Is Jesus God?

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 7, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
Ok, so God is a Spirit, that has a Spirit?

John 4:24 (ESV Strong's) 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Matthew 3:16 (ESV Strong's) 16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him;

Romans 8:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

What about the Spirit of Christ?

Romans 8:9 (ESV Strong's) 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

1 Peter 1:11 (ESV Strong's) 11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.

Not really sure I understand all your questions. But let me try to answer what I think you are asking.

The Spirit of Messiah is the Spirit of God. Look how it was used in Romans 8:9.

I Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
I Corinthians 6:16 ...your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit...

II Corinthians 6:16 for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, ...

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 9, 2017

Katzpur said:
The scriptures also teach that God is Jesus Christ and that He is the Eternal Father. The problem appears to be that people cannot seem to agree on the implications of these things. I mean, I know what I believe and I know that other people believe differently, and we're all using the same scriptures. By the way, I've been trying to figure out from your posts if you are a member of any particular Christian denomination, but I've been unable to. Mind if I ask?

But, the scriptures also teach that there is only one God. So somehow you have to reconcile all these things. There should be harmony in the scriptures, and they don't contradict each other when you get it right. (However there are places where translators have introduced errors. )

I have used scriptures to show in other posts that the Father is the Holy Spirit. (Mary was with child of the Holy Spirit) So when the Messiah talks about his Father which person does he mean? Does he have 2 Fathers? The Trinitarian viewpoint is not taught or mentioned by any inspired writer in the scriptures. When someone takes the position that God is a Trinity, they can't even answer simple questions without getting tied up in knots. They have to contradict themselves, although they won't usually admit it. And they end up saying ridiculous things, like the Messiah is 100% God and 100% man.

I don't want to give out a lot of personal information. But, I don't attend a so called mainstream denomination. I said Apostolic, because we believe what the apostles taught.

Magus · Aug 9, 2017

1 Corinthians 1:4 writes 'Χριστῷ' which is Attic Greek, thus historical fiction

Isaiah 45:1 οὕτως λέγει κύριος ὁ θεὸς τῷ χριστῷ μου Κύρῳ
- - Thus said Jehovah, To His Messiah, to Cyrus

Is Cyrus God? that is the real question.

Katzpur · Aug 9, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
But, the scriptures also teach that there is only one God. So somehow you have to reconcile all these things. There should be harmony in the scriptures, and they don't contradict each other when you get it right. (However there are places where translators have introduced errors. )

I agree.

I don't want to give out a lot of personal information. But, I don't attend a so called mainstream denomination. I said Apostolic, because we believe what the apostles taught.

I would say that I, too, believe what the Apostles taught, so one of us must be wrong. But thank you, at any rate, for the courteous manner in which you conduct yourself. Even if we don't see eye to eye on doctrine, I appreciate your civility and the fact that you at least respond to questions posed to you.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 10, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
But, the scriptures also teach that there is only one God. So somehow you have to reconcile all these things.

The United States has 'one' military, does that mean only one person is this military? There is 'one' law enforcement, does that mean there's only one cop? Somehow, we must reconcile these things!

djhwoodwerks · Aug 10, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
But, the scriptures also teach that there is only one God. So somehow you have to reconcile all these things. There should be harmony in the scriptures, and they don't contradict each other when you get it right. (However there are places where translators have introduced errors. )

If God is 'one', why would Jesus include all three in baptism?

Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Why complicate it, why not just say, "baptizing in the name of God"?

And to further make my point, Jesus said to, "baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, what was the name Peter baptized in?

Acts 2:38 (ESV Strong's) 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 (ESV Strong's) 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 (ESV Strong's) 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Did Peter misunderstand?

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 10, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
The United States has 'one' military, does that mean only one person is this military? There is 'one' law enforcement, does that mean there's only one cop? Somehow, we must reconcile these things!

No - But do you pick one person out of the military, and say there is our United States military? That individual is a part of the military, so are you saying each of the persons of the Trinity is just a 1/3 of God?

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 10, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
If God is 'one', why would Jesus include all three in baptism?

Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Why complicate it, why not just say, "baptizing in the name of God"?

And to further make my point, Jesus said to, "baptize in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, what was the name Peter baptized in?

Acts 2:38 (ESV Strong's) 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 (ESV Strong's) 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 (ESV Strong's) 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Did Peter misunderstand?

Do you hear yourself? You mean you don't believe in one God? (you said If God is one, and - all three?)

If Peter thought he meant to use 3 titles, why didn't he teach that? Did they ever baptize anyone in the book of Acts using 3 titles or 3 names?
Peter told them to be baptized in the name (singular).

When you understand that the Father is the Holy Spirit, and that the Messiah was both the Father and the Son as prophesied in Isaiah 9:6, then this will line up with Mark and Luke's accounts, that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name. That is what Peter taught in Acts 2:38

Mark and Luke, also have accounts of this same event. Matthews account has to be in harmony, and mean the same thing.

I guess the question is really for you - Did Peter misunderstand? Look at what he taught, and all the examples of baptisms in the book of Acts.

I will say the name Jesus has been translated inaccurately in our scriptures. His real name is YHWSH. He had the same name Joshua the son of Nun, the successor to Moses had.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 10, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
Do you hear yourself? You mean you don't believe in one God? (you said If God is one, and - all three?)

Hear myself? Did you HEAR me?

I believe in one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

What I'm pointing out is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit was given to Jesus, because that's what name Peter baptized in and commanded to baptize in!

TrueBeliever37 said:
When you understand that the Father is the Holy Spirit,

When I understand? I think you need understanding on Who the Father is!

John 14:26 (ESV Strong's) 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

The Father sending Himself? Looks like two different persons to me! How bout you?

djhwoodwerks · Aug 10, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
No - But do you pick one person out of the military, and say there is our United States military? That individual is a part of the military, so are you saying each of the persons of the Trinity is just a 1/3 of God?

Yes I do, because that one person IS our military!!

Nope, all 3 are equally God.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 10, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
Yes I do, because that one person IS our military!!

Nope, all 3 are equally God.

You are contradicting your post #2265 (Look at what you said in your military question)

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 10, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
When I understand? I think you need understanding on Who the Father is!

John 14:26 (ESV Strong's) 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

The Father sending Himself? Looks like two different persons to me! How bout you?

I Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
I Corinthians 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, ...
So the the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit.

I Corinthians 8:76 But to us there is but one God, the Father...
And since the Father is the only God, then the Holy Spirit is the Father. Which agrees with Matthew 1:18-20 - she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
That makes the Holy Spirit the Father.

God said I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh. So yes he would be sending it.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 11, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
Hear myself? Did you HEAR me?

I believe in one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit!

What I'm pointing out is the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit was given to Jesus, because that's what name Peter baptized in and commanded to baptize in!

When I said - Do you hear yourself? I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I was just trying to get you to look at what you were actually saying. So please don't take offense, as none was intended.

If you believe in one God, then I didn't understand why you said: "If God is 'one', why would Jesus include all three in baptism."

If I understand you correctly, then you believe the Son is God - right?
If so, please answer the following questions:

1. Why did he need to pray to anyone to begin with?
2. Why did he say the son can do nothing of himself?
3. How was he tempted, since God can't be tempted?
4. How did he die, since God can't die?
5. Since God is a Spirit and invisible, how could you see him?
6.Can you show me just one scripture where a man of God taught that there is a triune God or three persons in the Godhead or a Trinity?

In my previous posts, you didn't really answer my questions, please answer as many of these as you can. (Please provide scriptures if possible, to back up any answers.)

djhwoodwerks · Aug 11, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
The United States has 'one' military, does that mean only one person is this military? There is 'one' law enforcement, does that mean there's only one cop? Somehow, we must reconcile these things!

djhwoodwerks said:
Yes I do, because that one person IS our military!!

Nope, all 3 are equally God.

TrueBeliever37 said:
You are contradicting your post #2265 (Look at what you said in your military question)

It sure did, my apologies. Post 2265 was written hastily, as I was being rushed by my daughter to get her to work. My post 2270 is my correct view.

When I, and I'm sure most people, see someone they believe to be in the military, will ask them,'are you military'? I have never asked, 'are you a person in the military'? I've had conversations with people and when asked what they do, they say, "I'm military", not, 'I'm in the military', not all but most, some say what branch they're in.

So, just like God has 3 individual members, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, collectively they are God.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 11, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
When I said - Do you hear yourself? I wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I was just trying to get you to look at what you were actually saying. So please don't take offense, as none was intended.

No offense taken, and I mean no disrespect. Things that are written can be easily seen as rude or disrespectful, because the persons face can't be seen and the tone of their voice can't been heard, sometimes it's hard to tell the emotions of commenters.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 11, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
And since the Father is the only God, then the Holy Spirit is the Father. Which agrees with Matthew 1:18-20 - she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
That makes the Holy Spirit the Father.

Since you believe that the Father "IS" the Holy Spirit, what is your view of this verse?

Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus made clear distinction between the Father and Holy Spirit, He mentioned them both.

djhwoodwerks · Aug 11, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
If I understand you correctly, then you believe the Son is God - right?
If so, please answer the following questions:

1. Why did he need to pray to anyone to begin with?
2. Why did he say the son can do nothing of himself?
3. How was he tempted, since God can't be tempted?
4. How did he die, since God can't die?
5. Since God is a Spirit and invisible, how could you see him?
6.Can you show me just one scripture where a man of God taught that there is a triune God or three persons in the Godhead or a Trinity?

Yes, I believe the Son is God also.

1. Because He came to earth as flesh, He was human.

Philippians 2:5-8 (ESV Strong's) 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

2. Philippians 2:5-8

3. Philippians 2:5-8

4. Philippians 2:5-8

5. Philippians 2:5-8

6. Matthew 28:19 (ESV Strong's) 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Three separate persons, one name!

djhwoodwerks · Aug 11, 2017

TrueBeliever37 said:
If I understand you correctly, then you believe the Son is God - right?

Whom do you believe is to come back for the church, God or Jesus?

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 11, 2017

Katzpur said:
I agree.

I would say that I, too, believe what the Apostles taught, so one of us must be wrong. But thank you, at any rate, for the courteous manner in which you conduct yourself. Even if we don't see eye to eye on doctrine, I appreciate your civility and the fact that you at least respond to questions posed to you.

Thanks - I appreciate it that you were civil also. At some point in the future I may ask you to explain what your views are. I am genuinely interested.

TrueBeliever37 · Aug 11, 2017

djhwoodwerks said:
It sure did, my apologies. Post 2265 was written hastily, as I was being rushed by my daughter to get her to work. My post 2270 is my correct view.

When I, and I'm sure most people, see someone they believe to be in the military, will ask them,'are you military'? I have never asked, 'are you a person in the military'? I've had conversations with people and when asked what they do, they say, "I'm military", not, 'I'm in the military', not all but most, some say what branch they're in.

So, just like God has 3 individual members, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, collectively they are God.

So are you saying they are each one God individually or collectively?
If individually they are each one God, that would mean 3 Gods.
If collectively they are one God, that would mean each one would only be part of the one God. (But you have already said this wasn't the case.)

But yet, you said above that collectively they are God. If it takes all 3 collectively to be the one God, then no one of them alone would be God.

Is Jesus God?

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