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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Orbit, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe for Jesus to be a demigod his father must have been a god and therefore human but his Father is God, The Holy Spirit and not human.
     
  2. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Hi TrueBeliever37, something I only learned recently that might be helpful to know. Many christians who defend the Trinity, primarily have an issue with people trying to claim that Jesus is not God. IOW they perceive an attack on the trinity as equivalent to denying that Christ is God. Which I noticed you believe in as well. This helped me to realise that I was more in agreement with Trinitarian believers than I was with those who oppose it. My main issue with it being the wording of "3 persons". However I would agree with the Trinitarian statement that the Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is God, and the Father is God.

    How bout you?
     
  3. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    I believe the Father is the Holy Spirit, which is God, and that the Spirit of God was dwelling in the fleshly body of the Messiah. So, it is not 3 different persons. YHWH came down and dwelt in a fleshly body.
     
  4. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Yeah, me too. :) Although I also noticed something else about the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was talking to His disciples at the end of John. Things he says that suggest that He was the Holy Spirit as well. Let me just find them...

    "I will not leave you comfortless (G3737 orphanos): I will come to you." John 14:18

    The KJV translates this same word in James 1:27:

    "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless (G3737 orphanos) and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." James 1:27

    So it could be said that Jesus was saying:

    "I will not leave you fatherless (or orphans): I will come to you." John 14:18
     
  5. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    If I understand you correctly, we are at least close to being in agreement on this. Let me explain a little differently and see if you still agree.

    There is only one God. That one God is a Spirit. There is only one Spirit, and that Spirit is holy. So, that one God is the Holy Spirit, which is the Father. Which means the Father and the Holy Spirit are not 2 different persons. (It is just two different titles for one and the same Spirit.)

    Since God is a Spirit, he didn't have flesh and blood to shed for man's sin. He looked out across the expanse of time, and saw that there would never be a man that would be able to live a life free from sin, and be able to be the perfect sacrifice. So, he said my arm is not shortened, I will do the job myself. I will bring salvation.

    God didn't have a body with blood to shed. So he overshadowed the virgin Mary, and made himself a body to dwell in. The body was born of a woman, so it could be called the son of man. The eternal Spirit was the Father of the body, so the body could also be called the son of God. But God didn't turn himself into a man. He made himself a body like ours to dwell in, and sacrifice. (So the Messiah was both, the Father and the Son.) That is why he said things like, I and my Father are one, and if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

    The Spirit of God, dwelling in the body could not be killed, but the fleshly body itself could be killed, and could be tempted. Because the flesh was weak, Satan tried to tempt the flesh to sin, which would stop the plan of God. The flesh would pray to the Spirit for strength to overcome. The Messiah lived a sinless life, was crucified, and the eternal Spirit raised the body from the dead. He ascended and took the throne as God Almighty.
     
  6. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Wow, amazing! I have never heard such a perfect description as this. Was exciting to read and made me a little weepy at the same time. Thanks for sharing it. I'm gonna save it to my computer so I don't lose it. Truly beautiful.
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Is Jesus God.

    Yes Jesus is God in the flesh.

    God made all humans with a soul, and in encased the soul inside the body of flesh.

    God made himself a body of flesh, and in encased Himself in side the body of flesh Jesus.
    And there you have Jesus is God in the flesh body of Jesus.
     
  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    To answer your question, Jesus is not just a mere man, As we are.

    God made himself a body of flesh, and then God encased Himself in side the body of flesh of Jesus.

    There you have Jesus is God in the flesh body of Jesus.
     
  9. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    Thanks for the comments - You made my day. I love it when someone is able to understand the truth. The scripture says no man knows who the Father is but the Son, and no man knows who the Son is but the Father, and he to whomsoever he chooses to reveal him. So if you can understand it, it is only because God reveals it to you.
     
  10. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    So true. Your post was so inspiring that I shared it with my mum and she reminded me of that verse that we all know very well. And that is the Word that was with God and was God, became flesh and dwelt among us. So even the Flesh body itself was God. (John 1:1 & 14) It was something I had never put together before despite knowing those verses really well. So yeah, I think it's so true, He has to reveal it or we just don't see it. I think that's true of a lot of Scripture.
     
  11. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    I can't agree with you that the flesh itself was God. If that was the case, how could he be tempted, and how could he die? - since God can't be tempted and can't die?
     
  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Jesu God, Adon'ai, [Jesus in Spirit form, superceding all texts and speculation
    Henotheism?

    Does this prevent you from praying etc in Jesus's name?
    Baptizing in Jesus's name?:)
     
  13. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    My mum posed the same questions to me when I shared this with her. And look I could be wrong and am willing to be wrong but I'm not sure that I am. In some way His flesh seems different to ours, and maybe that difference is that His flesh was clothed with the Spirit of God like the First Adam's was until he sinned. In that way He was able to be tempted but without sin:

    "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:" Romans 8:3

    Regarding His death, recall that Jesus said:

    "And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him." John 8:29

    But on the cross He said:

    "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

    Is it possible that His Flesh was unclothed at this point, enabling Him to die?

    "Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand." Isaiah 53:10

    "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Isaiah 53:6

    This was the revelation I had about the virgin birth. That the seed/sperm that formed the body of Jesus was not in any part put there by man but wholly conceived by God. The Body, the Soul and the Spirit.

    "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Philippians 2:6-8

    "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed (H3335), neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:10-11

    Note that the word formed (H3335) is the same one used when God formed Adam from the dust of the ground:

    "And the LORD God formed (H3335) man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

    These are the thoughts I ponder when considering the body of Jesus. Maybe you might see an error in them that I can't. Maybe scriptures that I might not have considered? Coz I definitely can't think of any if there are some. I might share this with my mum as well and see if she comes up with anything.

    It's really great sharing with you.
    I'm enjoying the friendly discussion. :)
     
  14. TrueBeliever37

    TrueBeliever37 Active Member

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    Hebrews 2:14-17 gives the answer. Verse 2:14 says as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same. Verse 2:16 ...but he took on the seed of Abraham. Verse 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren ...

    So he had a fleshly body just like ours, subject to pain, suffering, sickness, temptation, even death.
     
  15. JesusBeliever

    JesusBeliever Active Member

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    Absolutely! And what I shared was not at all intended to negate this fact. This is the same objection my mum initially had, mentioning that some people believe that because He was God in the flesh He couldn't feel pain, temptation or sorrow. This is not at all what I believe, despite believing what I shared above:

    "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:5-11
     
  16. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I have a problem with the wording also because it is confusing to a lay person. However I can see the logic in it. Jesus is a person in that He is in a body and that makes Him different from the Father who does not have a body and yet has a personality. The Paraclete often called the Holy Spirit is God in believers and for that reason it is more difficult to view Him as one person since He is in thousands of people but I suppose since it is the same Spirit in everyone maybe that oneness can be considered one person.
     
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  17. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe I don't know what Henotheism is.

    I believe there is no problem since Jesus is God in the flesh.
     
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