laws of atonement. G-d knows that we will all make mistakes and gave us a methodology to atone for our mistakes.

Akivah · Oct 30, 2017

Altfish said:
List provided here...
Examples of God personally killing people - RationalWiki
...3 million might be a low estimate

What about the trillions of beings and life forms that G-d created and continues to create?

Altfish said:
I hope you are not implying that if god had warned them it is still ok to kill babies and children!!

There is no place in the Tanakh that states we are guaranteed a long life. So all you have is a strawman standard.

Altfish · Oct 30, 2017

Hockeycowboy said:
Thanks for the quote! Do you understand the meaning? Who is he claiming has "scriptural ignorance"?

Here's another Sam Harris quote:

"The Bible, it seems certain, was the work of sand-strewn men and women who thought the earth was flat and for whom a wheelbarrow would have been a breathtaking example of emerging technology."

Actually, one Bible writer said the Earth was a sphere, and another wrote that the Earth is "suspended on nothing."

(How in the world would the writer have known that, let alone believe it was even possible?!)

Who seems to be Scripturally ignorant in this instance? I can give you further quotes from him that highlight his ignorance of what the Bible really teaches....but I doubt that you're interested.

Take care, my cousin. Wish you the best.

I thought god wrote the bible? So how come only "one Bible writer said the Earth was a sphere, and another wrote that the Earth is "suspended on nothing.""
Suspended indicate hanging, it could be sat on something.
The Bible is so poorly written that it can be interpreted in numerous ways.

I would be interested in your Sam Harris ignorance examples.

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